Is it immoral to enjoy violence in entertainment?

[Alterum]

Two examples that immediately come to mind are computer gamers that purposefully go over-the-top in terms of violence, and those zombie horror films where the only real appeal is seeing zombies get blown apart. Is there anything wrong with enjoying this sort of entertainment (not disproportionately so, but occasionally), and if so, what, specifically?

Thanks in advance

 

[Kirane]

Alterum:

Two examples that immediately come to mind are computer gamers that purposefully go over-the-top in terms of violence, and those zombie horror films where the only real appeal is seeing zombies get blown apart. Is there anything wrong with enjoying this sort of entertainment (not disproportionately so, but occasionally), and if so, what, specifically?

Thanks in advance

I think it is wrong to have violent lust in our thoughts. I prefer to be peaceful and to be kind and gentle in my thoughts.

 

[Eileen_T]

Like enjoying the scene in 50 First Dates where drew Barrymore’s character chases after and beats up the guy with the baseball bat. Loved it!

I believe most people realise that what they see in a movie is not real. When it comes to Games I do have a problem with it, because it involves active participation.

 

[vz71]

Eileen T:

I believe most people realise that what they see in a movie is not real. When it comes to Games I do have a problem with it, because it involves active participation.

I agree completely, and have my own evidence of this.

I find many violent movies relaxing. The more harm done to the characters, the more enjoyment.
Kill Bill, Saw II, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Jaws, and any movie with Sonny Chiba are among the most enjoyable movies I have watched.
But note it is ‘characters’ -not people.
Likewise, I watched The Passion of the Christ. I knew it to be a real event, and was shaken. There was none of the typical enjoyment with a violent movie at all.

.02 duly deposited.

Z

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

I find many violent movies relaxing. Z

I think that this is completely wrong. To find violence relaxing is wrong and can contribute to the casual attitude concerning the genocide that is taking place in Darfur with hundreds of thousands of innocent people being killed and nobody cares about it.

 

[vz71]

Read the rest of my post.

There is a distinct difference between movie violence against fictional characters and real violence committed against real people.

Z

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

There is a distinct difference between movie violence against fictional characters and real violence committed against real people.

Z

I am still against movie violence because it could contribute to a casual attitude toward real violence, and we see this casual attitude toward violence in the fact that nobody cares about the genocide which is happening in Darfur. How many threads do you see where people are protesting this genocide? I am for peaceful situations and the minimising of a lust for violence. I think it is best to be in harmony with peace and to shun and oppose violence. But these violent movies have numbed people to the horror of real violence. Here on the topic of moral theology, Catholic people are concerned about NFP and birth control, living together and oogling men. But it seems that no one cares about hundreds of thousands of people brutally and barbarically massacred in Darfur.

 

[vz71]

Kirane:

I am still against movie violence because it could contribute to a casual attitude toward real violence, and we see this casual attitude toward violence in the fact that nobody cares about the genocide which is happening in Darfur. How many threads do you see where people are protesting this genocide? I am for peaceful situations and the minimising of a lust for violence. I think it is best to be in harmony with peace and to shun and oppose violence. But these violent movies have numbed people to the horror of real violence. Here on the topic of moral theology, Catholic people are concerned about NFP and birth control, living together and oogling men. But it seems that no one cares about hundreds of thousands of people brutally and barbarically massacred in Darfur.

I will still disagree. As stated earlier, the Passion of the Christ was very moving, and heartwrenching to watch. My viewing of other violent movies in no way numbed me to the reality.

Also, I would also disagree with your contention that catholics do not care about genocide because you cannot find a thread on it. Start a thread on it yourself. Watch the activity and responses that you get to it.
Don’t assume because no one has started a thread on a subject that Catholics do not care about the subject.

Z

 

[Magicsilence]

Act as would Christ.

That should be your only guide.

Would he be at the front row of the cinema watching a violent film, or outside constantly praying that those watching it would not be influenced in a bad manner by it.

Your time on earth is limited, why would you want to waste time watching immoral/violent films?

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[thistle]

Magicsilence:

Act as would Christ.

That should be your only guide.

Would he be at the front row of the cinema watching a violent film, or outside constantly praying that those watching it would not be influenced in a bad manner by it.

Your time on earth is limited, why would you want to waste time watching immoral/violent films?

In Christ.

Andre.

I’m somewhat curious about who you are and what you do.
From three threads I see that :

1. You do not want people to watch immoral/violent movies (you haven’t defined immoral or violent, and as far as I know apart from pornography there is no Church list banning Catholics from watching movies)
2. You don’t want people to watch any tv at all (that means you don’t want us to even watch EWTN which is the main worldwide Catholic channel)
3. You want all women fully covered head to foot and don’t want them wearing make up or spending time on their hair (that’s very demeaning and oppressive towards women and what you advocate is not advocated by the Church).

