Is it ILLEGAL to have a rosary hanging from the mirror?

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There is quite a bit of difference between pulling someone over for a minor violation because your profession experience leads you to suspect they are committing a more serious offense and stopping a driver because you just heard your in-laws are coming for an extended stay. Of course, police officers are human and have bad days; that’s why you always speak courteously to them since they have a great deal of discretion in issuing warnings v a summons. And some are hard-nosed; they do drive around looking for minor violations that the next PO would overlook. That’s why it’s to the driver’s advantage, as well as being his responsibility, to know the laws in his state. If the officer in the CT case had testified that the driver was driving in a distracted manner (which would be a completely subjective judgment and one that any experienced PO could easily justify) and that he felt the object hanging from the mirror was to blame for that, rather than admitting he made the stop every time he saw something dangling in front of the driver, the ruling might have been very different.

There’s also a reason I’ve been driving for fifty-two years and have never received a ticket for a moving violation.
Speaking courteously won’t help you when there is a photo radar van set up literally 20-30 feet from where the posted speed increases by 15 mph. Waiting until you have *actually passed the sign for the increased speed limit *will. That would be 40 mph in a 30 mph zone, truly a matter of car lengths from the 45 mph sign. Yes, some people would call that set-up “hard-nosed” enforcement…:rolleyes:

What difference does it make to me whether or not some police office is just having a bad day or whether he is a jerk all of the time? What difference does it make to me if there is only one officer in a 100 who is a jerk? If I don’t hang anything from my rearview mirror in a state with a rearview mirror statute, that is one less chance that he will choose to be “hard-nosed” with me. Of course he might pull me over and issue me no citation because my rearview hanging is in fact legal according to the laws of that state and I treat him like a human being who is just doing his job, but why would I want the stress and bother of being pulled over at all? He’s just doing his job, but I have a life to live. A harmless run-in with him is not on my to-do list. Ever.

(Before you protest that it is unfair to presume that anyone who wears the uniform of a city, county or state police force could ever fairly be described as “a jerk,” please ask some of your friends and relatives in law enforcement about that. I suspect you have a less realistic view of their colleagues than they do.)
 
And let’s not forget it’s not only law enforcement who have bad days. I work in a criminal courtroom and I can’t tell you the number of in-car videos that I have seen where the police officer has been extremely professional in the face of some of the most vile things being yelled at them. I saw one video where the defendant actually threatened to come after the cop and kill him and his family. Why? Because the police officer had the audacity to pull the driver over for such “petty” things as driving down the road at 2AM with his headlights off, so drunk the driver couldn’t stand up, AND had his wife and two minor children in the car.

Are there law enforcement officers who are just looking for a reason to pull people over? Maybe. But would you want every person in your profession painted with the same broad brush as the bad apples in your profession? I don’t think so. I would urge people not to do it to law enforcement.
 
And let’s not forget it’s not only law enforcement who have bad days. I work in a criminal courtroom and I can’t tell you the number of in-car videos that I have seen where the police officer has been extremely professional in the face of some of the most vile things being yelled at them. I saw one video where the defendant actually threatened to come after the cop and kill him and his family. Why? Because the police officer had the audacity to pull the driver over for such “petty” things as driving down the road at 2AM with his headlights off, so drunk the driver couldn’t stand up, AND had his wife and two minor children in the car.

Are there law enforcement officers who are just looking for a reason to pull people over? Maybe. But would you want every person in your profession painted with the same broad brush as the bad apples in your profession? I don’t think so. I would urge people not to do it to law enforcement.
The issue isn’t that every police officer does this kind of stuff. The issue is that SOME do, and because of the culture and policy of the “brotherhood” which denies the existance of these individuals and actively engages in victim blameing and threatening and represssing anyone who complains, there isn’t a blessed thing the average citizen can do about it without becoming victimized further.
 
You have a responsibility as a driver to know what the laws are in your state and abide by them. If you don’t like your state’s regulation regarding hanging objects from your rear view mirror, take it up with your state legislature. The police officer’s duty is to enforce the laws, not make them or ignore them because they’re “nitpicky.”.
As the wife of a police officer, you know that is a bunch of bunk. A PO very much gets to pick and choose what laws he enforces and when. I have been speeding quite handily and been let off because the PO likes my college team on my bumpersticker, I have been let out of tickets because he liked the gun I was carrying etc. Many laws are revenue boosters, like the fact that seat belts are required in some states where helmets are not required for motorcyclists. Or in my current state where if you get a DUI you can ride a scooter without a licence. 🤷 Some laws are not for safety but revenue and POs can enforce them or ignore them. They do it all the time on almost every stop.

Ever been doing more than 10 over but still get a 10 under rate ticket? Why? So the PO can seem like he is doing you a favor while writing you a ticket. Which I think is a good idea, it allows the officer to do a job and takes some heat and pressure off of him.

