Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?

[Jellen]

I’m sorry for you. I think that you have fallen for a lot of fantastical claims about the Catholic Church and Billy Graham as well.

My husband grew up in the Assemblies of God. It’s not what it appears to be, either, and I pray that you will not find this out the hard way. The focus is not on Jesus, but on emotional “experiences” such as speaking in tongues and praise and worship music. This is not Jesus.

At least the Assemblies of God has a clear authority structure, unlike a lot of the non-denominational churches which are very confusing at times. You will learn that relying on the Bible does not work–you will find Christians in the Assemblies of God who use the Bible to justify or condemn all kinds of things, and these things will contradict each other, and you will be left confused and wondering just what Jesus really teaches.

You will also discover that even though there is a lot of outward appearance of “love” in the A of God, there are still plenty of people who do not demonstrate Christian charity and good-will to their fellow man.

I’m very sorry that you are taking this course, and I urge you to re-consider. Tim Staples, one of the apoligists with Catholic Answers, was a pastor in the Assemblies of God–I urge you to get hold of his CDs and/or books and do some more studying about Catholicism. Please don’t waste years of your life in the Protestant churches. I wish with all my heart that I had the first 47 years of my life back again to live as a Catholic Christian.

Thanks for your reply. I am not definite about the Assembly of God church. I may go to a Baptist one instead. The Assembly of God church is within walking distance. But then so is a Mormon temple and I know I’m not going there. I just don’t want to go to a Protestant church that is pro-abortion. I am frankly shocked that there are people here who are pro-choice. I am not judging anyone. I had an abortion when I was young and not so bright and involved in the New Age. I have regretted it all of my life. And I was never able to have children when I did marry late in life at age 40. I always thought the pro-life stance is one of the best things about the Catholic Church. Unfortunately there is much documentation about Billy Graham. I couldn’t believe it. Do a search on Billy Graham illuminati. There is also a well documented book about him. I am new here and don’t know if I can post links. I always thought of Billy Graham as a Protestant saint like Corrie Ten Boom and Joni Eareckson Tada.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Jellen:

I understand you want to be more focused on Christ Himself. And that is perfectly fine. That’s what Christianity - in all its forms - is supposed to be about. We have many devotions to Him, in many forms. The Sacred Heart. The Divine Mercy Chaplet. The Adoration of the Holy Eucharist, which is Christ physically present. The Stations of the Cross. Not to mention a fair share of litanies to the many different aspects of Christ.

There a fair list of devotions and prayers here:
catholic.org/clife/prayers/prayer.php?s=5

I think I can understand why some Protestants see Catholics as pagans, or statue worshippers. We have many devotions, to Saints, Angels, Mary, and to Our Lord. But they all stand and fall on Jesus and His Death and Resurrection. Without that, the Saints, Mary, and the Angels and all their devotions are worthless. Only by Christ’s absolute power and glory are the Saints, including Mary, glorified. Even then, they are only human, whereas Christ is human, AND Divine. Not even Mary, full of grace, sinless, could claim to be divine.

Please do some research FROM CATHOLIC SOURCES before condemning us as worshipping the Saints and Mary. Any wise Catholic will know they are powerless without Christ, source of all Good and Power. And since the Saints cooperated with Christ and His grace, they now cooperate in His divine plan, for now and eternity. He is the King, and the Saints are His royal subjects, from Peter to Polycarp, from Mary to Martin of Tours. All Saints are subject to Him. That is what the Church actually teaches and believes.

Do you follow?

 

[Jellen]

Jellen:

I understand you want to be more focused on Christ Himself. And that is perfectly fine. That’s what Christianity - in all its forms - is supposed to be about. We have many devotions to Him, in many forms. The Sacred Heart. The Divine Mercy Chaplet. The Adoration of the Holy Eucharist, which is Christ physically present. The Stations of the Cross. Not to mention a fair share of litanies to the many different aspects of Christ.

There a fair list of devotions and prayers here:
catholic.org/clife/prayers/prayer.php?s=5

I think I can understand why some Protestants see Catholics as pagans, or statue worshippers. We have many devotions, to Saints, Angels, Mary, and to Our Lord. But they all stand and fall on Jesus and His Death and Resurrection. Without that, the Saints, Mary, and the Angels and all their devotions are worthless. Only by Christ’s absolute power and glory are the Saints, including Mary, glorified. Even then, they are only human, whereas Christ is human, AND Divine. Not even Mary, full of grace, sinless, could claim to be divine.

