Is it "fair" many ex-Catholics judge Catholicism simply by their childhood experiences?

[rev_kevin]

Of course not!

You are putting words in my mouth as i did not and do not condone such things.
As a victim of such things myself, i hardly can condone such things!

We are allowd to have scars for sure.
We are also allowed (and encouraged) to heal up by God’s grace and encouragement through his written word.
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and You shall find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My load is light.” - Jesus Christ
Matthew 11:28-30

Get up and dust yourself off. You’ve been laying down there far too long.

I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I must have misunderstood whay you meant by “the Catholic Religion is run by imperfect human beings who themselves many times carry baggage with them from their childhood.”
I took it to mean because the are imperfect its ok and you should just get over it.
Did not mean no harm I just misunderstood.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Thank you. I see that God is within you just by the way you speak.
What you have said here has made a lot of sense and I will have to determine if I have scars or if I still have unhealed wounds. Thank you for sharing what you have learned to me and I will take your words to heart.

I think that this is a great example of why fellowship is so important in our Christian walk–we can learn from one another.

God Bless!

 

[emeraldcoast]

Yes, you are allowed to have scars. I have them, and I am 61 years old. I was subject to much of the same thing you were in my Catholic school. It sure was a bit confusing to hear how much God loved you on one hand, while on the other hand the people who represented that God were humiliating you and being abusive to you. What kind of a message was that sending? It affected every area of my life.

However, to me, scars are healed wounds. They may be a reminder of the original wound, but they are healed. What I had for a long time was not scars, but still open, festering, unhealed wounds. A wound has to heal from within and it takes a long time for that to happen, and the base of that wound has to be clean and free from infection. Spiritual wounds require spiritual cleansing, and if you carefully read the Scriptures, you will see that the best cleanser is forgiveness. Forgiveness does NOT mean excusing and condoning wrong actions. It does not mean acting as if these things never happened. It means freeing yourself from the bitterness and hatred and self-pity that keep those wounds open and festering, and keeps you miserable. Others may cause you misery, but the lack of forgiveness will keep you miserable and resentful and bitter, and that is one’s own choice to remain that way.

Forgiveness is so important, that one’s salvation depends upon it. If God was not a forgiving God, we would all be toast. We’d all get what we really deserve. Jesus hung on that Cross and begged His Father to forgive those who had tortured and beat Him and crucified Him. He was, in effect, asking His Father to forgive all of OUR sins, which is really what put Him on that Cross in the first place. We pray the Lord’s prayer and ask God to forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive others. That’s pretty tough language. It’s telling us we must forgive if we want to be forgiven. Forgiveness is not an option, it is a requirement.

I don’t know you, so I cannot judge the degree to which you have forgiven, I can’t judge the state of your soul in this matter. But I can tell you that if you are harboring resentment and bitterness toward certain people and their actions in your life, perhaps you have wounds that haven’t healed yet and need some attention. Only you can judge that. But if you have scars, remember they are healed wounds, and when you mentally look at them they are also reminders of how NOT to treat people so that you don’t inflict the same wounds on others. They can serve a good purpose. These are some of the things I’ve learned and am still learning in this matter.

God Bless!

 

[Vasian]

I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I must have misunderstood whay you meant by “the Catholic Religion is run by imperfect human beings who themselves many times carry baggage with them from their childhood.”
I took it to mean because the are imperfect its ok and you should just get over it.
Did not mean no harm I just misunderstood.

No harm done:thumbsup:

 

[Vasian]

Yes, you are allowed to have scars. I have them, and I am 61 years old. I was subject to much of the same thing you were in my Catholic school. It sure was a bit confusing to hear how much God loved you on one hand, while on the other hand the people who represented that God were humiliating you and being abusive to you. What kind of a message was that sending? It affected every area of my life.

However, to me, scars are healed wounds. They may be a reminder of the original wound, but they are healed. What I had for a long time was not scars, but still open, festering, unhealed wounds. A wound has to heal from within and it takes a long time for that to happen, and the base of that wound has to be clean and free from infection. Spiritual wounds require spiritual cleansing, and if you carefully read the Scriptures, you will see that the best cleanser is forgiveness. Forgiveness does NOT mean excusing and condoning wrong actions. It does not mean acting as if these things never happened. It means freeing yourself from the bitterness and hatred and self-pity that keep those wounds open and festering, and keeps you miserable. Others may cause you misery, but the lack of forgiveness will keep you miserable and resentful and bitter, and that is one’s own choice to remain that way.

