Is it ever ok to lie?

[riffer791]

Is it ever ok to lie?
I know lieing is frowned apon in the catholic faith, and Satan is the father of lies, and i know in the bible theres passages that say liers will go to hell, i remember a proverb from the book of proverbs " A thief is preferable to a habitual liar but the lot of both is ruin" And theres the commandment Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
But there is also examples in the bible where good people lie, like when the canaanite prostitute lied to hide the Israelite spies before they invaded the land of Canaan and her and her households life was spared. Jonathan lied to Saul to protect David, and in the book of 1 Kings 13 the prophet Michiah explains how God sent a lying spirit to the other prophets to entice king Ahab to go to battle and be killed, (because of the evil he did.) I remember another example where a prophet lies to a man of God to test him to see if he will obey what God commanded him to do.
Personally i hate to lie i allways try to be honest.
But the situation im in now is, I just started work as a truck driver and when doing interstate work im required by law to fill out a work diary recording all my hours of driveing and rest time and i have to show on my diary that i havnt worked more than the legal amount of time without the required amount of rest. The thing is, my boss is telling me to lie in my diary to stay on schedual. Is it sinful to lie to the authoritys for the sake of getting my job done in time? Should i obey my boss when he tells me to lie or should i refuse? He sais everyone lies in their work diary i think its just common practice in the trucking industry. I fear if i refuse to lie in my diary i wont be working there for very long. But i also wont let my job come between me an God. I’d appreciate any advice on this.

 

[Lancer]

Don’t see any “wiggle-room”…or freedom for rationalization…saying nothing may not even be an option in tough cases…no matter what the personal costs (easier said than done).

Pax Christi

**CCC-2nd Ed
**
I. THE SOURCES OF MORALITY

1750 The morality of human acts depends on:

• the object chosen;

• the end in view or the intention;

• the circumstances of the action.

The object, the intention, and the circumstances make up the “sources,” or constitutive elements, of the morality of human acts.

1751 The object chosen is a good toward which the will deliberately directs itself. It is the matter of a human act. The object chosen morally specifies the act of the will, insofar as reason recognizes and judges it to be or not to be in conformity with the true good. Objective norms of morality express the rational order of good and evil, attested to by conscience.

1752 In contrast to the object, the intention resides in the acting subject. Because it lies at the voluntary source of an action and determines it by its end, intention is an element essential to the moral evaluation of an action. The end is the first goal of the intention and indicates the purpose pursued in the action. The intention is a movement of the will toward the end: it is concerned with the goal of the activity. It aims at the good anticipated from the action undertaken. Intention is not limited to directing individual actions, but can guide several actions toward one and the same purpose; it can orient one’s whole life toward its ultimate end. For example, a service done with the end of helping one’s neighbor can at the same time be inspired by the love of God as the ultimate end of all our actions. One and the same action can also be inspired by several intentions, such as performing a service in order to obtain a favor or to boast about it.

1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one’s neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving).39

1754 **The circumstances, including the consequences, are secondary elements of a moral act. **They contribute to increasing or diminishing the moral goodness or evil of human acts (for example, the amount of a theft). They can also diminish or increase the agent’s responsibility (such as acting out of a fear of death). Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves; they can make neither good nor right an action that is in itself evil.

2482 "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving."281 The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."282

2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims.** If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.**

2487 Every offense committed against justice and truth entails the duty of reparation, even if its author has been forgiven. When it is impossible publicly to make reparation for a wrong, it must be made secretly. If someone who has suffered harm cannot be directly compensated, he must be given moral satisfaction in the name of charity. This duty of reparation also concerns offenses against another’s reputation. This reparation, moral and sometimes material, must be evaluated in terms of the extent of the damage inflicted. It obliges in conscience.

2488 The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

2489** Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.**283

2491 Professional secrets - for example, those of political office holders, soldiers, physicians, and lawyers - or confidential information given under the seal of secrecy must be kept, save in exceptional cases where keeping the secret is bound to cause very grave harm to the one who confided it, to the one who received it or to a third party, and where the very grave harm can be avoided only by divulging the truth. Even if not confided under the seal of secrecy, private information prejudicial to another is not to be divulged without a grave and proportionate reason.

2492 Everyone should observe an appropriate reserve concerning persons’ private lives. Those in charge of communications should maintain a fair balance between the requirements of the common good and respect for individual rights. Interference by the media in the private lives of persons engaged in political or public activity is to be condemned to the extent that it infringes upon their privacy and freedom.