 

[Kirane]

thistle:

I’m somewhat curious about who you are and what you do.
From three threads I see that :
…
3. You want all women fully covered head to foot and don’t want them wearing make up or spending time on their hair (that’s very demeaning and oppressive towards women and what you advocate is not advocated by the Church).

Do you think that this is related to violence ? I am opposed to violence and I am in favor of peace and good will. Also, I think that people should oppose the massacre and genocide in Darfur. Now you are talking about women and their headcovering and makeup. Is this related in some way to the topic of violence in movies or even violence in real life situations like we are seeing today and like we saw during the Armenian holocaust?

 

[Magicsilence]

thistle:

I’m somewhat curious about who you are and what you do.
From three threads I see that :

1. You do not want people to watch immoral/violent movies (you haven’t defined immoral or violent, and as far as I know apart from pornography there is no Church list banning Catholics from watching movies)

Sorry I came across as being harsh. I think that it is not unreasonable to think of immoral/violent movies as being off limits. Hmmmm, no Church list? The Church doesnt make a list of what we can/cannot do in every aspect of our lives. It gives us as much as we need, there is a point when we “just know” whether something is right or wrong even when the Church has not officially said anything. I would define immoral as something which represented an immoral stance and actively encouraged it, and violent as anything you would not want a child to see. I guess that includes pornography and anything that leans in that direction.

1. You don’t want people to watch any tv at all (that means you don’t want us to even watch EWTN which is the main worldwide Catholic channel)

Is that so unreasonable? We have access online to thousands of spiritual guides, books written by saints, and anything else can be find in our local library, if not purchased through Amazon. Do you need EWTN?, I have heard it seems to promote some very liberal ideas from time to time. HOWEVER, I do not think that it is a good idea for most people to not watch it. As one develops in their faith, they will not need it so much and would eventually want to drop it, but I would agree it can be a powerful tool for conversion.

1. You want all women fully covered head to foot and don’t want them wearing make up or spending time on their hair (that’s very demeaning and oppressive towards women and what you advocate is not advocated by the Church).

This is off topic, but still. I believe that if a woman dresses in a way that causes men to ogle at them, then it is wrong wrong wrong. Most Catholic women before this century who took their faith seriously were dressed in a habit similar to a nuns, is it so unreasonable to ask that this be continued. Trousers are NOT for women, I have recently noticed how a skirt (though i know it can be irksome at times for you Im sure), gives a woman dignity and respect. I have never had to look away because it is not revealing anything. Even loose trousers to a degree show the shape of a persons body. A nuns habit is perfect, I can gaze upon the pictures of saints without a lustful thought coming to mind. Even Gemma Galgani, who was extremely beautiful, did not cause one evil thought to spring to mind, because of the way she was clothed. The devil had nothing to throw at me.

All I am saying thistle is that we should try and imitate the saints. I cannot see them wasting time watching immoral films, watching tv, or dressing in tight jeans and a low cut top, wasting time on their appearance, or looking for make up to exaggerate their eyes. OK, husbands and wives, make yourselves beautiful for each other, but dont lose focus of the purpose of this life.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[vz71]

Magicsilence:

All I am saying thistle is that we should try and imitate the saints. I cannot see them wasting time watching immoral films, watching tv, or dressing in tight jeans and a low cut top, wasting time on their appearance, or looking for make up to exaggerate their eyes. OK, husbands and wives, make yourselves beautiful for each other, but dont lose focus of the purpose of this life.

In Christ.

Andre.

I thought the question concerned violent entertainment. Not immoral movies. There is a difference.

Z

 

[Al_Masetti]

Where does one draw the line?

Superbowl? Monday Night Football?

“Topgun”?

“CSI”?

“National Geographic” wild animal shows?

So much of history contains violence… how santized do we want our books, movies and TV programs to be?

 

[vz71]

I am still going to contend that the line sits at the point where one can readily discern fact from fiction.

Z

 

[Rejoice]

I’d like to weigh in with my story. I’m a guy in my mid-thirties, married with two children and one on the way (adopting). I converted to Catholicism 5 years ago. Before that I was Episcopalian for a year. Before that I was an atheist. And until I was a teenager I was a Methodist who didn’t know his faith.

When I was an atheist I was very much steeped in our modern culture. I played all kinds of videogames, watched all kinds of movies and listened to all kinds of music. After becoming a Christian I changed some but not too much. When I became a Catholic, I stopped indulging in pornography and then stopped masturbating. The only reason I did this was because I studied the Catholic Church religiously (ha!) and came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ really did want us faithful to know the Truth (which is Him) and, being God and having the power and will to do so, He built His Church, the Catholic Church, on the rock of Peter and ensured that by the power of the Holy Spirit the fullness of the Truth would subsist in this Church across all ages. It is hard to imagine Jesus, the Good Shepherd, doing anything less. Because anything less would mean abandoning us sheep.