Forgiveness is so important, that one’s salvation depends upon it. If God was not a forgiving God, we would all be toast. We’d all get what we really deserve. Jesus hung on that Cross and begged His Father to forgive those who had tortured and beat Him and crucified Him. He was, in effect, asking His Father to forgive all of OUR sins, which is really what put Him on that Cross in the first place. We pray the Lord’s prayer and ask God to forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive others. That’s pretty tough language. It’s telling us we must forgive if we want to be forgiven. Forgiveness is not an option, it is a requirement.

I don’t know you, so I cannot judge the degree to which you have forgiven, I can’t judge the state of your soul in this matter. But I can tell you that if you are harboring resentment and bitterness toward certain people and their actions in your life, perhaps you have wounds that haven’t healed yet and need some attention. Only you can judge that. But if you have scars, remember they are healed wounds, and when you mentally look at them they are also reminders of how NOT to treat people so that you don’t inflict the same wounds on others. They can serve a good purpose. These are some of the things I’ve learned and am still learning in this matter.

 

[Salonika]

HeWillProvide:

Also, I was referring to full-grown adults leaving the church, using their childhood experiences as a reason, not children leaving the church at the time of their youth.

Could it be compared to schoolchildren leaving school because they didn’t like it, for whatever reason? In other words, are they not mature enough to understand it…?

Think there are many reasons why people leave churches, including the Catholic Church, and also that often people do not give all the reasons or the main reason.

They may do this for a number of reasons. They may not want to hurt people they have been brought up with or by. They may not want to reopen wounds or they know that it will result in an argument or intense attempts to change their minds or “fix their theology”.

I finally, after a lot of soul searching, left a mainstream Protestant Church because I was challenged in a sermon about some of theological concepts. They were concepts I somehow never took in and when I found out what they meant I could not accept them however much I tried.

HeWillProvide:

Cases of abuse are, of course, not being compared to kids being bored in school, kids not liking their teachers, kids not liking their peers, kids having bullies, etc… (kids being bored in church, kids not liking the priest/nun, kids not liking the members of the church, kids meeting mean people at church, etc.)

Think there is a continuum of abuse and some of things listed above eg kids not liking the priest/nun, meeting mean people at church can be at the lower end of abuse but that does not make it okay. For example being hit because you are left-handed IS abuse or because you could not do something however much you tried. (My father had a bad stutter the result of being a changed lefty - his greatest gift to me was to make sure this never happened to me.)

Also in other situations of abuse we are told to get out of not to stay in it and not to get into anything similar. For some people returning to where abuse happened, whether it is church or somehere else, is something that it would not be healthy for them to do. Especially if there has not been acceptance that what happened to them was wrong and/or there has been an apoliogy.

For some of us who like to explore ideas and ask questions it feels very unsafe to be in a church, or anywhere, if you are told what you must believe.

 

[Salonika]

CB Catholic:

However, to me, scars are healed wounds. They may be a reminder of the original wound, but they are healed. What I had for a long time was not scars, but still open, festering, unhealed wounds. A wound has to heal from within and it takes a long time for that to happen, and the base of that wound has to be clean and free from infection.

Thanks for this very helpful comment. It reminds me/us that recovery is a process (not a single decision) and also suggests that we may think we are healed but what we have actually done is partially heal.

It may be that we have to keep away from particular situations/hearing particular views if we are to fully heal and can start with a clean slate.
CB Catholic:

Spiritual wounds require spiritual cleansing, and if you carefully read the Scriptures, you will see that the best cleanser is forgiveness. Forgiveness does NOT mean excusing and condoning wrong actions. It does not mean acting as if these things never happened. It means freeing yourself from the bitterness and hatred and self-pity that keep those wounds open and festering, and keeps you miserable. Others may cause you misery, but the lack of forgiveness will keep you miserable and resentful and bitter, and that is one’s own choice to remain that way.

And we need to forgive ourselves - something that some of us (and I’d include myself in this) find really difficult. For example after I realised that I had never understood some theological concepts I wondered why I could be “so thick” not to do so. Also I got annoyed with myself if I could not clearly explain my difficulties to those few people I shared them with.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I’ve met people who left the Catholic Church in their late teens/early 20s…

some of them were trying to convince me that the Church teaches purgatory is a “second chance”, and thought that Catholics worship Mary…

so I think maybe some of them left cause they never understood the Catholic faith to begin with, and so couldn’t get into it

it’s very sad

These people almost never come to such opinions about Purgatory or Mary on their own. Usually they are poorly catechized Catholics who don’t know their faith, and then they stumble upon some hardcore Protestant evangelist who convinces them that they are worshipping Mary, that Purgatory is a “second chance,” and the rest of the nonsense. They didn’t worship Mary growing up but they get convinced that that’s what they’d been doing by Protestant evangelists they meet.