I can tell you right now that many POs probably know nothing of what a rosary even is and are annoyed by it because a lot of their exposure to it could have to do with gang activity or Mexican culture. And they may have a bias against it. I can tell you that not a PO in the world, not even your husband whom I am sure is a wonderful PO would tell someone to remove a tassle from the POs old high school or handicap plaque from the mirror. The law, most likely was enacted to prevent reflective blinding things from being hung as a distraction to OTHER drivers, not so much the driver of the car. Ever had someone with a tiny crystal or disco ball in their mirror? Guess what it looks like when the sun hits it right? A Police Cruiser’s lights.

If what you state is true then each stop should warrant multiple tickets and there should be no warnings or selective enforcement. Police officers are trained to spot infractions. If you were followed for 10 minutes, and pulled over you should have a handful of tickets. And you are advocating that should happen, that a police officer has a duty to not selectively enforce the law.

I have a lot, and I mean a LOT of friends and family that are Police or FBI. If I were pulled over by my friend from Church, officer “Mike” do you think I would get a ticket? Nope,
Short of a dead body hanging out of my trunk I’m good.
All my FBI uncle has to do is show a badge and he is on his way.

Selective enforcement is probably the number one thing a PO does. And that is the way the system is set up. But we should not fool ourselves and think that some POs cannot less than noble about it.🤷

I would be broke and in jail if they did not selectively enforce the law. And so would you.
 
To wit, the old adage “One is presumed to know the law” is basically a farce, court’s cant even agree on the same issue, there is so much case law out there.

What about INTERstate travel, one could hardly expect a motorist to be familiar with every law, criminal or vehicular, in every state they travel through. It may be permitted in yours but forbidden in others.
That is a good point. While Gun toting fellows like me are well versed in interstate gun law, most are not when it comes to moving violations from state to state.

So if poor old Aunt Judy who is 90 and has Glaucoma and lives in SLC needs some good ole fashioned refer and drives to Colorado, but her Rosary is hanging in her mirror she may get a Colorado summons for having the Rosary but not for the Pot in the seat next to her. In Utah, it is probably the reverse…
 
And let’s not forget it’s not only law enforcement who have bad days. I work in a criminal courtroom and I can’t tell you the number of in-car videos that I have seen where the police officer has been extremely professional in the face of some of the most vile things being yelled at them. I saw one video where the defendant actually threatened to come after the cop and kill him and his family. Why? Because the police officer had the audacity to pull the driver over for such “petty” things as driving down the road at 2AM with his headlights off, so drunk the driver couldn’t stand up, AND had his wife and two minor children in the car.

Are there law enforcement officers who are just looking for a reason to pull people over? Maybe. But would you want every person in your profession painted with the same broad brush as the bad apples in your profession? I don’t think so. I would urge people not to do it to law enforcement.
Police officers refrain from giving jerks what they deserve–that is, the most hard-nosed treatment that the law allows–the vast majority of the time. I don’t think that anyone here blames them for the times that they do. I don’t think anyone here is under the impression that the general public is not far worse-behaved as a whole than anyone who deserves to be called “professional,” let alone a police officer who deserves to be described that way. When it comes to unfair treatment, no one can argue that the police don’t get far more than they ever dish out.

The point is that most of us want more than anything else to avoid being pulled over EVER and that there are ways to achieve that other than simply avoiding behavior that is objectively dangerous or even technically illegal. It is also important to not do things that look suspicious or make an officer wonder what you’re up to. It is important not to do things that are irritating. It is important not to give pretexts for getting pulled over.

For instance, if a teen does not want to be pulled over, he’s better off not cruising up and down the same street with three of his friends. Is it legal to go driving up and down the same stretch of road with three of your teenaged friends, just for the fun of it? It most jurisdictions, it absolutely is 100% legal, provided you make all the trips in a law-abiding manner, following whatever limitations are in whatever anti-cruising ordinances that are in effect locally. If you do that, are you going to make law enforcement wonder what else you are up to “for the fun of it” on that particular weekend evening? Of course you will. You are acting just like four young men might when they aren’t particularly concerned with whether or not their fun is illegal. They are going to keep an eye on you. If you do some small thing they have probable cause to believe is illegal, they may want to pull you over, just to get a closer look. It is wise to be warned about that.

If you are going to go cruising up and down the road with your teenaged friends and you are ready to be pulled over for a friendly talk with a police officer, you are wise to not have any friends with you who are mouthy idiots. If one of them says something stupid–“hey, don’t let him look for the pot in the trunk”–then everybody is going to be getting out of the car, too. It is like going through an airport with idiots who think it is funny to make bomb jokes. No one with any sense is going to do that.

