Is it ever okay to call out blasphemy or heresy as it comes from the pulpit

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That’s why it would be a grave case and only in certainty. If there is any sliver of doubt I ain’t shouting heresy. If they were wrong I would try to clarify what I said and address church teaching. I strive to teach the teachings of the church, if I stray I want to kn9w
 
I’ve never heard blasphemy or heresy from the pulpit. If I thought something was heresy I’d probably be more inclined to think I may not have properly understood and so would keep my mouth shut. Discussion afterwards would be best (and may save embarrassment if one has totally got the wrong end of the stick).
 
quandy57 said:
Sure, but the problem with that is a priest who speaks blasphemy or heresy knowing it to be against church teaching can be approached and still not change his ways. I could go to the bishop and some bishops would definately do nothing. So what is the obligation of the laity in trying to ensure the dignity of truth.
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The obligation is to talk to the priest privately. If he won’t talk about what you perceive to be heresy then next step is the bishop but you have to provide the bishop with evidence (video recording, other witnesses).
There is no point in the attitude saying well neither the priest nor the bishop will do anything.
 
quandy57 said:
According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which [the laity] possess, they have the right and even at times the duty
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Well, if I encountered a priest seemingly preaching heresy, I as a lay person would do the same thing several people have advised you to do:
  1. Discuss with the priest to make sure there wasn’t a misunderstanding or mistake on my part
  2. If I still felt the priest was wrong after discussing, I’d write to his bishop.
I can tell you in a US church, any kind of standing up and challenging during the service would not only be seen as extremely rude, but also would likely get you removed from the church by the ushers and possibly the police called, because all churches and synagogues are concerned about potential violence, and those who get up and interrupt a church service are often unstable.

Given that I have now lived many decades without hearing any priest preaching heresy or blasphemy, I have never had to do any of this.

You further seem to be saying it’s pointless to discuss with the priest or bishop because they won’t agree with you or won’t do anything. What, did you already run into this and found that nobody was concerned about your opinion? I would think in that case you should just accept it as humility and find another church to attend.
 
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Thank you for disregarding much of what I have said. I never said those were pointless, I said sometimes it’s not enough. And just cuz you dont recognize heresy doesnt mean it isnt there. My point for the last time, I’m logging out and not using CA forums again…is this: the laity have a degree of responsibility for such matters and yes they ought to go to priest in private first, then with another, then to magisterium, and if all of that is not enough Jesus said to treat as a tax collector. So for the reverence of the liturgy I would refrain from such things, but in a simple talk, perhaps not. Not only is there a responsibility for fraternal correction of a small degree, but also bringing it to the community as pointed out in Canon Law 212 as I quoted earlier. So is this a way to do so. End of discussion. I’m out. God be with yall
 
quandy57 said:
I think everyone has seen a catholic speaker speak heresy or blasphemy to an audience. I definately know there are times when I want to yell out heresy or blasphemy but choose not to, deciding I don’t want to make a scene.
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A couple thoughts here:
It’s probably not a great idea to yell out blasphemy/heresy during the Mass or Catholic speaking event. If there are concerns, speak privately with the speaker afterwords. Especially if he is a priest, then you should respect his office. Plus, social etiquette exists for a reason. If you start a scene, nobody is going to take you seriously.

Furthermore, perhaps the speaker is accidentally and not intentionally saying something objectionable. That’s not out of the realm of possibility. Those situations should be treated with some grace. Finally, I’ve noticed that people can be a bit overly sensitive at times, especially in regard to a priest’s homily. Sometimes, a priest will say something perfectly fine and people will misconstrue things and get riled up.

EDIT: I have never actually heard heresy/blasphemy in a homily or at a Catholic event. I have heard things that I may disagree with, but never anything heretical or blasphemous.
 
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quandy57 said:
What if a priest blaspheme against the holy spirit by saying Jesus cannot forgive sins, that the power of Jesus is not of God
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You have heard this too? Or is it a hypothetical example. What blasphemy have you heard?
 
You might take a smartphone and make either a sub rosa audio or video recording of the sermon, then play it for whomever might be in a position to do something about it.
 
