Is it ever OK to lie?

[Timothysis]

Response to Verbots.

Hello.

You say: The Jews in the basement scenario is a far-fetched example deliberately constructed to make “ends never justify the means” seem absurd. It combines a minor fault (a lie) with a major consequence (people dying in gas chambers).

You are quite right but philosophers use these types of examples to test ideas. [It is like a physical scientist using a pure salt solution, which does not exist anywhere in nature, in an experiment in her lab]

Your ingenious solution is to say that if a person lies to save the Jews he is only commiting a small sin. But the problem remains - why is it a sin at all? Most people would think it a courageous and right act. Courageous because the liar may be endangering his own family were the Nazis to find out that he had lied. Right because to tell the truth and assist the Nazis evil intentions just seems plain wrong or at best a sad necessity. Nobody, who was not arguing a point in a philosophy discussion forum, would think that telling a lie would be wrong and deserving God’s condemnation - however minor that condemnation might be.

This example shows I think, that there are some cases - perhaps only extreme ones - where the end does justify the means.

Best wishes

Laurie Gibson

An excellent post!!!

 

[hellopeople]

I keep reading in this thread that the slippery slope argument is fallacious. But where is your evidence of that? Do you not believe that habitualized venial sin often leads to mortal sin? Is that not what the Church teaches? Does not the Church teach that we should be careful to not commit even venial sin precisely because it leads to mortal sin? Is that not what you’ve witnessed in your own life and/or the lives of those you know? Haven’t studies shown that soft porn leads to harder and harder porn? That less harmful illegal drugs such as marijuana open the door to more harmful ones like cocaine and heroine?

Are you suggesting that lying to save innocent lives leads to lying for malicious reasons? I doubt it.

 

[Doc_Keele]

LS what I was told in my lectures is that a slippery slope argument can be fallacious (and indeed usually is) but needn’t be. It depends on which slippery slope argument is being made.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Sorry… should have hit the return key a little more often,…

Oops. Sorry, I meant the whole scenario, which BTW is an excellent one and could easily take a whole college course to cover, with all the complicating factors and things like that.

That’s why I said I was getting dizzy. I did mean it as a joke, but my sense of humor is very dry and lots of times people don’t know when I’m joking. Sorry.

Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

 

[LittleSoldier]

LS what I was told in my lectures is that a slippery slope argument can be fallacious (and indeed usually is) but needn’t be. It depends on which slippery slope argument is being made.

Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. I was wondering about that. Now we all know why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And you specifically pointed out the problems when you described the slippery slope argument and why that made it fallacious.

I think I need to take a class in logic sometime.

Thanks!

Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn children safe today.

 

[Doc_Keele]

Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. I was wondering about that. Now we all know why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And you specifically pointed out the problems when you described the slippery slope argument and why that made it fallacious.

I think I need to take a class in logic sometime.

Thanks

YW
“I think I need to take a class in logic sometime” - so do most of us; I picked up a little bit in these recent seminars but can’t claim to be an expert:shrug:
There’s good stuff on logical fallacies on the web eg fallacyfiles.org/index.html

 

[LittleSoldier]

YW
“I think I need to take a class in logic sometime” - so do most of us; I picked up a little bit in these recent seminars but can’t claim to be an expert:shrug:
There’s good stuff on logical fallacies on the web eg fallacyfiles.org/index.html

Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out. I know there are a lot of fallacies because I’ve looked them up a few times, but never read much about them.

Holy Mother, please keep
all unborn babies safe today.