Is it immoral to hire an illegal immigrant?

[Viki63]

I think there are 2 issues here:
what should we encourage our government to do about the immigrant problem,
and what should we do individually?

We should pressure the government to get serious with Mexico about their responsibility for their own citizens. Right now Mexico is barely holding its own against the drug cartels, so no doubt it will be hard. But the Mexican government needs to continue to take serious steps toward caring for their own citizens. I’m told (don’t know for myself) that a newborn child needing medical care in Mexico will be allowed to die on the street if it’s mother can’t afford to pay for care. That wouldn’t happen here.
We need to be charitable and responsible as individuals. That means that if we own a business, we don’t hire undocumented people. But if we see someone who is hungry, and we have a job he or she can do, there’s nothing wrong with feeding them in exchange for some work, which allows them to retain their dignity.
In the end we will have to answer to God, not the IRS.

 

[Cathyami]

Hiring another and making money are not sins, except in the Marxist mindset.

According to St Paul we must submit, follow, all government laws. According to Jesus, we must give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. In both case, working under the table breaks the laws; these laws must be followed according to Church mandates unless the Church objects to them. In all cases, not providing health care to individuals, is taking advantage of them and in so many other ways also. It all puts legal companies out of existence especially in difficult times such as we are in right now. To me, these are sins.

C

 

[dusty_david]

Unless you dragged them kicking and screaming into this country, I don’t see how it’s unethical.

They came across the border knowing what they were getting into using their own free will. They made a specific choice to be doing it that way. If they wanted the $50, they would have come here legally. It’s as simple as that.

Been living in the great southwest for about 15 years now. Some neighbors here figured out a win/win system. Go to one of home depots where illegals hang out. Tell some illegals to hop into the truck to do some yard work, landscaping, trash removal,whatever. End of the day, drop them off. Once they’re out of the truck, drive away. Don’t pay them a dime. What are they do? Call the police? If the men complain, mention la migra (Immigration) will boot them back over the border. And it schools the illegals in a lesson – don’t cross the border. And you get the work done for free. It’s just that simple.

 

[dusty_david]

The situation I describe happens when the rule of law do not apply to a group of people. Since they’re illegal, they cannot go to the police. They rely on the decency of us citizens not to steal from them. Or worse.

 

[Timothy17]

According to St Paul we must submit, follow, all government laws.

The Apostles were insistent that we obey God first. We cannot violate divine laws. Caesar is not the King of Kings : Christ is. We are to follow all laws that do not violate divine law. If the U.S government were to, say, adopt a one-child policy, enforced with mandatory abortion, then it would not be binding upon Christians as we cannot commit abortion. There are limits to Caesar’s authority, and that is one of the blessings of God and Christ to the nations, as the Gospel and God’s Law safeguards us from tyranny.

According to Jesus, we must give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

People do not “belong” to Caesar. Caesar’s children might belong to him, but we are not Caesar’s children, we are God’s.

In both case, working under the table breaks the laws; these laws must be followed according to Church mandates unless the Church objects to them. In all cases, not providing health care to individuals, is taking advantage of them and in so many other ways also. It all puts legal companies out of existence especially in difficult times such as we are in right now. To me, these are sins.

While I agree that some people can and do take advantage of illegal immigrants, which is certainly sinful, it does not necessarily follow that a Christian would do that, and furthermore we may be aware of the reasons they are in our countries, such as out of desperation, persecution, etc., and we would certainly have no moral objections to hiring these folks. God’s people are to welcome the stranger in our lands. We are not only citizens of our earthly nations, we are much more importantly citizens of Heaven too. We ought to be a refuge for those seeking hope, liberty, etc. I wish Americans would see the gift they are given in folks risking all to live in their nation and amongst them : it honours you to some extent, and people always have value and potential, not only or merely economically but spiritually and “personally” too.

Pax,
Tim

 

[pnewton]

Been living in the great southwest for about 15 years now. Some neighbors here figured out a win/win system. Go to one of home depots where illegals hang out. Tell some illegals to hop into the truck to do some yard work, landscaping, trash removal,whatever. End of the day, drop them off. Once they’re out of the truck, drive away. Don’t pay them a dime. What are they do? Call the police? If the men complain, mention la migra (Immigration) will boot them back over the border. And it schools the illegals in a lesson – don’t cross the border. And you get the work done for free. It’s just that simple.

As a Christian, we must remember that this is one of the most condemned and serious sins in the Bible. People will face the same justice in the next life for this. Cheating a poor man of just wages is terribly evil.

