Is it incorrect to say the Pope is "God's Representative on Earth"?

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My friend (a lapsed Catholic) expressed concern that the Pope would be considered God’s Representative on Earth, when there have been examples of very bad Popes.

My gut reaction is that this is not an appropriate title for the pope, but can anyone delve deeper into this?
 
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sml916 said:
My gut reaction is that this is not an appropriate title for the pope, but can anyone delve deeper into this?
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Is she equally worried that Jesus Himself picked a greedy man who sold Him out to the Pharisees as one of His Twelve Apostles? Or that one one them lied about knowing Him to save his own neck? How about the Apostle who refused to believe He was back? Or the ones who had the arrogance and ignorance to ask to be seated at Jesus’ left and right hands? How about the ones who called for a city to be destroyed? Or when they all bickered about who was the greatest Apostle among them?

Are we not all God’s representatives on earth to spread His Gospel and message? What’s wrong with that? And the Church has bad Popes yes – so too were the Apostles. So too are we.
 
All the baptized are Christ’s representatives on earth. Priests are especially so in a unique manner. Bishops even more so… The Pope alone exercises authority as Christ’s representative over all the Church.
Yes there have been bad popes. Christ gives them unique graces and authority, but they still have freewill.

In the Old Testament, the high priest was God’s representative on earth, and there were bad high priests too. Caiaphas condemned the Lord to death, yes the Gospel tells us that he “spoke by the Holy Spirit” BECAUSE he was high priest. (Jn 11:51).
 
sml916 said:
the Pope would be considered God’s Representative on Earth, when there have been examples of very bad Popes.
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We are all created in the image of God, so we shouldn’t be bad either!
 
So sad that Catholics received such distorted images of authority.

Authority is a charism. The Pope uses the charism in service of Christ and the whole Church. The Pope is also a human being, and just like us, some of them abuse power.
 
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sml916 said:
My friend (a lapsed Catholic) expressed concern that the Pope would be considered God’s Representative on Earth, when there have been examples of very bad Popes.

My gut reaction is that this is not an appropriate title for the pope, but can anyone delve deeper into this?
Click to expand...
The Pope is God’s Representative on Earth in the same way that Prime Minister of Britian is the Queen’s representative.

The Queen doesn’t pick the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister is voted in. So the Queen has to make due with whomever is elected to that office.

It’s the same way with the Pope. God has to make due with whomever is elected to that office.
 
The Pope is indeed the Vicar of Christ on Earth. That means he’s Christ’s representative on earth.

It doesn’t mean the Pope is himself Christ returned to earth, nor that the Pope is without sin.

Just think of him like an ambassador. If the President of the US sends an Ambassador to France, then the Ambassador is the President’s or the US’s representative in France.

The Ambassador to France can of course be sinful, corrupt or not very good at his job.

In the Bible, God is shown to use for his own purposes, or work through, many people who were sinful, corrupt, or just not very good at their jobs.
 
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Fauken said:
My gut reaction is that this is not an appropriate title for the pope, but can anyone delve deeper into this?
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And that’s not even looking at all the sinful, corrupt people whom God nevertheless chose to work through in the Old Testament before Jesus was even born.

Dozens of them. Even David, whom God thought of as one of his best guys, committed significant sins, including adultery and murder, of which he had to repent.
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882 The Pope , Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.
From
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm
The Pope is Peter’s successor.
There have been Popes and Clergy and Laity in the Church who allow their sinfulness to come before their responsibility to Christ and His Church. It is human nature and the nature of evil. Today, as in the decades of history, sin is made the norm and justified and not then considered sin. Examples of this are seen in day to day activities.
 
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sml916 said:
when there have been examples of very bad Popes.
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By the way, does your friend also consider the number of Popes who have been good, or even saints?

There are a LOT of sainted Popes. Of course, if you’re looking for reasons to criticize the Church, you will of course ignore those and focus on the very bad ones.
 
I thought the Holy Spirit was Jesus’ representative on Earth?

ZP
 
The Holy Spirit guides and teaches the Church

687 "No one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."7 Now God’s Spirit, who reveals God, makes known to us Christ, his Word, his living Utterance, but the Spirit does not speak of himself. The Spirit who “has spoken through the prophets” makes us hear the Father’s Word, but we do not hear the Spirit himself. We know him only in the movement by which he reveals the Word to us and disposes us to welcome him in faith. The Spirit of truth who “unveils” Christ to us "will not speak on his own."8 Such properly divine self-effacement explains why “the world cannot receive [him], because it neither sees him nor knows him,” while those who believe in Christ know the Spirit because he dwells with them.9

From
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c3a8.htm
 
Of course I know that the Holy Spirit is one of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. What I’m saying is that Jesus said that His representative would be the Holy Spirit.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
Of course I know that the Holy Spirit is one of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. What I’m saying is that Jesus said that His representative would be the Holy Spirit.
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The idea of the Pope as “vicar of Christ on earth” is that the Pope is the earthly representative of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is not “earthly”. If one believes in Marian apparitions, and that Mary comes to earth on behalf of God/ Christ, she at this point is not “earthly” either.
 
I’m just wondering if any of the Church Fathers use that language, that the Bishop of Rome is “Jesus’ representative on Earth”?

ZP
 
And the Holy Spirit placed bishops in the Church (See Acts 20:28). The bishop as a representative of Christ is nothing new. See St. Ignatius’s epistle to the Ephesians:
CHAP. VI.–HAVE RESPECT TO THE BISHOP AS TO CHRIST HIMSELF.

For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would upon the Lord Himself.
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All bishops are vicars of Christ for their flocks, as the Catholic Church teaches. The Bishop of Rome, as chief bishop, also fulfills this role for the whole Church in the same manner, because Christ, the true Shepherd, entrusted his whole flock to Peter to shepherd (see John 21:15:17) and before that He told him the parable of the Master who appointed his chief steward to take care of his household in his stead (see Luke 12:41-48; note, the chief steward could do a good or bad job and be rewarded or punished accordingly).
 
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Isaiah 22 mentions the “keys” as representing authority from a King. Authority as such is considered an “office”. An “office” is characterized by privileges of legal power. Power is the ability to do things (in this case legally). Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom to Peter. Peter was the first office holder.
 
ziapueblo said:
I’m just wondering if any of the Church Fathers use that language, that the Bishop of Rome is “Jesus’ representative on Earth”?
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The term “Vicar of Christ on Earth” is used in the Catechism, which cites to Lumen Gentium, which uses the term. You can trace back through the references in Lumen Gentium and discussion to see the Vatican’s reasoning and do further research if you are interested in this subject.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Wikipedia also provides an overview of the history of the use of the term. It is not a new term.

 
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