Is it hard or easy to get to hell?

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rpp said:
No, the Church DOES NOT say there is no hope in this case. In fact, the Church says exactly the opposite.
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The Church teaches that if one dies with a mortal sin on his soul, he will go to hell unless that person has the ability to make a perfect contrition. If this is not the case, please elaborate.

Thanks.
 
theistgal said:
But is all the “instant information” out there correct?

I actually think that makes it a lot more difficult for the ordinary person who is seeking the Truth. For example - just now I went to “Google” and typed in “which is the true Church?” The very first website that popped up was by a Mormon apologist!
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Yes, you make a good point.

What I was trying to relate to the OP (and not so clearly) 😊 was that unless you’re living on another planet, it’s difficult to claim invlincible ignorance about many things.
 
expectthebest said:
What if you try to repent but are not able to make a perfect act of contrition. Then you are hit by a bus on the way to confession. Doesn’t Church teaching say you have no hope in that case?
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Dear Expectthebest:

That is not the CC’s teaching (as one other poster above also tried to tell you). While I believe 100% I am correct, and do believe my Priest’s explanation of that also to be correct, I do think I will refer you to your Priest for the answer to that question. Also do reallize I am a catechumen in RCIA. It is very very important for you to understand about the Cc’s teachings about repentance, absolution, intention, desire of repentance, perfect and imperfect contrition. An understanding of this will aid you in your walk with Christ.

Christ our Redeemer is always our Hope. We need to follow Him and follow the teachings of His Church.

Also, just as a general response or post well maybe this is something for another post…but it always seems to me that love of God and thankfulness of Christ’s sacrifice would lead one to perfect contrition…, even though I understand the difference between perfect contrition and imperfect contrition…maybe I just have been graced with perfect contrition. I’m not explaining this well, sorry. 🤷
 
expectthebest said:
The Church teaches that if one dies with a mortal sin on his soul, he will go to hell unless that person has the ability to make a perfect contrition. If this is not the case, please elaborate.

Thanks.
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Nope. The Church teaches that perfect contrition can procure forgiveness of mortal sin absent sacramental confession. It does NOT teach that it’s the ONLY other possible means of procuring forgiveness of mortal sin. Just that it’s the only one that we know of. So we can’t presume that there are other means, we can’t presume that there aren’t other means.
 
LilyM said:
Nope. The Church teaches that perfect contrition can procure forgiveness of mortal sin absent sacramental confession. It does NOT teach that it’s the ONLY other possible means of procuring forgiveness of mortal sin. Just that it’s the only one that we know of. So we can’t presume that there are other means, we can’t presume that there aren’t other means.
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Thanks LilyM, I had said a prayer that you’d come by this thread again and clear this up!
 
LilyM said:
Nope. The Church teaches that perfect contrition can procure forgiveness of mortal sin absent sacramental confession. It does NOT teach that it’s the ONLY other possible means of procuring forgiveness of mortal sin. Just that it’s the only one that we know of. So we can’t presume that there are other means, we can’t presume that there aren’t other means.
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Why would the Church not know? How and when sin is forgiven is a major foundation of our road to salvation. Isn’t this something that the Church while having the fulness of the Truth should be able to dfine for us?
 
expectthebest said:
Why would the Church not know? How and when sin is forgiven is a major foundation of our road to salvation. Isn’t this something that the Church while having the fulness of the Truth should be able to dfine for us?
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While we’re at it, why doesn’t the Church just tell each of us personally whether we’re going to heaven or hell when we (or our parents on our behalf) ask for baptism, save everyone time and effort by refusing to baptise those who are hellbound anyway, and be done with it! After all, God knows who will be saved, and He gives the Church the fullness of truth pertaining to salvation, right?

There are things God chooses not to reveal to the Church or to us. This is so that we will all remain ever vigilant in regards to our souls, ever striving to be holy, ever preparing as best we can be to meet Him.

This gives greater glory to Him and allows US to gain more merits and graces than would, for example, just telling us the hour of our death and letting us slack off for our entire lives (minus an hour or two for a quick visit from the priest for confession and last rites).

Well, the very best way to prepare is the sacraments, including sacramental confession. So it stands to reason that God, knowing that confession is the very best thing for our souls, would want as many of us as possible to make the fullest possible use of it.

