Is it immoral to cross a picket line?

[HomeschoolDad]

I don’t cross picket lines, I’ll put it that way. I will always take the side of labor. You hear management claiming “we are under such pressure to produce results”, “we have to maximize shareholder value and profit”, and so on, but at the end of the day, they have job security, whereas non-unionized workers don’t. I would like to see a world where all hourly workers, who haven’t the power to hire and fire, are unionized.

 

[REPENT]

In my area, the auto union is corrupt. For example, there was the annual county fair that the union wanted an entire week off so their workers could go to enjoy. Management said no. So the union workers all just went up and walked out and went to the fair anyway. An entire week’s worth of production wasted because the union thought it deserved a week off whenever it felt like it.

Just because a union exists and they are on strike don’t assume it is for a good and moral purpose. And as others have stated, you are the consumer. What ever grievance that is going on between the union and management is between them and not you.

 

[Socrates92]

I guess it all comes down to your view of the right of workers to form a union for the purpose of collective bargaining

They have that right. What they don’t have a right to is a given result.

and whether you wish to express your solidarity with their cause

This is a distinct issue, and purely situational. If I thought the demands were unreasonable, and it were a job that I needed I wouldn’t hesitate to adopt “scab” status.

 

[Socrates92]

You hear management claiming “we are under such pressure to produce results”, “we have to maximize shareholder value and profit”, and so on, but at the end of the day, they have job security, whereas non-unionized workers don’t.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Is management never fired?

 

[jeannetherese]

That’s true. And papal encylcals have been written supporting labor.
They are important and they are also historical documents.
I’ve never crossed a picket line and I’m not about to do so now.
However, I wish that unions solely focused upon basic wages and benefits as they did back when those encyclicals were written.
Some social issues adopted by many unions are problematical. I can imagine some Catholics deciding that they have fewer reasons to honor picket lines than they might have back when Rerum Novarum was written, and I would respect their reasons given these changes.

https://www.fpiw.org/blog/2015/09/09/are-your-dues-funding-planned-parenthood/

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

You hear management claiming “we are under such pressure to produce results”, “we have to maximize shareholder value and profit”, and so on, but at the end of the day, they have job security, whereas non-unionized workers don’t.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Is management never fired?

I wouldn’t say they’re never fired, but more often than not, they are able to work situations to their advantage, and they have an “in” with people in power positions, which is how they got to be in management in the first place. Good people skills and situational skills will take you far in this world, in a way that mere talent or expertise (without those skills) sadly cannot. Almost without exception, they also have good networking skills, so that even if they do get fired or laid off, they land on their feet in short order at another company. They also very often invest considerable time, money, and effort into getting and staying on the good side of those who hold the levers of power — endless socializing, entertaining, recreation such as golf or boating, and so on — “spending money I don’t have, to buy things I don’t want, to impress people I don’t like”, as the saying goes.

Put another way, they’re not powerless peons who live paycheck to paycheck, can get fired at will, and be left destitute.

 

[VonDerTann]

Unfortunately I respectfully think you’re reversing things: the management most certainly can be fired at will; at will employment is the norm in the USA.
You can be fired for any reason or no reason, provided the reason isn’t so bad as to violate public policy (i.e. Because of your race or gender).

Union members by contrast can almost ever be fired. Anyone who deals with unions on a regular basis is familiar with the ways collective bargaining allows member to almost never be fired without long grievance processes.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Unfortunately I respectfully think you’re reversing things: the management most certainly can be fired at will; at will employment is the norm in the USA.
You can be fired for any reason or no reason, provided the reason isn’t so bad as to violate public policy (i.e. Because of your race or gender).

Union members by contrast can almost ever be fired. Anyone who deals with unions on a regular basis is familiar with the ways collective bargaining allows member to almost never be fired without long grievance processes.

And that is why I support unionization of all workers who do not have the authority to hire or fire.

Yes, it is true, management can be fired at will (unless they have some kind of employment contract, as is often the case), but for the reasons I cited above, it is not nearly as prevalent, and it does not have the disastrous life consequences that it does for people “at the bottom of the ladder”.

 

[VonDerTann]

I’m sorry, you’re veering into unsupported class warfare here: it’s not as bad to be fired when you’re management as opposed to anyone else? Being fired for the middle class or upper middle class is just as traumatic and terrifying as it is for the working class.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I’m sorry, you’re veering into unsupported class warfare here: it’s not as bad to be fired when you’re management as opposed to anyone else? Being fired for the middle class or upper middle class is just as traumatic and terrifying as it is for the working class.

How is it “class warfare” to defend labor and to point out that management, more often than not, has numerous “cushions”, “safety nets”, “golden parachutes”, and extensive networks of fellows (elite alumni networks, family ties, possibly even Masonic connections), that mere laborers do not have?