Please do some research FROM CATHOLIC SOURCES before condemning us as worshipping the Saints and Mary. Any wise Catholic will know they are powerless without Christ, source of all Good and Power. And since the Saints cooperated with Christ and His grace, they now cooperate in His divine plan, for now and eternity. He is the King, and the Saints are His royal subjects, from Peter to Polycarp, from Mary to Martin of Tours. All Saints are subject to Him. That is what the Church actually teaches and believes.

Do you follow?

Please know that I am in no way condemning you. That is not my purpose here. I am only trying to figure out my own faith journey. I recently went over the 5 main tenets of Protestantism and found that I strongly agree with them all. They are Solus Christus, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, and Soli Deo Gloria. I guess I have been a closet Protestant all these years and had no idea. I didn’t mean to offend you. I am only trying to figure out what works for me. I did Stations of the Cross this am (not just for Lent) and am grateful to the Catholic church for that and many other things. I guess one thing that really surprised me was that Pope JP II had a motto “totus tuus” and that was directed toward Mary and not Jesus. There is a solemnity and a beauty to the Catholic Mass that I appreciate. I went to Mass this morning. I always considered myself a bit of a hybrid because I grew up Protestant and then was Catholic for 21 years. I can’t say that I will leave all of the Catholic faith behind. I still pray the Chaplet although I quit praying the Rosary years ago. I respect your right to be the religion that works for you. It just doesn’t work for me any more.

 

[JonNC]

Roy, the Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches do in fact support abortion. They support the reproductive rights coalition. There are many articles on it if you do a google search. The reason I did the search was that I read the book Unplanned by Abby Johnson and her Protestant church pretty much kicked her out after she left Planned Parenthood and became pro-life. It is a great book. I highly recommend it.

Document please where the LCMS supports abortion, or the so-called reproductive rights coalition.
How does this support abortion?

Q: What is the Missouri Synod’s view of abortion?
A: The LCMS believes that abortion is contrary to God’s Word and “is not a moral option except, except as a tragically unavoidable byproduct of medical procedures necessary to prevent the death of another human being, viz., the mother” (1979 Res. 3-02A). Official synodical resolutions and other materials on this topic are available from the Synod’s Commission on Theology and Church Relations (CTCR).

A link you might find interesting:
lutheransforlife.org/about/who-are-lutherans-for-life/

If the LCMS becomes pro-abortion, they won’t need to kick me out. I’ll be gone already.

Jon

 

[AmateurPianist]

The focus is not on Jesus, but on emotional “experiences” such as speaking in tongues and praise and worship music. This is not Jesus.

This is slanderous and NOT true.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Unfortunately there is much documentation about Billy Graham. I couldn’t believe it. Do a search on Billy Graham illuminati.

I have seen that material and that too is slanderous. Billy Graham is a good man.

What is with me. I haven’t been here in one month and find myself reacting quite strongly to posts that are blatantly not true and just slander other Christians. Maybe I need another month or more break.

 

[TarkanAttila]

I thought maybe you had said such things out of ignorance - gross ignorance - and I wished to give you correct information. I always wish others to have correct information, including myself. Speaking of which:

…I recently went over the 5 main tenets of Protestantism and found that I strongly agree with them all. They are Solus Christus, Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, and Soli Deo Gloria…

I think I can safely say that Sola Gratia, Soli Deo Gloria, and even possibly Sola Fide are Catholic and we are at not deference with the Protestants on these notions.

Sola Gratia (by grace alone are we saved) is absolutely true. Galatians 2:16-21 states this fairly succinctly. “If justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain.” (v21)

SOLA FIDE is incomplete but not quite wrong, either. Also within that passage, v19, Paul says that through the law he dies to the law and lives to God. Through the law he lives to God. We are not saved by works alone. Nor are we saved by faith plus works, exactly. We are saved by faith, and also good works done in faith.

Christ Himself said in His Sermon on the Mount:

[16]
So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
[17] Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18] For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20] For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

What I mean to say is that for the Catholic, if I understand correctly, we are NOT saved by faith AND good works.

But if our works are a willing response to God’s love, we are acting in faith, and our faith does save us. But as James says, “faith without works is dead”. Luther was not completely wrong to say our faith alone saves us. But it is wrong to say faith is mere belief. Faith is belief AND action in accord with that belief.