 

[mommyof4]

Been living in the great southwest for about 15 years now. Some neighbors here figured out a win/win system. Go to one of home depots where illegals hang out. Tell some illegals to hop into the truck to do some yard work, landscaping, trash removal,whatever. End of the day, drop them off. Once they’re out of the truck, drive away. Don’t pay them a dime. What are they do? Call the police? If the men complain, mention la migra (Immigration) will boot them back over the border. And it schools the illegals in a lesson – don’t cross the border. And you get the work done for free. It’s just that simple.

Not paying them for the work they did? That’s terrible!

 

[dusty_david]

Not paying them for the work they did? That’s terrible!

Rule of law here in the US does not apply to illegals. It’s not like they will go the police. Or testify against citizens in court. As long as they remain illegal, they take what they can get. And suffer when they get used and abused. Nothing they can do about it.

Lots of people make good money off of Mexicans illegally here in the US. Check out a poultry factory in AZ sometime. Or the fields in Imperial county in CA. Or clothing sweat shops in LA.

 

[mommyof4]

Rule of law here in the US does not apply to illegals. It’s not like they will go the police. Or testify against citizens in court. As long as they remain illegal, they take what they can get. And suffer when they get used and abused. Nothing they can do about it.

Lots of people make good money off of Mexicans illegally here in the US. Check out a poultry factory in AZ sometime. Or the fields in Imperial county in CA. Or clothing sweat shops in LA.

David, I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not. Your basic supposition is incorrect. The “rule of law” applies to everybody. Illegal immigrants are in a unique situation to be sure. However, the rule of law still applies to them. Do you think for one minute that you could assault or murder an illegal immigrant and not have the rule of law apply to you and to them? We all take on the status of “illegal” at times, i.e. going in a 40 in a 35 zone. Nonetheless, the rule of law applies to everyone, especially the rule of natural law, which is promulgated by God. What you’re describing is certainly a violation of natural law (withholding wages), thus a violation of God’s law.

 

[St_Francis]

Been living in the great southwest for about 15 years now. Some neighbors here figured out a win/win system. Go to one of home depots where illegals hang out. Tell some illegals to hop into the truck to do some yard work, landscaping, trash removal,whatever. End of the day, drop them off. Once they’re out of the truck, drive away. Don’t pay them a dime. What are they do? Call the police? If the men complain, mention la migra (Immigration) will boot them back over the border. And it schools the illegals in a lesson – don’t cross the border. And you get the work done for free. It’s just that simple.

Defrauding a worker of his wages is one of the four sins which cry oit to Heaven for vengeance.

 

[St_Francis]

…I’m told (don’t know for myself) that a newborn child needing medical care in Mexico will be allowed to die on the street if it’s mother can’t afford to pay for care. That wouldn’t happen here…

This isnot true. There is a public system in Mexico which serves any Mexican citizen who needs care, as well as state-funded, employment-connected, and private health facilities.

What does occasionally happen is that foreigners are kept in the hospital until the bill is paid.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

This thread shows how the proponents of illegal immigration have twisted even the language of the debate.

Someone could be in the US illegally or work illegally for a variety of reasons.

A non-immigrant might be here temporarily on a visitor’s visa, or a student visa, which do not permit work. Without permission, they could be hired and be here legally, but working illegally.

A non-immigrant could overstay a visa, and if hired would be illegal and working illegally.

Someone could walk across the border and be here illegally, whether he intends to immigrate or just work temporarily.

Seems to me like the best thing to do is what I do: don’t hire anyone who isn’t properly documented. That prevents exploitation by employers and discourages illegals from committing removable (the new way of saying deportable) offenses or lying to immigration authorities.

 

[dusty_david]

David, I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not. Your basic supposition is incorrect. The “rule of law” applies to everybody. Illegal immigrants are in a unique situation to be sure. However, the rule of law still applies to them. Do you think for one minute that you could assault or murder an illegal immigrant and not have the rule of law apply to you and to them? We all take on the status of “illegal” at times, i.e. going in a 40 in a 35 zone. Nonetheless, the rule of law applies to everyone, especially the rule of natural law, which is promulgated by God. What you’re describing is certainly a violation of natural law (withholding wages), thus a violation of God’s law.

Hi Mommyof4:

Apologize. I meant illegals usually are too scared to go to the police when they are abused. The illegals rightly think they will be deported. Therefore they don’t have protection of our legal system. In theory, yes the laws apply to citizens and non-citizens alike. But since the illegals refuse to go the police for protection, they are vulnerable to abuse.

I must make it clear I think abusing Mexicans disgusting. I’m just saying it happens a lot. Common decency – not common sense – just ain’t that common.

 

[mommyof4]

Hi Mommyof4:

Apologize. I meant illegals usually are too scared to go to the police when they are abused. The illegals rightly think they will be deported. Therefore they don’t have protection of our legal system. In theory, yes the laws apply to citizens and non-citizens alike. But since the illegals refuse to go the police for protection, they are vulnerable to abuse.