So he chooses not to discourage us from it by telling us too many ways around it. Rather like a parent who wants their child to study hard, because it’s the best road to success, doesn’t fill their heads with stories of high school dropouts who did good (because most don’t, right?)
 
LilyM said:
While we’re at it, why doesn’t the Church just tell each of us personally whether we’re going to heaven or hell when we (or our parents on our behalf) ask for baptism, save everyone time and effort by refusing to baptise those who are hellbound anyway, and be done with it! After all, God knows who will be saved, and He gives the Church the fullness of truth pertaining to salvation, right?

There are things God chooses not to reveal to the Church or to us. This is so that we will all remain ever vigilant in regards to our souls, ever striving to be holy, ever preparing as best we can be to meet Him.

This gives greater glory to Him and allows US to gain more merits and graces than would, for example, just telling us the hour of our death and letting us slack off for our entire lives (minus an hour or two for a quick visit from the priest for confession and last rites).

Well, the very best way to prepare is the sacraments, including sacramental confession. So it stands to reason that God, knowing that confession is the very best thing for our souls, would want as many of us as possible to make the fullest possible use of it.

So he chooses not to discourage us from it by telling us too many ways around it. Rather like a parent who wants their child to study hard, because it’s the best road to success, doesn’t fill their heads with stories of high school dropouts who did good (because most don’t, right?)
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Wow. Talk about reaching. Maybe revealing who is going to hell ahead of time might be a bit cruel (though some would think sending people to hell in the first place is also not very nice). But letting us know after a person is dead would certainly be a source of motivation. Especially since apparently we can tell if certain individuals have made it to heaven be declaring them to be saints.

Sounds to me like this whole after life thing is just wishful thinking.
 
cerad said:
Wow. Talk about reaching. Maybe revealing who is going to hell ahead of time might be a bit cruel (though some would think sending people to hell in the first place is also not very nice). But letting us know after a person is dead would certainly be a source of motivation. Especially since apparently we can tell if certain individuals have made it to heaven be declaring them to be saints.

Sounds to me like this whole after life thing is just wishful thinking.
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In Catholic theology, judgment on our lives isn’t complete until we die. Until that point, we still have the opportunity to repent or be condemned. Sure, God knows what we will choose, but it is still our choice to make.

And as for telling us whether a person is in heaven or hell after they died, well exactly how would such a notice be communicated? I suspect even if it was communicated, there would be a population that wouldn’t beleive it anyway. They would most likely be the same people that don’t believe there’s a heaven or hell now. As Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke’s Gospel, “those that weren’t convinced by the words of Moses and the Prophets won’t be convinced if someone rises from the dead.”
 
paul_c said:
In Catholic theology, judgment on our lives isn’t complete until we die. Until that point, we still have the opportunity to repent or be condemned. Sure, God knows what we will choose, but it is still our choice to make.

And as for telling us whether a person is in heaven or hell after they died, well exactly how would such a notice be communicated? I suspect even if it was communicated, there would be a population that wouldn’t beleive it anyway. They would most likely be the same people that don’t believe there’s a heaven or hell now. As Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke’s Gospel, “those that weren’t convinced by the words of Moses and the Prophets won’t be convinced if someone rises from the dead.”
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Hate to point out - canonisation actually IS a declaration that a person is in heaven. So some at least we DO know. It’s communicated by means of two thoroughly investigated miracles (one in the case of a martyr) performed after death, plus extensive (and I mean EXTENSIVE) investigation into the person’s life.

I don’t think there COULD be a similar process for determining who would be in hell - anti-miracles? Looking for evidence of unrepented evil (impossible to gauge since repentance can occur up to the very last breath)? And I suspect that the moral of the story of Lazarus and the rich man would be spot on, sadly.
 
