Is it imprudent to get married when only making minimum wage?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mritaliano2015
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mritaliano2015

Guest
I have heard a number of horror stories of traditional Catholic families (also known as trads) going through a financial nightmare because they got married and had children with only making minimum wage or just a little above minimum wage. The majority of them end up living in horrible conditions and extreme poverty. With this being said, isn’t it imprudent to get married only making minimum wage?

My opinion is that if a couple is thinking about getting married, they should have at least an annual income of $45,000 to $50,000. The reason why I say this is because starting a family with an income of $40,000 or less is going to place a family in extremely serious financial problems. Lets face the reality here. We live in a world that consists of many expenses. We no longer live in a world of cottages and villages anymore. Yes, the essentials in life is to have food, clothing, and shelter. Though, the shelter part shouldn’t just be any shelter. It should be a safe shelter, that is, living in an area that is not crime-ridden. Who wants to raise a family in a neighborhood of where you have to worry about getting shot at, having your car broken into, or getting mugged? It costs a good amount of money to live in a decent area that is not crime ridden. I’m not talking about living in a fancy luxurious area that is drenched in materialism. I’m just talking about living somewhere that is just decent … and this costs money to do so.

With all of the above being said, wouldn’t you say that it’s imprudent to get married and have kids only making minimum wage? Shouldn’t a man have a good paying job before getting married?

I know that a good number of trads are very much anti-NFP. Though in traditional Circles, NFP is debated. Some say it’s only ok to use for serious reasons and others say it’s wrong to use no matter what.
 
mritaliano2015 said:
I have heard a number of horror stories of traditional Catholic families (also known as trads) going through a financial nightmare because they got married and had children with only making minimum wage or just a little above minimum wage. The majority of them end up living in horrible conditions and extreme poverty. With this being said, isn’t it imprudent to get married only making minimum wage?

My opinion is that if a couple is thinking about getting married, they should have at least an annual income of $45,000 to $50,000. The reason why I say this is because starting a family with an income of $40,000 or less is going to place a family in extremely serious financial problems. Lets face the reality here. We live in a world that consists of many expenses. We no longer live in a world of cottages and villages anymore. Yes, the essentials in life is to have food, clothing, and shelter. Though, the shelter part shouldn’t just be any shelter. It should be a safe shelter, that is, living in an area that is not crime-ridden. Who wants to raise a family in a neighborhood of where you have to worry about getting shot at, having your car broken into, or getting mugged? It costs a good amount of money to live in a decent area that is not crime ridden. I’m not talking about living in a fancy luxurious area that is drenched in materialism. I’m just talking about living somewhere that is just decent … and this costs money to do so.

With all of the above being said, wouldn’t you say that it’s imprudent to get married and have kids only making minimum wage? Shouldn’t a man have a good paying job before getting married?

I know that a good number of trads are very much anti-NFP. Though in traditional Circles, NFP is debated. Some say it’s only ok to use in serious reasons and others say it’s wrong to use no matter what.
Click to expand...
I see no problem with two people getting married before they’re making a living wage. Having kids when you can’t afford them is generally a bad idea.
 
I think it would be wise for a couple getting married to ensure they are mature enough for marriage, discuss their finances and their own personal views on money management, take a financial management class (like Dave Ramsey or similar), and sit down to make a budget. I also think that if either person is in debt, they need to make a plan as to how they’re going to deal with it together.

I can live on about $15,000 a year and spend every penny of it. I can also live on about $100,000 a year and spend every penny of it. I’ve done both. It’s all a matter of priorities and sacrifice. If you’re both working full time minimum wage jobs, isn’t that about $36,000/year? (I used $9/hr, 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year. I’m in CA) If you had children, you’d pay little in taxes and probably get more money back than you paid out. It would take some managing, but it would be doable with some budgeting skills, especially if you had family around to help out with the childcare or a friend you could swap daycare with.

I would also suggest anyone in a minimum wage job should focus on career advancement for the future. If you come to work a few minutes early each day, are well groomed and polite, work hard while having a great attitude, leave a few minutes late each evening, and ask your boss for honest feedback on how you can improve, what are your chances of getting a raise or a promotion? If they are nil, start looking for another job. Take some classes at the local community or vo-tech college. Learn some skills for a higher paying job. Find a mentor. Make plans with your spouse or future spouse to relocate to a city or state with better opportunities.

But I don’t think there should be minimum income limits for marriage.
 