For instance it’s easy enough to say “I will not steal”. It’s difficult to follow through and not do so (for some). But it is easier and more worth doing if you say “I will not steal, for I love you Christ and trust you” and follow through. The first is what we accuse Protestants of doing. The second is what Protestants accuse us of doing. The third is what we are both trying to do, I think.​

So it is with Soli Deo Gratia. Christ praised many people in his time, including one centurion whose faith was greater than any in Israel (according to Matthew 8:8-16). But note: all of these praises were for faith in His or His Father, not for their great accomplishments. We know that the Pharisees were rebuked by Christ for their great actions but lacking faith.

The Saints are those whom Christ has, in like manner, complimented. And Sainthood in perfect compliment with SDG, as without God they would have no glory. The Saints are not glorious in their own right. They are the by-product of Christ’s promise of salvation: if any man is saved by God through Christ Jesus and His collaboration with His will, then this man must be in Heaven, bathing in the glory and splendour of God and His love.

Indeed, since all the Saints worked Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam (AMDG, “for the greater glory of God”), they are not glorious in their own right nor would they want to be. How abhorrent it would be to a Saint if a religion were started around them, praising them for being such good and righteous people! For all Saints are but examples of the faith Christ seeks from each of us, and they indeed are in Christ, a part of Him.

You need not venerate the Saints or even Mary to reach Christ Jesus. No man needs to.
But those who seek the help of the Church Victorious are right in doing so, as the Victorious have, through Christ, seen all that you could possibly have to deal with in the future. They work in Christ. They are of Christ. They give glory to Christ when they answer prayers for Him. Every Saint works Only for The Glory of God.

 

[JonNC]

=TarkanAttila;8371823]
SOLA FIDE is incomplete but not quite wrong, either. Also within that passage, v19, Paul says that through the law he dies to the law and lives to God. Through the law he lives to God. We are not saved by works alone. Nor are we saved by faith plus works, exactly. We are saved by faith, and also good works done in faith.

IOW, when we talk about being justified by faith (alone), we are talking about a Galatians 5faith - a faith that works through love.

What I mean to say is that for the Catholic, if I understand correctly, we are NOT saved by faith AND good works.

But if our works are a willing response to God’s love, we are acting in faith, and our faith does save us. But as James says, “faith without works is dead”. Luther was not completely wrong to say our faith alone saves us. **But it is wrong to say faith is mere belief. **Faith is belief AND action in accord with that belief.

Luther said justification is operative by faith alone, but faith is never alone, if it is a true, saving faith.

Jon

 

[Cat]

This is slanderous and NOT true.

Forgive me.

I was speaking anecdotally, and I should have made that clear. I should have phrased it like this: “It has been the experience of my husband and myself, as well as our extended family, that the emphasis in the Assemblies of God churches is on emotional “experiences” such as speaking in tongues and praise and worship music.”

AmateurPianist, I’m sure there are other Assemblies of God churches that are not like this. My husband’s family has been A of God for three generations, so there is quite a bit of experience in this denomination. His parents and brother and sister all left the denomination for several reasons, one of which was the emphasis on emotions, music, and “experiences.”

The large A of God church in our city (around 5000 members) has a weekly television show. I watch it often, as it is on when I am home working. It’s not very heavy. It is excellent for attracting people who know nothing about God, but for more mature Christians, it’s pretty light stuff.

But again, I wish to emphasize that I am basis my statement on my family’s experience, not on any studies or controlled research.

 

[Cat]

I have seen that material and that too is slanderous. Billy Graham is a good man.

What is with me. I haven’t been here in one month and find myself reacting quite strongly to posts that are blatantly not true and just slander other Christians. Maybe I need another month or more break.

Your signature is interesting. You don’t like the “hard-core Catholics,” but you like the “ecumenical, evangelical Catholics.”

Perhaps it would be good to define what you mean by these terms.

I would not consider myself “hard-core Catholic.” I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism (Conference Baptist, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and Evangelical Free Church in America).

But I do consider myself a devout Catholic who accepts all the teachings of the Church. As a convert, I am probably more likely to criticize Protestant denominations, because I have BEEN THERE and I know what they teach and practice.

I’m a little uncomfortable with the term “ecumenical Catholic.” To me, this means “theologically liberal.” Is this what you intend?

I’m also not sure what you mean by “evangelical” Catholic. I would like to hear a description of this. Are you referring to someone who tries to help others come to a place where they wish to convert to Catholicism? We should all be like that, although we will evangelize in different ways, some with words and some with actions, including prayer.