Likewise, you don’t want a novice driver behind the wheel at 2 am. Is it legal? Sure it is. The problem is that a novice driver looks a lot like a drunk driver. Most drivers on the road at 2 am are not novices. Therefore, if you drive like that at 2 am, a sensible officer will look for a reason to pull you over and have a closer look at your condition, because the chances that he is actually suspecting an innocent novice driver are not very high. Do everyone a favor, novice driver. If there is someone sober and experienced who can drive at 2 am, let them drive, instead. Ride shot-gun, and help the experienced driver keep an eye out for drunks. They are probably out there.

If my state had a law about stuff hanging from the rearview mirror, I’d stay on the safe side and keep everything off of my rearview mirror. If that rare officer is out there in a bad mood that lowers his tolerance level, let him pull over someone else. I don’t have anything to hide. I just don’t think anything good will happen for me or the officer if I get pulled over.
 
As a criminal defense attorney, those horror stories you hear about cops DO happen. More frequently than you think. Enough that you should be concerned. Enough to tarnish the image of however few “good cops” there are. Enough that I don’t trust any of them.

Enough that people respect me more as a defense attorney than they did when I was a prosecutor.

If you are stopped by police, you realistically won’t be able to be completely silent. So be as succinct as possible. No apologies. No excuses. Tell him you’re not sure why you are stopped.

Also, you are NOT required to do DUI/DWI tests! Except the official breath or blood test. I can’t tell you not to do those, but how does the official breath or blood test help the officer’s overall determination? And how does it benefit you to do it?

Regarding objects hanging from mirror though, you need to have your front view as clear as possible. Having an object in front of your windshield can cause your eyes to focus on the wrong thing.

There are way too many overregulations, but this is a good law.
 
As a criminal defense attorney, those horror stories you hear about cops DO happen. More frequently than you think. Enough that you should be concerned. Enough to tarnish the image of however few “good cops” there are. Enough that I don’t trust any of them.

Enough that people respect me more as a defense attorney than they did when I was a prosecutor.

If you are stopped by police, you realistically won’t be able to be completely silent. So be as succinct as possible. No apologies. No excuses. Tell him you’re not sure why you are stopped.

Also, you are NOT required to do DUI/DWI tests! Except the official breath or blood test. I can’t tell you not to do those, but how does the official breath or blood test help the officer’s overall determination? And how does it benefit you to do it?..
By DUI/DWI tests, do you mean field sobriety tests? Since police officers are routinely courteous enough to use “please” and “thank you” even when asking for things they have full authority to command you to do, how do you know what they do not have the authority to command you to do something? Do you ask, “Is that a request, or are you being polite about what you are legally requiring me to do?”

If you are certain you can pass the test and yet you know the officer had probable cause to pull you over on suspicion of driving under the influence–because you were changing a CD or doing some other stupid thing that made you weave or whatever it was you did–taking a field sobriety test can presumably keep you from getting arrested. You may just get a moving violation for your driving errors and be allowed to go on your way. Is that not a reason for taking them?

Just out of curiosity, how do you turn down a field sobriety test? “With all due respect, sir, I do not take tests I am not required by law to take.” Or how do you do it? When are the police allowed to require you to get out of your car?

PS Much of what I know about this subject is from a book titled, “How Not to Get Arrested,” which is written by a defense attorney who used to be a Dade County police officer as well as an agent for the FBI. His view of the police is even more cynical than mine, but he worked in some rather rough areas where the policing involved some real pieces of work living among the general public, to say the very least. (I refer to wealthy drug dealers and their wealthy Florida clients.) His take on it was this: The police are like hunters, cruising around looking to capture some very bad people, because a big part of their job is in capturing a certain number of offenders each month. Most of them are not concerned about avoiding giving people an arrest record, especially when it comes to stupid people. Take the trouble to not look like those bad people. It is worth your time, and it saves that officer his time, too.

The criminology instructor gave the example of an angry member of the general public who was going through the phone book at a public phone booth on a Friday night, ripping out the pages in apparent frustration. When an officer asked him what he thought he was doing, this fellow responded very rudely. The officer booked the foolish man for “destruction of the property of a public utility” which is a felony. The arrested man got to sit in jail until the DA came in on Monday morning. The DA decided not to press charges, so the man was released, but meanwhile the rude man spent two days in jail. The moral of the story was: “Do not be rude to police officers. They’re not judges, but they do have legal ways to make your life unnecessarily inconvenient. If you deserve it, they will use them, so don’t be an idiot.”

I hope it goes without saying that this all implies that wise people take the most wise precaution: They don’t break the law.
 