It might be a good time to consider NFP at this time. I think it’s a serious enough reason to delay children.
 
mritaliano2015 said:
My opinion is that if a couple is thinking about getting married, they should have at least an annual income of $45,000 to $50,000.
Click to expand...
Is it prudent to assume that the annual income will continue to be at least $45,000 to $50,000? To be prudent, one would save money until one has a lump sum that is enough to cover all future costs of having a spouse and children. In other words, the costs of having a spouse and children would not be paid for via future income, extra perhaps for such income as might be produced from safe investments of the savings.

Now, that might seem to be a ridiculous suggestion. You might think that I am mocking your point of view. However, I am not. I think that you identified a genuine problem. I simply happen to believe that the problem is more difficult than what you presented. I have no solution. Maybe somebody else can think of a solution.
 
Only the couple can say.

It would be far harder to get out of poverty once you had a family, no question. But on the other hand, you won’t be living in a stable, or walking 100 miles into exile with a young child, either. 🙂

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
You can’t really lay down a blanket statement like that. Circumstances will vary from couple to couple, from place to place, from time to time. What is universal is that the couple should discuss finances before marriage, and be in agreement on things like spending, credit use, etc.
 
mritaliano2015 said:
I have heard a number of horror stories of traditional Catholic families (also known as trads) going through a financial nightmare because they got married and had children with only making minimum wage or just a little above minimum wage. The majority of them end up living in horrible conditions and extreme poverty. With this being said, isn’t it imprudent to get married only making minimum wage?

My opinion is that if a couple is thinking about getting married, they should have at least an annual income of $45,000 to $50,000. The reason why I say this is because starting a family with an income of $40,000 or less is going to place a family in extremely serious financial problems. Lets face the reality here. We live in a world that consists of many expenses. We no longer live in a world of cottages and villages anymore. Yes, the essentials in life is to have food, clothing, and shelter. Though, the shelter part shouldn’t just be any shelter. It should be a safe shelter, that is, living in an area that is not crime-ridden. Who wants to raise a family in a neighborhood of where you have to worry about getting shot at, having your car broken into, or getting mugged? It costs a good amount of money to live in a decent area that is not crime ridden. I’m not talking about living in a fancy luxurious area that is drenched in materialism. I’m just talking about living somewhere that is just decent … and this costs money to do so.

With all of the above being said, wouldn’t you say that it’s imprudent to get married and have kids only making minimum wage? Shouldn’t a man have a good paying job before getting married?..
Click to expand...
You are entitled to form that judgement. Others may come to a different view, in light of differing circumstances, or their outlook on life. They should be responsible toward each other and their potential children.
 
This is America. No one has to earn minimum wage if they don’t want to.
 
Many couples marry and have children while on a low income. Just because one is presently low income does not mean that one has to stay that way. Education and training lead to upward mobility.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Many couples marry and have children while on a low income. Just because one is presently low income does not mean that one has to stay that way. Education and training lead to upward mobility.
Click to expand...
What is most important is that you have a vocation from God to marry one another.

I can think of one amazing marriage, albeit a bit unconventional, that worked out very well in spite of limited income:

Mary and Joseph.

(Yes, I am idealist. But it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round." ) 🤷
 
Would I say that it’s imprudent to get married and have kids only making minimum wage? Yes, I would. Shouldn’t a man have a good paying job before getting married? I would say yes.

I think the example of “Mary & Joseph” are interesting, but not as posted: They were certainly not rich but Joseph was an artisan/skilled worker. He was not, for example, someone who was destitute nor was he likely to be the “poorest of the poor,” and I don’t think the Holy Family should be held up as example of how, 2000 years later, a man should get married while making a minimum wage. Mary married a man who wasn’t rich but I think Joseph can be held up as a model of someone who could support his family! IMHO, today, it would be imprudent in the extreme to knowingly get married and have children in that situation.
 
I did suggest NFP in the higher above post. I think it’s something a person needs to pray about.

I will get some flack about this, but I often here on CAF people giving advice that is totally secular. I’m not going to elaborate, but to each their own, I suppose.

I’m not saying my view is the right one, just that one needs to look at situations employing the gift of counsel which is one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it’s something one needs to pray about and consider for a pretty good amount of time. In a Catholic marriage there is no going back.

Just my two cents.
 