Or do you mean something different by “evangelical Catholics?” Are you talking about a Catholic who still appreciates Protestant music, traditions, etc.?

It kind of sounds to me like you like Catholics who are not totally committed to the Catholic Church. Again, perhaps you would be kind enough to define the terms when you have time. Thank you.

 

[Barb3]

I certainly haven’t read all 25 pages of this subject, but I wanted to point out something that I feel is important to “Cat” who first started this question. He mentioned that there aren’t many young people who are Catholic and practice their religion. Didn’t he see the thousands (I believe there were over 500,000 there) young people on EWTN “running” to Madrid for World Youth Day. I was totally impressed with the enthusiasm of these young people and watched it on EWTN the day they arrived. Of course, there was nothing in our local newspaper about this.
Also I’m not sure why some people feel it’s hard to make friends in their Parish – we have all kinds of programs in our Parish – we have a young people’s program and they go out on Saturdays and then come back for the 5:00 P.M. Mass. Also we have Sodality, programs for elderly people – I could go on and on.

 

[jediliz]

I’m a cradle Catholic so I have never been a protestant. I do know that Catholics have an extra Mama figure they can ask for prayers from, they have best friends in those holy men and women that are in Heaven with God (the Saints) and they receive Jesus every week in the Eucharist, sometimes every day if they go to Daily Mass.

Catholics do have to be extra careful when it comes to sins.

And my parish has a Godparents group called Youth Jam that started I think when I was in my 2nd or 3rd year of high school…not sure. I never went, but I know they have a lot of activities like a before start of school picnic or pizza party and other things (I think an ice cream social). My parish has an annual Parish Picnic as well. They also have a parish Bazaar in November.

And I remember Sunday school or whatever it was and doing crafts.

 

[TarkanAttila]

JonNC:

TarkanAttila:

SOLA FIDE is incomplete but not quite wrong, either. Also within that passage, v19, Paul says that through the law he dies to the law and lives to God. Through the law he lives to God. We are not saved by works alone. Nor are we saved by faith plus works, exactly. We are saved by faith, and also good works done in faith.

IOW, when we talk about being justified by faith (alone), we are talking about a Galatians 5faith - a faith that works through love.

Quote:
What I mean to say is that for the Catholic, if I understand correctly, we are NOT saved by faith AND good works.

But if our works are a willing response to God’s love, we are acting in faith, and our faith does save us. But as James says, “faith without works is dead”. Luther was not completely wrong to say our faith alone saves us. But it is wrong to say faith is mere belief.

Faith is belief AND action in accord with that belief.

Luther said justification is operative by faith alone, but faith is never alone, if it is a true, saving faith.

Exactly. Could not put it better myself.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Your signature is interesting. You don’t like the “hard-core Catholics,” but you like the “ecumenical, evangelical Catholics.”

Perhaps it would be good to define what you mean by these terms.

I would not consider myself “hard-core Catholic.” I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism (Conference Baptist, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and Evangelical Free Church in America).

But I do consider myself a devout Catholic who accepts all the teachings of the Church. As a convert, I am probably more likely to criticize Protestant denominations, because I have BEEN THERE and I know what they teach and practice.

I’m a little uncomfortable with the term “ecumenical Catholic.” To me, this means “theologically liberal.” Is this what you intend?

I’m also not sure what you mean by “evangelical” Catholic. I would like to hear a description of this. Are you referring to someone who tries to help others come to a place where they wish to convert to Catholicism? We should all be like that, although we will evangelize in different ways, some with words and some with actions, including prayer.

Or do you mean something different by “evangelical Catholics?” Are you talking about a Catholic who still appreciates Protestant music, traditions, etc.?

It kind of sounds to me like you like Catholics who are not totally committed to the Catholic Church. Again, perhaps you would be kind enough to define the terms when you have time. Thank you.

Well good question.

My sig was originally just the first part of the quote when I got really turned off by a Catholic here who had as a sig…hard core Catholic. It sort of refers to a type that I find here far too often that in their Catholic zeal really turns me off.

I later realized that would give the wrong impression so I added the second part. I was thinking of certain Catholics I know in real life that I love to pieces.

Then I stopped coming here…or came here really infrequently…and haven’t thought about changing the sig. I probably should do so.

I haven’t given really much thought what I would consider an “evangelical ecumenical Catholic”. I actually found those words on some guys website who called himself that and I stole that phrase thinking of some people I have known. And I realize that is using evangelical in a very broad sense and not a particularly theological one.