 

[Nine_Two]

So just because they themselves are human and imperfect is no excuse to do these things to the children. You are making excusses and condoning their actions. This is what I was talking about in my post. Put the blame some where eles instead on the person doing the harm. Just because they may have carried baggage from their childhood, gives them the right to do what they do to children. But its ok for them to be scared by what may have happened to them in their childhood and do this to children but its not ok for us who they did it to as children we aren’t allowed to have scars.

I don’t think anyone said that. What’s being said in the post you quoted is that the people, not the Church, are to blame.

 

[Nine_Two]

Yes, you are allowed to have scars. I have them, and I am 61 years old. I was subject to much of the same thing you were in my Catholic school. It sure was a bit confusing to hear how much God loved you on one hand, while on the other hand the people who represented that God were humiliating you and being abusive to you. What kind of a message was that sending? It affected every area of my life.

However, to me, scars are healed wounds. They may be a reminder of the original wound, but they are healed. What I had for a long time was not scars, but still open, festering, unhealed wounds. A wound has to heal from within and it takes a long time for that to happen, and the base of that wound has to be clean and free from infection. Spiritual wounds require spiritual cleansing, and if you carefully read the Scriptures, you will see that the best cleanser is forgiveness. Forgiveness does NOT mean excusing and condoning wrong actions. It does not mean acting as if these things never happened. It means freeing yourself from the bitterness and hatred and self-pity that keep those wounds open and festering, and keeps you miserable. Others may cause you misery, but the lack of forgiveness will keep you miserable and resentful and bitter, and that is one’s own choice to remain that way.

Forgiveness is so important, that one’s salvation depends upon it. If God was not a forgiving God, we would all be toast. We’d all get what we really deserve. Jesus hung on that Cross and begged His Father to forgive those who had tortured and beat Him and crucified Him. He was, in effect, asking His Father to forgive all of OUR sins, which is really what put Him on that Cross in the first place. We pray the Lord’s prayer and ask God to forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive others. That’s pretty tough language. It’s telling us we must forgive if we want to be forgiven. Forgiveness is not an option, it is a requirement.

I don’t know you, so I cannot judge the degree to which you have forgiven, I can’t judge the state of your soul in this matter. But I can tell you that if you are harboring resentment and bitterness toward certain people and their actions in your life, perhaps you have wounds that haven’t healed yet and need some attention. Only you can judge that. But if you have scars, remember they are healed wounds, and when you mentally look at them they are also reminders of how NOT to treat people so that you don’t inflict the same wounds on others. They can serve a good purpose. These are some of the things I’ve learned and am still learning in this matter.

This post is right on.

When I left the Anglican movement I was left with festering wounds, likewise when I turned from the evangelical movement I had festering wounds.

It took spending a month in a foreign country with a group composed entirely of protestants from those two groups (plus one Catholic), before I was ready to forgive.

 

[HeWillProvide]

Nice try.

What do you mean, Nice try?

Nice try to what?

 

[HeWillProvide]

What age is Confirmation in the Catholic Church? Do you feel this is an appropriate age that one has a full knowledge of the Catholic Church teachings? When does one have full knowledge of the Catholic Church? Better yet, when does one have full understanding of God?

Merry Christmas!

Confirmation is around 13-15, in my church. Confirmation is not receiving everything we need to know about Catholicism. Age 13-15 is not a fully mature human being - they are therefore not given the title “adult.” The body/brain is still maturing.

 

[peary1]

It seems like many former Catholics use their childhood experience as the reason for leaving the Church.
Is this fair, to base your entire faith on what you experienced from ages 0 to say, 17? Is this age mature enough to have a legit opinion of, and the full knowledge of, the Catholic Church?
What do you think?

Most former Catholics leave the Church because either they do not agree with one or more of its teachings concerning sex (i.e., sex outside marriage, birth control, homosexual acts, divorce, etc.) or they are engaged in some type of behavior that the Church refuses to accept. Some use their experiences from so-called ’ childhood’ as a reason for leaving, but it goes way beyond that.

Those that leave usually find some type of generic ecclesial sect that accepts everything they believe. Sadly, their salvation is in jeopardy.