My parents got married with next to nothing. They both went to school, lived off my Dad’s GI Bill and various odd jobs; they had three kids by graduation. They stuck out the bad years and went on to retire at the top of their professions. It isn’t about the money; it is working together, making good financial decisions and the willingness to sacrifice for the future and each other. Good grief, I don’t make $40,000 now and I have been married for over 30 years! :eek:
 
Catholic1954, I can very much appreciate your and your parents’ situations. However, I would respectfully put forth that - based solely on what I am estimating to be their ages and the times they lived in - life was very different then, financially, in many respects, so much so as to be totally apples & oranges to the lives of young newlyweds today:
  1. Education costs were a mere fraction of what they are today. Statistically much fewer numbers of people went to college and the “tuition explosion” of recent years had never occurred.
  2. Most people - assuming we’re talking about the USA here - worked at the same jobs for extended periods; retired at 65; and had a traditional pension to support them; and here’s a big catch – life expectancy was shorter so pensions could carry people further because statistically people lived maybe until age 70. Now, people live longer; people have increasingly high costs associated with growing older; and the traditional pension has been replaced by 401k plans that most people mismanage or don’t/can’t fund sufficiently.
  3. You say your folks had the GI bill, as well they should. But veterans’ benefits then were very different from menial, $9/hour jobs today. A veteran could get a good education on the GI bill. A high-quality education is very hard on $9/hour, i.e., working at McDonalds.
  4. There was essentially no credit available then. Credit cards did not exist. You were forced to pay cash for things, so you had to save. Circumstances have made it much harder to live in a “saver society” today; there are innumerable things you cannot do without a credit card, like rent a car, and societal pressures create greater desire to “keep up with the Joneses.”
In 2015, it’s just not really possible to support a family on $9/hour, absent literally working 7 days a week; working several jobs, etc., none of which are conducive to a bona fide home life or a realistic future for your future children. On $9/hour you can get an education; many do. But you can’t get an education *and *feed a wife and 2 kids on $9/hour; a dollar can only be split so many ways, and invariably the education gets cast by the wayside.

That’s also why economists have coined the phrase “gold collar jobs” - jobs that are “gold plated,” because you can make enough money at them in your 20s to have an apartment and maybe a cheap new car while others are in college, but where there is not enough growth potential to support a family down the road, not easily, anyways, and young people who opt for the “wife and kids” route, while young, at the expense of a quality education when they’re single, often find themselves in for a long, hard slog associated with being the “working poor” as they get older.
 
One question for all lurkers/posters, that might encapsulate my position on this:

How many hours does someone need to work, at a minimum wage job, to pay for one set of braces for an 11-year-old’s teeth? Note braces are generally not covered by medical insurance.

I rest my case.
 
PolarGuy said:
One question for all lurkers/posters, that might encapsulate my position on this:

How many hours does someone need to work, at a minimum wage job, to pay for one set of braces for an 11-year-old’s teeth? Note braces are generally not covered by medical insurance.

I rest my case.
Click to expand...
Irelevant, Your Honor! Strike that from the record.
 
Good response, Jamal!

Note I’d like to be addressed as “Your Honor.” Where I work, it’d come with a $50k+ pay raise!
 
🙂

On the somewhat more serious side, I would say it’s very much a judgement call that will vary from person to person.

I think we must somehow balance human prudence with a faith-filled perspective of trust in Divine Providence.

The trick is in the Golden Mean.
 
ChurchSoldier said:
This is America. No one has to earn minimum wage if they don’t want to.
Click to expand...
Please don’t assume that simply because someone is in a low paying job that they simply can’t be bothered to do better. Laziness isn’t the only thing that stops people advancing. Some people don’t have the intelligence to do anything other than an entry level job. Others have other, valid, reasons (outside of their control) that prevent them from moving up in their career.

According to Mr Google, the average wage for my job in the US is $19 000*. So basically $9 an hour, based on a 40 hr work week. I am good at my job so I don’t doubt if I lived in the US that I would be on the upper end of what people in my line of work do (as I am here), but there is a natural limit. Could I do better? Not really. I have medical issues that cause all sort of problems. I’ve worked my arse off to be working at all. At 26 I was granted what was expected to be a life long pension by the government - not something that is easy to get - yet now at 32 I manage to work 30 hrs a week and get off that pension. I’ve tried the full time 37.5 but at this point in time it is beyond my ability. Studying to change fields is beyond my ability. Getting promoted? No chance - with my medical issues any company would be crazy to promote me and I’m honest enough about my capabilities to know that isn’t within them anyway.

It’s rather offensive to imply people like me are simply lazy and “choose” to be in my position. I assure you, if I had any “choice” my medical issues are the first thing I’d change about my life.

Been in America wouldn’t change the fact that I’m not in my position by choice but by circumstances. If anything my situation would be even worse in the US. At least in Australia I have access to good medical care. In the US treatment for my condition is out of the financial reach of many sufferers, as they can’t get or hold jobs long enough to pay for it. Not to mention, successful treatment is usually very intensive and doesn’t allow you to work at the same time which throws another spanner in the works.

*For full disclosure, I found two figures. The other was $24 000 a year. Either way, my point still stands. It’s a low paying job that I don’t have the ability to improve upon. Despite the fact I am anything but lazy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top