Giving this some thought of a couple minutes, perhaps your Pope JP II I would categorize as such.

Anyway…I am going on vacation so won’t be responding any more here.

 

[Cat]

I certainly haven’t read all 25 pages of this subject, but I wanted to point out something that I feel is important to “Cat” who first started this question. He mentioned that there aren’t many young people who are Catholic and practice their religion. Didn’t he see the thousands (I believe there were over 500,000 there) young people on EWTN “running” to Madrid for World Youth Day. I was totally impressed with the enthusiasm of these young people and watched it on EWTN the day they arrived. Of course, there was nothing in our local newspaper about this.
Also I’m not sure why some people feel it’s hard to make friends in their Parish – we have all kinds of programs in our Parish – we have a young people’s program and they go out on Saturdays and then come back for the 5:00 P.M. Mass. Also we have Sodality, programs for elderly people – I could go on and on.

Cat is a She, BTW.

I saw the young people running to Madrid for World Youth Day and I’m so glad. I’m sure that many of the young people will be more open to vocations and the priesthood after their experiences.

But going to a WYD to hear His Holiness is a “high,” a “mountaintop experiene,” and almost anyone who goes will appear enthusiastic.

The hard part comes after these young people get home to the “valley,” and discover that their home, school, and parish didn’t go to the WYD, and really don’t care two hoots.

Our lives are lived day-by-day doing ordinary things. I stand by what I said in that first post–young people (and older people, too) are departing Catholic churches to go to the Protestant megachurches or to just stay home and sleep and relax. But the same thing is happening in Protestant churches–many are losing people.

 

[Barb3]

I just “thought” of something that I thought maybe someone on this Forum might be able to answer. I had occasion to go to 2 Protestant churches the past couple of months – one for a Memorial Service and the other for a concert. There was one thing I couldn’t understand and hopefully someone can answer my curiosity. Neither of the Churches had kneelers – and I wondered when they no longer had them (like the Catholic Church) and why they no longer had them in their Churches. It was all I could NOT to genuflect – can anyone tell me WHY!!!

 

[CompSciGuy]

I have seen that material and that too is slanderous. Billy Graham is a good man.

What is with me. I haven’t been here in one month and find myself reacting quite strongly to posts that are blatantly not true and just slander other Christians. Maybe I need another month or more break.

Most websites that have the word “illuminati” in it instantly lose all credibility in my mind. Probably 98% of all wild conspiracy theories that fly from the mouths of drugged up hippies, paranoid schizophrenics, and UFO enthusiasts are in one way or another linked to the illuminati.

 

[CompSciGuy]

Thanks for your reply. I am not definite about the Assembly of God church. I may go to a Baptist one instead. The Assembly of God church is within walking distance. But then so is a Mormon temple and I know I’m not going there. I just don’t want to go to a Protestant church that is pro-abortion. I am frankly shocked that there are people here who are pro-choice. I am not judging anyone. I had an abortion when I was young and not so bright and involved in the New Age. I have regretted it all of my life. And I was never able to have children when I did marry late in life at age 40. I always thought the pro-life stance is one of the best things about the Catholic Church. Unfortunately there is much documentation about Billy Graham. I couldn’t believe it. **Do a search on Billy Graham illuminati. **There is also a well documented book about him. I am new here and don’t know if I can post links. I always thought of Billy Graham as a Protestant saint like Corrie Ten Boom and Joni Eareckson Tada.

Jellen. If ever you see a website or book linking some well-known person with the illuminati or New World Order, that should be a red flag that it’s probably full of BS. Go to google and type in any famous/well-known person’s name followed by illuminati. Trust me, you will find many links. I just tried it with Mother Teresa, Bill Clinton, Lucille Ball and Rosie O’Donnell. Humorously the last one even autocompleted for me and had many, many sites linking Rosie O’Donnell to the illuminati. You will find all kinds of ridiculous conspiracy pages on the web; you will know them because most of them look like the front page of a tabloid, with fonts of different sizes/colors, pictures plastered in a disorganized fashion, etc. None of these sites nor any of the books are well-cited and none are taken seriously by mainstream society and for good reason. They make up things about the Catholic Church too because it is large and old and has authority, and people like to make conspiracy stories about big organizations. Don’t let these nonsensical stories be your reason for leaving the Church.