ANYWAY - becoming Catholic changed me. First I followed the Church’s moral teachings. Masturbation was the hardest for me because it was a daily habit since puberty. But the thing that I noticed is how beautiful doing what is right is. You can argue all you want about how unrealistic it is and how unnecessary and how “maybe some people go too far with this stuff (insert behavior here) but not me”… but until you actually make that change and see what great blessings come of it you just can’t imagine the difference. It’s night and day. My relationship with my wife now is so beautiful. I see women in a completely different way now. I appreciate them so much more. I don’t feel less of a man but moreso because I can see the big picture now. I’m not dragged down by lust and fantasy. (Thank God!)

So where am I going with this? Well, my media consumption - videogames, movies, music - did not change when I became Catholic. I was playing Halo 2 and Worms 3D, listening to Paul Oakenfold and Amon Tobin and watching Eyes Wide Shut and The Ring less than a year ago. But I had another conversion. I won’t go into the details because I’m rambling as it is already but the point is that I had a change of heart about media. I now believe that EVERYTHING we surround ourselves with, especially media which is so powerful because it stays with you and rattles around in your brain, can either lead you toward God or away.

I don’t think there’s a middle ground. We’re always either approaching God or backsliding. We can do a lot of things right but if we’re not getting closer to God, trying to love the Creator who loved us first, who loved us so much that He gave us free will to choose for ourselves whether we accept or reject His love, then we’re in danger. What are we in danger of? Being distracted and careless into oblivion. Slowly snowballing our sins until we forget all that God has done for us, until we forget why we believe, until one day we say, “I don’t believe anymore.” If you don’t work at loving your partner, giving yourself up to him or her in self-sacrifice, you are likely to grow cold and distant and to break up. If you don’t work at loving God, giving yourself up to Him in self sacrifice as He did for you on the cross, you are likely to grow cold and distant and to “break up” – fall away.

This is why sainthood is so hard. But it’s what we’re called to. It’s what we’re here for. To be saints. To choose God and love Him back and be holy as He is holy. To love Him means to be like Him. Which is all holy and all good. That means anything that glorifies violence or illicit sex or anything that is disordered according to the holiness that we’re called to is not for us and is seriously dangerous to our eternal souls.

Please don’t dismiss this idea out of hand. I know it must sound whacked to most people. Please try it for yourself. Giving up some of these things (maybe for Lent?) may lead you to the freedom and sense of inner peace that we all want the most and that can only come from God and walking in His ways. Let me say that extricating myself from what I used to hold so dear has completely changed my life again. My kids are so much more peaceful and content. And so am I. And so is my wife. Life is very good.

 

[Celtic_FC]

I think it is immoral if the entertainment is not edifying. I rid myself of a few DVDs on account of the immaturity that was rampant throughout the movies. For example, I trashed Lock, Stock…because of the way death is ridiculed. I still watch Enemy at the…because although people are killed, it is based on WWII.

 

[cynic]

perhaps the topic should be “Is entertainemnt itself a sin” since some people seem to think anything that is distracting leads us away from God. So life should be stripped down to its bare essentials. Worship, work, family duties and NOTHING else. No (non worship) interests, no sport (unless its just to keep fit), no music, no unneccesary travel…

 

[cheeto1]

Yes I do think so. Not just in movies, but children playing at violence with weapons, etc. I believe enjoying violence in movies is an extension of child’s play at violence.

People do think it’s cute to see a child playing war or cowboy
or pirates, but violence against people is not entertaining for
the one that the violence is against.

I wonder how people would feel about children “playing” other
sins like bowing to other gods or adultery or even if they wanted
to play “dishonor the day of the Lord”.

Just listen to the main argument of those who like it: It doesn’t
hurt anything, no real harm is caused. Well, then what positive
thing is gained from it? And how would you feel to know that
someone else is relaxed by watching you suffer?

 

[Kirane]

cheeto1:

Yes I do think so. Not just in movies, but children playing at violence with weapons, etc. I believe enjoying violence in movies is an extension of child’s play at violence.

People do think it’s cute to see a child playing war or cowboy
or pirates, but violence against people is not entertaining for
the one that the violence is against.

I wonder how people would feel about children “playing” other
sins like bowing to other gods or adultery or even if they wanted
to play “dishonor the day of the Lord”.

Just listen to the main argument of those who like it: It doesn’t
hurt anything, no real harm is caused. Well, then what positive
thing is gained from it? And how would you feel to know that
someone else is relaxed by watching you suffer?

I am glad to read this and other posts to see that people here are opposing violence in entertainment. I agree with what is said here. Having too much violence in films could promote an unhealthy casual attitude toward violence in real life.