 

[padrepio_2012]

i would say yes, ONLY if it is for the persons own good and even that would be in rare cases. if it would only hurt the person then it may be ok. like for example, say your friend just started cooking for fun and makes you a meal or something similar. they hope you really like it but it turns out it tastes awful. when they ask you how it is, do you boldly tell them to the face it tastes terrible or do you fib and say yes it was good? obviously if you tell them its awful, they will be upset. even if you say it was ok but could use some improving, you still have that hard feeling. i would say this is the only case it would be ok, if it is for their good. otherwise, lieing is usually a sin.

 

[devoutchristian]

Lying is intrinsically evil, so no.

 

[Annie39]

Absolutely do not lie. Take your breaks. Rest. You are putting yourself and others inndanger. Someone should blow the whistle on the trucking companies that over work drivers to exhaustion.

Annie (someone who knows)

Is it ever ok to lie?
I know lieing is frowned apon in the catholic faith, and Satan is the father of lies, and i know in the bible theres passages that say liers will go to hell, i remember a proverb from the book of proverbs " A thief is preferable to a habitual liar but the lot of both is ruin" And theres the commandment Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
But there is also examples in the bible where good people lie, like when the canaanite prostitute lied to hide the Israelite spies before they invaded the land of Canaan and her and her households life was spared. Jonathan lied to Saul to protect David, and in the book of 1 Kings 13 the prophet Michiah explains how God sent a lying spirit to the other prophets to entice king Ahab to go to battle and be killed, (because of the evil he did.) I remember another example where a prophet lies to a man of God to test him to see if he will obey what God commanded him to do.
Personally i hate to lie i allways try to be honest.
But the situation im in now is, I just started work as a truck driver and when doing interstate work im required by law to fill out a work diary recording all my hours of driveing and rest time and i have to show on my diary that i havnt worked more than the legal amount of time without the required amount of rest. The thing is, my boss is telling me to lie in my diary to stay on schedual. Is it sinful to lie to the authoritys for the sake of getting my job done in time? Should i obey my boss when he tells me to lie or should i refuse? He sais everyone lies in their work diary i think its just common practice in the trucking industry. I fear if i refuse to lie in my diary i wont be working there for very long. But i also wont let my job come between me an God. I’d appreciate any advice on this.

 

[riffer791]

Yeah, i believe honesty is the best policy, i hate to lie.
what happened is there was a fuel deisel shortage in melbourne not all petrol stations had diesel and we can only buy diesel from caltex, so on wednesday i had to go pretty far out of the way to put diesel in the trucks which put us behind schedual, plus since i am new to this i was relying on a gps to navigate which told me to go the long way around on a trip and made me even later, and on the way home no word of a lie the thing led me to the bottle shop so then im thinking theres somthing strange going on here, i quit drinking a couple of years ago. Anyway i was supposed to be home early to get some decent rest before leaving for Sydney 4:30 the next morning but i got home and to bed at 10:30 and the found it hard to get to sleep, i had to get up at 4:30 and leave from the warehouse 6:00 so i didnt get much sleep. Made good time to Sydney allthough after i fueled up half way i realised the fuel card is missing so the stuffing around finding a way to pay for the fuel ate up my rest time. Made it Sydney feeling pretty exhausted was allowed 3 1/2 hours rest while they unloaded and loaded, but again couldnt sleep. before i left my boss told me put in your log book you left here 7:00 but i actually left 6:30 i dis obeyed him and told the truth. I was supposed to drive back part way and stop at a hotel im Golbourne, get a few hours sleep then leave for Melbourne 4:30am, because they needed the furniture at the Melbourne warehouse asap to deliver it off elsewhere. On the way back to Golbourne i get pulled up at the weighbridge and the authoritys check my log book and see that i only have 15 minuits left to make it to Golbourne before my maximum 12 hours working time was up. so they wouldnt let me go so i had to stay in a motel near the weighbridge and wasnt allowed to leave till 6:00. my boss wasnt impressed that id disobeyed him and not lied on the work diary. So that put me even further behind schedual. Anyway i needed that extra sleep that decision to tell the truth in the work diary could have saved my life or somwon elses. My boss also instructed me to lie to my co workers about the weighbridge incident somwon asked about it so i told the truth. I dont want to lie in my work diary ill have to explain to my boss im not willing to do that. I really want this job, I need this job but im not going to trade my soul for it.

 

[riffer791]

I can see the evil spirits are trying hard to make me fail at this job, it might sound crazy to some people but im convinced of that.
I dont want to fail at this job, i know ill get better at it. But i wont let my boss make a liar of me.
Hes not a totally unreasonable bloke hes been good to me and tolerant of me even though iv made mistakes and put the whole operation way behind schedual. He hasnt sacked me yet. Ill just have to talk to him and ask if theres a way he can manage the business in a way so that i dont have to lie in my work diary. Hopefully he will agree to that.
Thanks for your advice.