Is it ever wrong to cross ones self during the Mass?

[hopefull]

I think far too much is made of everybody doing the same thing at the same time. I don’t think Christ’s prayer for unity was about mimicing the Rockettes. While obedience to the rubrics is of course important, there also needs to be room for spontaneity of expression, provided it is a holy gesture.

 

[otjm]

Another issue where the world will not come to an end, not even depending on whether you do or don’t make the Sign of the Cross.

As noted, it is a carry over from the EF, and from a prayer which is not in the OF. Because one made the Sign of the Cross when one was blessed by the priest, and because one does not receive that blessing in the OF, then the question is, why is anyone doing so?

And the answer is that it was done then about that time (slightly different time, but within seconds) in the EF and it is a carryover to the OF.

Should one bless themselves? Well, if one is doing it because one is receiving a blessing, then Yes, obviously. and if one is not receiving a blessing, then “should” one do so? Technically, no, if the Sign of the Cross is to be a response to a blessing. However, we make the Sign of the Cross elsewhere where there is no blessing (e.g. at the beginning of Mass, when the priest does likewise).

Could one make the Sign of the Cross at this time? Of course. The rubrics are not that rigid that one is forbidden to do so. The world won’t come to an end. The better practice might be to not do so, since it is specific to one form (the EF) and not the other (the OF). But better is qualative, not absolute as in right and wrong.

 

[maryjk]

we have been instructed in at least 3 different parishes over the last 15 years or so to do exactly as OP describes, cross ourselves during this penitential rite. we have heard people scolded from the pulpit for striking the breast during the Confiteor or the Lord I am not worty.

However it does not bother me because I have received so much contradictory instruction from the pulpit over the years, we now just go with the flow whichever parish we end up. It reminds me of that old girl scout song, when you’re up you’re up and when you’re down you’re down etc. Hold hands, don’t hold hands raise them in the air, don’t raise them in the air hold them at chest level facing out, no facing in. Whatever.

Kneel. Stand, Sit, genuflect, don’t genuflect. What. Ever.

the laity don’t make this stuff up. any time you see someone in the pews doing something weird, unless they are mentally challenged, you can bet some priest, some time, somewhere, instructed them to do it.

And I thought it was just me that thought this way.

EVERY time we go to Mass at a different parish, something is different. Or if we have a visiting priest. It gets old.

 

[otjm]

The first is in the rubrics, the second is not. But “scolding from the pulpit” is never the pastoral way to address these issues. Apparently, the post-Vatican II definition of “pastoral” excludes charity to people who do things the “old” way.

And some times “scolding” is the reaction to being told something you don’t want to hear, no matter how gently it is said…

 

[malphono]

japhy:

The first is in the rubrics, the second is not. But “scolding from the pulpit” is never the pastoral way to address these issues. Apparently, the post-Vatican II definition of “pastoral” excludes charity to people who do things the “old” way.

And some times “scolding” is the reaction to being told something you don’t want to hear, no matter how gently it is said…

Seems to me japhy makes an excellent point, particularly so in that the OP says the congregation was scolded to

“Stop That”!, because it is pre-Vatican II.

No, this is not something particularly serious, but apparently the priest that OP references needs a lesson in that too. One might get the impression that that particular priest is so taken with the (ugh!) “spirit of Vatican II” that he is incapable of dealing charitably with any practice, howsoever minor, that might pre-date that event.

 

[soflochristmas]

No, scolding from the pulpit is not. However, a correction or an explanation in a homily is not necessarily a bad thing; a charitable explanation that this is a different prayer than the old one, what the differences are, and why they are different would actually be very interesting.

Good grief…don’t we have bigger things to address during the homily? Like actually providing some catechisis about the readings or our faith would be nice instead of chastising someone for exercising a sacramental during Mass.

 

[japhy]

Good grief…don’t we have bigger things to address during the homily? Like actually providing some catechisis about the readings or our faith would be nice instead of chastising someone for exercising a sacramental during Mass.

The priest can make a brief statement about it – 30 seconds, tops, really – and then get on with his homily.

 

[JaMc]

Annie, it sounds like you’re doing the Hokey pokey!

Interesting comparison - I was reading somewhere once that the Hokey Pokey song/dance was actually originally intended to mock the gestures of the Mass (“Hokey Pokey” = “hoc es corpus”). I believe there was a news article a while back about how in the U.K. they were even investigating whether they should continue to allow the song in schools due to its origin, and whether Catholics would find it offensive.

So, I suppose, the comparison of the gestures during Mass and the Hokey Pokey wouldn’t be too far off…

That’s my bit of useless triva for the day

 

[JimG]

Interesting comparison - I was reading somewhere once that the Hokey Pokey song/dance was actually originally intended to mock the gestures of the Mass (“Hokey Pokey” = “hoc es corpus”). I believe there was a news article a while back about how in the U.K. they were even investigating whether they should continue to allow the song in schools due to its origin, and whether Catholics would find it offensive.