A middle- or upper-management level person should have a large savings and investment portfolio, should live actually beneath their means (so as to be able to save and invest more), and all in all, be able to absorb a temporary loss of income without losing their home or being unable to feed their family. I have much less ability to feel sympathy for someone who might have to sell the BMW, not renew their country club membership, and — horrors! — take their kids out of the elite academy they go to, and send them to public school, than I do for the single mother who struggles to meet rent every month on her cheap apartment, and has to go to the food pantry every so often, so her children can eat. Homelessness is a thing.

 

[StudentMI]

How is it “class warfare” to defend labor and to point out that management, more often than not, has numerous “cushions”, “safety nets”, “golden parachutes”, and extensive networks of fellows (elite alumni networks, family ties, possibly even Masonic connections), that mere laborers do not have?

Catholic social teaching speaks of the same thing regarding the rich and the poor. Going back to Leo XIII it speaks of the rich having options and the poor having few if any.

 

[StudentMI]

As far as class warfare is concerned the right engages in it too. Just look up libertarian class theory. Even if your run of the mill right winger doesn’t subscribe to everything it claims, they use a lot of the same rhetoric.

 

[Convert3]

My union brother-in-law brags about on some jobs he is in charge of a couple of generators. He goes in and starts them up. Sits around playing games on his phone all day, then shuts them down at the end of the day. That is a union abuse of labor rules that drives up the costs way over what a non union company would charge.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

Some people in my union are routinely fired because they are terrible at their job, consistently late, can’t follow directions, etc. My union has no interest in protecting these people and will also remove such people from the union if they can’t get it together. Not all unions act like the afl-cio and the teachers union. I don’t think I could join those in good conscience.

 

[StudentMI]

Some people in my union are routinely fired because they are terrible at their job, consistently late, can’t follow directions, etc. My union has no interest in protecting these people and will also remove such people from the union if they can’t get it together. Not all unions act like the afl-cio and the teachers union. I don’t think I could join those in good conscience.

Mine is kind of in between the above and the opposite. I see people protected who don’t do their job and also people fired for very little things. It’s weird.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

It’s probably a situation of “who you know” more than anything else. I have found the union hall staff to be very nepotistic at times but still quite reasonable overall for the majority of workers and in their dealings with the contractors. And the contractors are also affiliated in a union type of arrangement as well.

 

[VonDerTann]

I’m sorry, but what you’re saying really is class warfare IMHO. It’s war on the rich, not the middle class…but it is war IMHO.

What you call an “elite academy” I might call “Catholic high school,” and I just don’t see that - and the sacrifices parents make to afford it - as some mark of elitism.

Country club memberships generally require huge initiation fees, often in the form of pledging a bond, as well as annual dues running to the multiples of tens of thousands. Even upper middle class professionals can’t afford those things.

As to assuming what people’s savings “should be,” I’ll say this. I’ve known very rich people; very poor people; and the in-between. What I’ve learned is that it is very easy, in fact seductively so, to count other people’s money. I knew a guy (X) who attacked a friend (Y) who was a lawyer, alleging the lawyer Y was a “fat cat.” The lawyer proceeded to talk about his student loans and all the other costs he had that Mr. X didn’t have: malpractice insurance; rent on his office; suits; dry cleaning costs; extra gas because he had to drive to many courthouses in different counties, continuing legal education courses required under law, etc. He went to a good but by no means Ivy League school and had all sorts of costs Mr. X didn’t have.

Look, there are truly obscenely rich (and BTW those peoples’ millions are often given to many charities!) but I respectfully detect an undercurrent of almost joy that maybe some upper-class person might get foreclosed on or “have to sell their BMW.” I hope I’m wrong, and I know from your many excellent posts that you don’t think that. But as a Catholic Christian, I wouldn’t want anyone to experience the pain of losing a home or having to pull kids out of a private school, rich or poor - heck, kids are the most innocent of all, regardless of their social standing.

 

[StudentMI]

As to assuming what people’s savings “should be,” I’ll say this. I’ve known very rich people; very poor people; and the in-between…

I wanted to add, not in direct reply to your post but just a sort of tangent, that Catholic social teaching does teach that the poor should be frugal and save what they can. Unfortunately there is a lot of waste spent on diversions and similar things.

 

[Allegra]

Usually “crossing the picket line” means to accept a striking worker’s position, thus undermining the strike. I personally find that to be generally immoral to do scab work, however, there are probably some instances where it isn’t. I know lots of people disagree, but I don’t think that most people strike for petty reasons.

 

[StudentMI]

Usually “crossing the picket line” means to accept a striking worker’s position, thus undermining the strike. I personally find that to be generally immoral to do scab work, however, there are probably some instances where it isn’t. I know lots of people disagree, but I don’t think that most people strike for petty reasons.

I’ve heard of some ‘scabs’ being brought in under pretty dire circumstances for themselves personally. Didn’t seem to be an easy decision for them, but it proved necessary for them and their families.