I suspect even if it was communicated, there would be a population that wouldn’t beleive it anyway. They would most likely be the same people that don’t believe there’s a heaven or hell now. As Jesus said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke’s Gospel, “those that weren’t convinced by the words of Moses and the Prophets won’t be convinced if someone rises from the dead.”
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I think there would always be someone who would not believe or more likely would simply reject God with the knowlege he is real. If those in the afterlife, whether in Heaven or hell were able to speak to us in a very public and unmistakeable way, It would certainly have great affect. Even more could be said if Jesus continued to appear to us and preach as he did after the resurrection.
 
expectthebest said:
I think there would always be someone who would not believe or more likely would simply reject God with the knowlege he is real. If those in the afterlife, whether in Heaven or hell were able to speak to us in a very public and unmistakeable way, It would certainly have great affect. Even more could be said if Jesus continued to appear to us and preach as he did after the resurrection.
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Well, you are right of course. Even Saul was converted when confonted directly by the risen Christ. But few are granted such a direct proof and the one’s that are bear tremendous responsibility.
The vast majority of as are called to believe through the witness of others. This is an impediment to the proud ,the arrogant, and the one’s who are naturally distrustful but comes easy to the meek and the clean of heart.
 
paul_c said:
Well, you are right of course. Even Saul was converted when confonted directly by the risen Christ. But few are granted such a direct proof and the one’s that are bear tremendous responsibility.
The vast majority of as are called to believe through the witness of others. This is an impediment to the proud ,the arrogant, and the one’s who are naturally distrustful but comes easy to the meek and the clean of heart.
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I don’t mean to sound mean but don’t you mean the gullible?

And it would be easy enough to communicate who has been naughty or nice. A simple website with a decent database engine would work. Maybe some streaming video as well. Sure some would still reject it but anyone in the least bit predisposed to believe in such things would convert in a heart beat.
 
cerad said:
I don’t mean to sound mean but don’t you mean the gullible?

And it would be easy enough to communicate who has been naughty or nice. A simple website with a decent database engine would work. Maybe some streaming video as well. Sure some would still reject it but anyone in the least bit predisposed to believe in such things would convert in a heart beat.
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You must be kidding, really. Would anyone believe a list on the internet? Any good website designer could fake one. That really would be for the gullible.

People will be believe in they are predisposed to do so. Some believe in nothing other than themselves…
 
expectthebest said:
Why would the Church not know? How and when sin is forgiven is a major foundation of our road to salvation. Isn’t this something that the Church while having the fulness of the Truth should be able to dfine for us?
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A shorter answer, in conjunction with LilyM’s excellent response is simply that the Church is run by people. While true the is guided by the Holy Spirit, human knowledge will always be incomplete and imperfect. Unlike God, the Church is not omniscient. Do confuse “fullness of truth” with “totality of truth”.
 
rpp said:
A shorter answer, in conjunction with LilyM’s excellent response is simply that the Church is run by people. While true the is guided by the Holy Spirit, human knowledge will always be incomplete and imperfect. Unlike God, the Church is not omniscient. Do confuse “fullness of truth” with “totality of truth”.
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Can one have fullness of truth without totality of truth?
 
expectthebest said:
Can one have fullness of truth without totality of truth?
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Yes. Consider quarters. If I collect all of the quarters in my house, I have the fullness of quarters. Does that mean I have the totality of all quarters everywhere? Of course not.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
Yes. Consider quarters. If I collect all of the quarters in my house, I have the fullness of quarters. Does that mean I have the totality of all quarters everywhere? Of course not.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Mark, respectfully, that example does not make sense. God is the totality and the fullness of Truth. Are you saying that His Chuch lacks either?
 
expectthebest said:
Mark, respectfully, that example does not make sense. God is the totality and the fullness of Truth. Are you saying that His Chuch lacks either?
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Lets be clear:
Everything the church teaches is TRUE. But the church doesn’t know everything.

For instance,
it knows that there are 3 persons in one God but doesn’t know how that works exactly. This is a mystery.

It also knows that man has free will and that God has a plan but it doesn’t know exactly how God’s plan incorporates man’s free will without minimizing either the free will or God’s soveriegnty.

It doesn’t really know what heaven is like: other than full of joy and peace

it doesn’t really understand the nature of purgatory, other than the fact that sins are purged there and that pray can reduce the amount of purification required.

It doesn’t know the true nature of hell, other than its described as a fiery place and it has the pain of being separated from God.

It can know that some are in heaven through the miracles they do on earth, but it can’t be sure of the placement of those without obvious miracles.
 
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