So, I suppose, the comparison of the gestures during Mass and the Hokey Pokey wouldn’t be too far off…

That’s my bit of useless triva for the day

I don’t think it was the dance, but rather the phrase “hocus pocus” which was coined as a quasi-mockery of the Latin Mass prayers. But that meaning was forgotten long ago, long before the dance was created, which really had nothing to do with the phrase.

 

[judechild]

Just to throw in something:

I don’t think you’re supposed to cross yourself if the priest incenses the congregation. You’re supposed to bow because it’s an acknowlegement of Christ in you.

 

[pjramon]

WOW! I enjoyed this thread. Thanks for the clarification… I think.

 

[pjramon]

Just to continue this, is it proper to cross yourself during the rite of sprinkling of with holy water?

 

[otjm]

Just to continue this, is it proper to cross yourself during the rite of sprinkling of with holy water?

1. “…On Sundays, especially in the Season of Easter, in place of the customary Act of Penitence, from time to time the blessing and sprinkling of water to recall Baptism may take place.56”

That is all that the GIRM seems to say. the “56” is a footnote, which says "cf below, pp.1249-1252 but what the below is referring to I don’t know.

The easiest answer is do what others do (When in Rome…).

It might be noted that in general the rubrics do not specify every last jot and tittle; in general there are no instructions as to where the laity’s hands are to be, for example. There is no response at all indicated by the people. Some bow (as at the Trappist Monestary where I attend Mass occasionally; they use this every Sunday); some may cross themselves. Some may do nothing. Where it is not regulated, it may not automatically be presumed that nothing is allowed; but where it is not regulated, nothing is specifically required.

It may be that in the EF the rubrics require something; I do not have them available so I cannot say. If they do, that is specific to the EF, and may hve migrated over to the OF, but as noted is not required in teh OF nor prohibited. The GIRM is simply silent. Then, local custom would seem to apply.

 

[Mel_Stones]

Fr. Vincent Serpa’s answer:

Is the sign of the cross improper

Sign of the Cross after a Protestant prayer

“The sign of the cross is always appropriate–like breathing in and out!”

 

[otjm]

Fr. Vincent Serpa’s answer:

Is the sign of the cross improper

Sign of the Cross after a Protestant prayer

“The sign of the cross is always appropriate–like breathing in and out!”

While I agree with th gist of Father Serpa’s answer, it helps to keep in mind that a specific question with a specific answer is not always entirely applicable to a different specific question.

The OP’s question was not about the Sign of the Cross at reception of Communion; it was about the Sign of the Cross at the beginning of Mass during the Pentitential Rite. As noted, it was appropriate in the EF where the Priest blessed the congregation in a prayer following the one in the OF; however, in the OF the prayer has not migrated over; and people are blessing themselves where the (previously given) blessing is not being done.

So the result is that it is not forbidden to make the Sign of the Cross then in the OF during the Penitential rite, but doing so somewhat makes as much sense as blessing oneself during the recitation of the Sanctus. Neither places make as much sense as blessing oneself while the priest is blessing them in the EF.

People used to bless themselves after receiving, in the EF, and they are still blessing themselves in the OF, and nothing essential has changed. However, in the Penitential rite, something essential has changed - a prayer was omitted. It is not a matter of “wrong” so much as a matter that things are different and the purpose of making the Sign of the Cross is no longer there.

It is simply an item that barely raises to an extremely minor level of importance, and a little bit of running on auto-pilot rather than understanding the differences.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Kneel. Stand, Sit, genuflect, don’t genuflect. What. Ever.

LOL! I am sorry, but this just cracked me up!!

I went to daily mass in a parish near my college when I first became catholic. I got in the habit of doing the sign of the cross at this time. I do it in my current parish out of habit, although no one else does but a rare few. I’ve found myself doing it when cantoring, and I’ve noticed more people have started. I hope I haven’t started something bad by this :S

 

[judechild]

Just to continue this, is it proper to cross yourself during the rite of sprinkling of with holy water?

Yah, I think that’s okay because it’s a reminder of our batismal promises.

 

[NPC]

I tend to cross myself during the penitential rite, although it’s only something I’ve started to do recently. People have mentioned hand-holding during the Lord’s Prayer or raising hands at the dialogue - I have never experienced the former (it’s not something that has caught on yet in Ireland!), but I have noticed a few visitors doing the latter. It does seem odd to me. I don’t see a need for such gestures at the “et cum spiritu tuo” because one is already expressing oneself verbally at this point. I would see crossing oneself at the penitential rite to be on a different level to this. After all, we are praying for the Lord to “have mercy on us, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life” - I can’t see what could be wrong with calling to mind the cross and Christ’s sacrifice on it, which has paid for those very sins which we implore Him to forgive.