By DUI/DWI tests, do you mean field sobriety tests? Since police officers are routinely courteous enough to use “please” and “thank you” even when asking for things they have full authority to command you to do, how do you know what they do not have the authority to command you to do something? Do you ask, “Is that a request, or are you being polite about what you are legally requiring me to do?”

If you are certain you can pass the test and yet you know the officer had probable cause to pull you over on suspicion of driving under the influence–because you were changing a CD or doing some other stupid thing that made you weave or whatever it was you did–taking a field sobriety test can presumably keep you from getting arrested. You may just get a moving violation for your driving errors and be allowed to go on your way. Is that not a reason for taking them?

Just out of curiosity, how do you turn down a field sobriety test? “With all due respect, sir, I do not take tests I am not required by law to take.” Or how do you do it? When are the police allowed to require you to get out of your car?
Those are great questions.

Easiest one first: Police can ALWAYS ask a driver to get out of his car (Pennsylvania v Mimms). This is, among many things, to avoid drivers reaching for things, like guns. Interestingly, one of the justices who wrote dissents to this case was Thurgood Marshall, the first black US Supreme Court justice.

For the harder questions:

If you check your state law, “DUI/DWI with refusal” refers to refusal to take the breath or blood test. NOT the FSTs!

For confirmation, check your state’s jury instructions. These are what we use to instruct the jury on the law before it returns a verdict.

So yeah, you are NOT required to take the FSTs! 😃

Now, how do you refuse? That’s a good one.

You can refuse by being firm but positive. Something like, “I’m sorry but I do not wish to take the tests.” Realistically, they might turn nasty on you. To which you say, “Sorry but state law does not require me to take the tests.”

Should you refuse?

The key here is that it’s all about the officer’s OVERALL determination. A cop can simply say, “I saw you run the red and you reek of alcohol, so I’m gonna arrest you for DUI right now.”

But, is what the officer did enough of an overall determination? Sober people run reds, and the “alcohol smell” thing is a myth. (Ethanol doesn’t smell, and beer smells more than Everclear.)

Here’s my story: I’ve personally been stopped before after one beer. I was pressured into the eye test, but I was doubtful that the eye test would show that much, and the cop agreed that I was not above the legal limit. He even tried to ask me how impaired I felt from 1-10, to which I said “one.” After a lot of talking about how contact lenses make my eyes red, and insisting that I was not impaired, and that it’s an unfamiliar town so I didn’t see the no left turn, all I got was a warning. 😃

So, if you honestly know you’re not impaired, then take the tests because if you don’t, police will use it against you and start acting nasty.

But if you know you’re toast, then refuse the FSTs. After all, what looks worse for the overall determination? Bad FSTs, or no FSTs?

The cop will act nasty and you’ll likely be arrested, but if you think you’re toast, I’m more concerned about getting you not guilty in trial rather than whether you spent a night or two in jail. Gotta think long term.

Regarding the breath or blood test, once again, I can’t advise you to break the law. Here it’s easier to refuse, just say no. The cop will happily arrest you for refusal. But, just like with FSTs, if you’re toast, what looks worse? A test of .08, or no test at all?

Something to think about…
I hope it goes without saying that this all implies that wise people take the most wise precaution: They don’t break the law.
Yes. Like with medicine, prevention is best.
 
In my state it is illegal to hang things from the rear view mirror.

That being said, I have never heard it enforced, though I expect it may.
 
In my state it is illegal to hang things from the rear view mirror.

That being said, I have never heard it enforced, though I expect it may.
What are we to do with all those pine tree air fresheners being sold in stores just begging good Catholics to break the law. 😉
 
It depends on the county and state, but yes it is often against the law to hang anything from the rear-view mirror. In my state you can’t even hang those parking passes that are completely covered in the back by the mirror while driving.

As for being pulled over for the plates or the rosary, that seems to depend on the officer. My husband got approached while filling the gas take one time because our license plate was really worn and didn’t have all of the background anymore. We purchased it used, so we have no idea how it got like that. My husband didn’t receive any citation or even get his license run. It was an FYI thing. Which is probably what happened with the rosary issue.
 
Unfortunately when I see a Rosary hanging from a rearview mirror, my first thought is gang banger – I work in a criminal courtroom and a huge number of our gang member defendants – even the ones in jail – come into the courtroom with a Rosary around their neck. I want to shout at them to remove it because they desecrate the wearing of a Rosary by their actions, but I don’t because I’d like to keep my job 😃
Right there with you. I live in an area where there is a lot of gang activity. And what do you know, the thugs that are willing to kill at random, rob, rape and vandalize the community are the ones with the Rosaries hanging off their necks and in the car window. It drives me just nuts.

It is such an insult and contradiction to the meaning of the Rosary and God. I oft wonder if they realize how really dangerous it is to display such an article of Faith and commit the kinds of sins they do while doing so? I don’t think God thinks much of it.
 
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