There is one tradition I know of. It involves compiling a list of greivances and posting it on the door of the church. Do not nail it, use tape, or something that comes off easily. Also, I would not recommend that for a Catholic Church.

Heresy in homilies is one example of a broader trend of judging critically what is happening at Mass. The minister deserves a basic respect, because he stands in persona christi. He has been ordained as a judgment that he will faithfully present the homily and the whole liturgy for the good of the people. In that setting, standing up and saying something is inappropriate. It is probably even inappropriate to go in intending to pass judgment on the homily, or how the priest gives out communion, or… fill in you abuse here. Go intending to encounter Christ. He will be there.

Outside of mass, it is different. Usually speakers like questions asked at the end. That gives you some time to decide if what you want to ask is really pertinent, or if it is just a topic you are obsessed with that does not really touch on the subject of the talk.

As a seminarian, you have lots of people you can go to. If you cannot accept what is being preached in the pulpits of your Church, now is a good time to find out. It should be an element in your discernment.
 
Could he actually be reprimanded for posting this thread? CAF can be an interesting place to post ideas for open discussion anonymously, and we don’t have to always shut that down or tell them to go somewhere else. I do remember one preacher I heard suggesting that Satan, angels and demons, may be mythical symbols of good and evil and not real. That sort of thing is too vague and prone to misunderstanding nuance by a listener. Maybe the OP has heard worse. If a preacher (it may not be in the Mass, or a priest or deacon) is spouting egregious errors that are clear and unambiguous, perhaps there is a hypothetical situation where a public, immediate reproval by a lay congregant is called for. Is that always and in every case imprudent?
 
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quandy57 said:
I think everyone has seen a catholic speaker speak heresy or blasphemy to an audience
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Heresy and blasphemy are quite serious charges.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2089.htm

Let us know how the Church defines

" Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2148.htm

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech; in misusing God’s name. St. James condemns those “who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called.” The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God’s name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion.

Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.

I have heard some things that are silly, for instance I once heard the sermon that the real miracle of the loaves and fishes was sharing. While this is a well worn idea, it does not rise to heresy.

If you encouter someone speaking true heresy or blasphemy, first make an appointment to speak with them (or in the case of a traveling speaker, reach out via phone or email).

“I understood you to say XYZ. Could you please explain this to me because the Catechism (or other official document) states ABC”.

If they persist, go to the Bishop.
 
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I once heard a priest, during his homily, recommend that parishioners engage in Zen meditation. While that’s pretty heretical, I kept silent. Don’t recall that I ever went to another Mass he celebrated, though.
 
TheLittleLady said:
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quandy57:
I think everyone has seen a catholic speaker speak heresy or blasphemy to an audience
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Heresy and blasphemy are quite serious charges.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 2089

Let us know how the Church defines

" Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 2148

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech; in misusing God’s name. St. James condemns those “who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called.” The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God’s name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion.

Blasphemy is contrary to the respect due God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin.

I have heard some things that are silly, for instance I once heard the sermon that the real miracle of the loaves and fishes was sharing. While this is a well worn idea, it does not rise to heresy.

If you encouter someone speaking true heresy or blasphemy, first make an appointment to speak with them (or in the case of a traveling speaker, reach out via phone or email).

“I understood you to say XYZ. Could you please explain this to me because the Catechism (or other official document) states ABC”.

If they persist, go to the Bishop.
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The example of the loaves and fishes is a perfect example of a modernist heresy. It is definitely heretical.
 
No, it’s not appropriate.

In fact, doing so will likely prevent you from being called to Sacred Orders.

Bishops, rectors and directors of vocations do not want the liability that comes from men exhibiting such behavior.

Shout out at your own risk.

I will pray the gift of humility, best exemplified by the Mother of God, would shower down upon you.

Deacon Christopher
 
TheLittleLady said:
Going to second the request here. Please cite the heresy from Fr Martin.

I have read many of his books, have never once read a word of heresy.
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In my opinion, Fr. Martin does walk a very fine line in what he says, especially regarding issues of homosexuality, which he has taken up as an issue of interest. I’m not always a huge fan about how he approaches certain issues. But, that being said, I have never heard him say or write anything which is directly heretical or blasphemous.
 
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