 

[Cat]

I just “thought” of something that I thought maybe someone on this Forum might be able to answer. I had occasion to go to 2 Protestant churches the past couple of months – one for a Memorial Service and the other for a concert. There was one thing I couldn’t understand and hopefully someone can answer my curiosity. Neither of the Churches had kneelers – and I wondered when they no longer had them (like the Catholic Church) and why they no longer had them in their Churches. It was all I could NOT to genuflect – can anyone tell me WHY!!!

Protestants, as a rule, do not place much value on the physical realm. It is not the posture that is important during prayer, but the spirit of the person praying. Kneeling physically is not important–what’s important is kneeling spiritually–recognizing in your mind and soul that Jesus is Lord.

It’s almost a heresy–I can’t remember what it’s called, but it’s the heresy where the body is not real, but only the spiritual realm is real. Protestants don’t go that far, but they do not really place much stock in our bodies or any physical thing.

This is one of the things I like about the Catholic Church–we do value the physical realm and we recognize that human beings are physical beings, and that we are pleased or displeased by certain sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and touches. (The problem is, we all differ in what pleases or displeases us! E.g., I don’t mind plain church buildings, but others on CAF have a very hard time with plain Catholic churches–they miss the stained glass and artwork!)

But please don’t get the idea that Protestants never kneel in church. When they do kneel, they turn around and face the pew and use the seat to rest their arms on. I’ve seen this many, many times in my 47 years in evangelical Protestant churches. In fact, my husband would often kneel during our prayer times in the various Protestant churches we were part of, and no one ever thought anything of it or criticized him.

So if you are inclined to kneel in a Protestant church during prayer, go right ahead. It’s OK.

The other prayer position that many evangelical Protestants use is to lean on the pew in front of them (when seated) and bury their head in their arms. I still find this the most reverent prayer position, much more so than kneeling, which I have a hard time with because of my knees. Often in my Catholic parish, I will lean forward in the pew and bury my head in my arms to pray. It just feels right and revererent to me, and it shuts out all distractions.

 

[Roy5]

Back to the question of Protestants supporting abortion. A few points.

1. It is true that some mainline denominations were generally supportive of the woman’s right to choose. I’m not sure that can be called pro-abortion.

2. My sense is that mainline Protestantism has moved to a less sympathetic view of abortion-on-demand over the past 15-20 years. The Methodist Church, as I recall, issued a statement at their last General Conference recognizing that Methodists are divided on the issue. They called for making abortions as rare as possible. 

3. The key concept among mainline Protestants generally is freedom of opinion on many such issues. This is where mainline Protestantism differs from traditional Catholicism. It doesn't require lockstep acceptance of any official position of the church. Methodists, ELCA Lutherans, UCC members, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and others enjoy the freedom to think individually. They regard this as somehow the American way.

4. Where many Protestants are apt to differ from traditional Catholics is when life really begins. They might, for example, consider it more acceptable to abort a fetus in the first trimester and oppose it later on. Etc. My guess is that millions of Catholics feel similarly.

5. When it comes to evangelical Protestants, that's apt to be an entirely different story. They usually are strongly anti-abortion. 

6. One might argue that the greatest 'abortionist' is Mother Nature. Millions of miscarriages occur regularly. Now, is God behind those? Interesting question. I'm sure that the answer is complex. If 'his eye is on the sparrow...' well.

7. The issue for many is women's rights. Does the government have the right to control her reproductive process? Talk about big brother government. Some argue that the decision, at least early in a pregnancy, should be made by the mother, the father?, and the doctor. 

 8. I recall one devout Catholic couple who used the church-approved method of birtb control. The doctor had warned the woman that after six children already a seventh would likely bring on her death and that of the baby. She became pregnant. They thought of a possible abortion, but 'trusted in God' as advised by their priest. The mother and baby died, leaving a grieving husband and six motherless child. The husband took the family out of the Catholic Church, has only angry words to say about it, and they now attend an Episcopal Church.

 9., There is an intelligent and reasonable way to look at all this, on a case by case basis, and this obsession some people have over the issue on either extreme is unfortunate and not very helpful. 

10. I'm sure that if souls occur immediately with pregnancy (as I recall St. Augustine and others thought it was in the third or fourth month?), those souls that depart this world due to miscarriages and abortions are in the presence of Christ who said "let the little ones come unto me...."

 Oh, and if God ordered the killing of everyone in Jericho and Ai, even the babies, and Saul was commanded by God to slaughter every remaining Amalekite - even 'sucklings' the Bible says, and certainly many babies in the womb - could it be that he isn't all that concerned about the murder of babies born and unborn? Makes you wonder.