I must make it clear I think abusing Mexicans disgusting. I’m just saying it happens a lot. Common decency – not common sense – just ain’t that common.

Thank you for clarifying your stance on this. I wasn’t sure if you were approving of this or not from your earlier post. Yes, they are vulnerable to abuse, and I find this very disturbing, too.

 

[markomalley]

I used to be quite judgmental of illegal immigrants until I visited the old country of my parents in Eastern Europe. There I learned that my cousins were illegals in many countries of Western Europe. After I saw how deplorable their living conditions were, I became much less judgmental.

Now I have a landscaping job that would be quite expensive for me to complete, and money is tight–but it has to be done. Would it be wrong for me to dig up some illegals? It would help them, it would help me. Win/win–unless it’s immoral. Is it?

From the CCC:

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
​

Per the above paragraph, political authorities have the right to regulate immigration. Immigrants, in turn, are obliged to obey the laws of their host country.

We have laws regulating immigration in this country. This country has laws regarding who may work here legally. If one attempts to gain employment when not allowed to do so, both the prospective employee and the prospective employer are in violation of the law. Per the above quote from the CCC, that would be morally illicit.

One other point, consider this from the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church:

**298. **Institutions in host countries must keep careful watch to prevent the spread of the temptation to exploit foreign labourers, denying them the same rights enjoyed by nationals, rights that are to be guaranteed to all without discrimination. Regulating immigration according to criteria of equity and balance [643] is one of the indispensable conditions for ensuring that immigrants are integrated into society with the guarantees required by recognition of their human dignity.

​

If the above quote from the CCC isn’t sufficient, consider this one from the Compendium. Putting aside the fact that a person who is present in this country illegally does not have the legal right to have employment in this country, if you were to take advantage of that illegal status in order to pay that person one penny less than what you would have to pay in order to hire a legal resident to do the same work, you will be guilty of exploiting that illegal immigrant.

For example, let us say that a citizen or legal resident of this country would charge you $2 per bag to spread mulch in your garden, but you can pick up an illegal day laborer and pay him $1 per bag. If you pay that illegal day laborer any less than the $2 per bag (even $1.99 per bag), you are guilty of exploiting that illegal day laborer. You are also exploiting him if you do not get his social security number and give him a 1099 at the end of the day’s work (or the end of the job if it’s more than one day). Why? Because he is owed social security for the work he did and so both you and he must pay in for that earned labor. You would have to do so for a citizen or legal resident, so don’t try to get away from it for an illegal resident.

 

[AHapka]

quote=markomalley;7193160] You are also exploiting him if you do not get his social security number and give him a 1099 at the end of the day’s work (or the end of the job if it’s more than one day). Why? Because he is owed social security for the work he did and so both you and he must pay in for that earned labor. You would have to do so for a citizen or legal resident, so don’t try to get away from it for an illegal resident.

Not true if it’s under $600 a quarter. If you had to do it for less, if you paid your kid $4.00 to take the trash out you’d have to 1099 him.

 

[markomalley]

markomalley;7193160:

You are also exploiting him if you do not get his social security number and give him a 1099 at the end of the day’s work (or the end of the job if it’s more than one day). Why? Because he is owed social security for the work he did and so both you and he must pay in for that earned labor. You would have to do so for a citizen or legal resident, so don’t try to get away from it for an illegal resident.

Not true if it’s under $600 a quarter. If you had to do it for less, if you paid your kid $4.00 to take the trash out you’d have to 1099 him.

Does that negate the point? (BTW, if the total paid to a subcontractor is more than $600 for the entire calendar year, the form is owed)

 

[Psalm_51]

Rule of law here in the US does not apply to illegals. It’s not like they will go the police. Or testify against citizens in court. As long as they remain illegal, they take what they can get. And suffer when they get used and abused. Nothing they can do about it.

Lots of people make good money off of Mexicans illegally here in the US. Check out a poultry factory in AZ sometime. Or the fields in Imperial county in CA. Or clothing sweat shops in LA.

This is absurd and ridiculous!!

 

[AHapka]

Does that negate the point? (BTW, if the total paid to a subcontractor is more than $600 for the entire calendar year, the form is owed)

But, you must consider that the illegal came here will full knowledge and consent of what would be happening here. If someone willing comes here and therefore implicitly consents to such treatment, is that taking advantage of them?

 

[DebChris]

But, you must consider that the illegal came here will full knowledge and consent of what would be happening here. If someone willing comes here and therefore implicitly consents to such treatment, is that taking advantage of them?

Does he really come with full consent? Or does he believe that life will be better than it is where he is? The grass is greener.
Does implied consent make abuse moral? If a person comes from an abusive environment, does that justify continued abuse of that person?
Does the mere fact that a person is willing to work long hours for little pay justify meager wages and poor working conditions?