Is it just me who feels betrayed?

[Mandi]

John F. Kennedy:

My son is of an appropiate age to be a server, entering 5th grade, but is unable to do so until 6th grade due to the large number of girl servers. I asked him about it he wasn’t sure if he wanted to do it because of all of the girls doing it. This is the problem.

“The Church” wonders why vocations are at an all time low. This is a prime example of what is pushing along lack of vocations. We are all called to live our station in life. The problem with not just “The Church” but the whole world in general is that people are prusuing vocations where they have no business being.

A women has a very distinct and glorious position to fill in this world but “she” is so busy trying to fill the positions given by God to men that the ones God gave to women are severally neglected…like motherhood!

Altar boys should considered themselves “Knights of the Altar” they are defenders of the faith, they should have examples like St. Isaac Jogues, St. Gerard Majella, St. Martin De Porres etc.

Why do girls feel the need to infringe on what belongs to boys, when they themselves have duties and examples to live by and up too. Saint Dymphna, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Rose of Lima, St. Elizabeth etc.

These are great women and they didn’t become great by saying move over St. John Mary Vianney I’ve got confessions to hear. They became great by following the example of Our Blessed Mother - being handmaids of The Lord, it was their piety, humility, charity. purity that made them great in the eyes of God.

If grils want to serve God (as they should want to do this) than they should serve, the way God wants them to serve!

Prayer for Vocations.

O Lord Jesus Christ, who didst take to Thyself a body and soul like ours, to teach us the glory of self-sacrifice and service, mercifully deign to instill in their hearts the desire to dedicate their lives to Thee. Give us PRIESTS to stand before Thine altar and to preach the words of Thy Gospel; BROTHERS to assist the priests and to reproduce in themselves Thy humility; SISTERS to teach the young and nurse the sick, and to minister Thy charity to all; LAY PEOPLE to imitate Thee in their homes and families.
Amen.

 

[space_ghost]

Seeking Wisdom:

Always wondered about this one. Leave to find a church which is more traditional and conservative or try to make changes in my local parish? As I see it I’m not perfect & neither is my family so why should I expect my church family to be. We should help each other & our church to be more in line with Christ’s teachings & hopefully they’ll do the same for us.

THANKS!

now your cooking with grease my friend… You and I agree…

boy that cooking with grease thingy probably gave away my age…

 

[robertaf]

Good Morning Church

I agree (once again) with Space Ghost. However, I would take it a few steps further.

First of all, in reading your list, I want to beg you not to listen to rumors. For example the one regarding your priest having a girl friend. Try your best to be charitable and loving to him, it would appear he has given quite a lot to the Parish. Not every teen loves their parish and love going to Church as you do. He must be partly responsible for that.
Have you tried discussing some of these things with him?
Secondly, I would check with the Diocese and see if there is a Youth leader there. Make an appointment and go discuss these concerns with him.

I very much like Catholic Answers. I think there is lots of good stuff here. I also think there is a lot of folks who go to extremes. I don’t think you should make life changing choices based on just what you read on discussion boards. Have you talked to your parents about how you feel?

So much of what you read here can sound like excellent arguments, backed up with all sorts of facts. Some of it is personal interpretation. It can happen in exactly the opposit way, you know. My son left the Church because evangelical Christians showed him “facts” right straight from Scripture. This was almost 30 years ago and he didn’t come back to the Church until he was past 40 years old.

You really should sit down and discuss this face to face with someone before moving on.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Sure, no one is perfect.

But the Mass should be. Jesus gave us the Perfect Gift: He gave us Himself in the Eucharist.

The Church He founded has given us the Mass and set forth the way it is to be celebrated. Those who deliberately deviate from it, and from the Church’s moral teachings, are not about to change because they’ve been shown ~yet another~ document from Rome instructing them on the proper way of doing things.

Some people may be ignorant and need to be informed. Others are just plain disobedient. Pro-life Teen’s pastor is blatantly disobedient in the moral lessons he expounds. He is guilty of misleading Christ’s flock on issues as important as homosexuality. This could cost some young people not only their very lives, but their eternal souls as well. And this priest would not be likely to experience a great conversion of the heart if his disobedience was pointed out by a teenager from his parish.

We should give Jesus our very best. And that means attending the Mass which best serves and worships Him, not mocks or disrespects Him and the authority of His Church.

If dissident parishes lost members and contributions, you’d see a different picture here in the US. But, people don’t leave. They continue to support their dissenting pastors, and the cycle of arrogant disobedience continues.

Pro-Life Teen, I’d encourage you to begin studying some of the documents of Vatican II, as well as Redemptionis Sacramentum. RS is nothing new: it is re-iterating the same instructions which have gone on being disobeyed and ignored here in the US. It is again, a call to obedience, which many will still chose to ignore.

Once you’ve studied these documents, ask your parents to have a little “Catholic study time” at home as a family. Help your family to become more educated in their Faith. At the moment, they don’t know what they’re missing! And they don’t realize what they’re supporting! They sound like great parents, fulfilling their vocations in bringing up a good-sized family in the Faith. But it is hard to find time to keep up with “what the shepherd should be doing” while trying to raise one’s family. We shouldn’t have to be watchdogs of our parishes, but that is the sad state of affairs today in the Church.

Please, please read Inaestimabile Donum! [cin.org/vatcong/donum.html](CIN - Inaestimabile Donum - Instruction Concerning Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery)
Here’s a teeny exerpt from the foreward:
"…In these cases we are face to
face with a real falsification of the Catholic Liturgy: "One who
offers worship to God on the Church’s behalf in a way contrary to
that which is laid down by the Church with God-given authority and
which is customary in the Church is guilty of falsification.
None of these things can bring good results. The consequences
are–and cannot fail to be–the impairing of the unity of Faith and
worship in the Church, doctrinal uncertainty, scandal and
bewilderment among the People of God, and the near inevitability of
violent reactions.
The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the
Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church…"
The Vatican doesn’t see liturgical abuses as “little.”
What’s one “little snowball” when rolled down a mountainside?

Good, faithful, obedient Catholics may be misled, or must learn to defend their Faith, even if sometimes against errors put forth by priests.

The Church asks us all to be faithful, and to report abuses.
Abuses not reported and acted upon promptly become scandals.

Pax Christi. <><

 

[J.Kennedy]

“I don’t remember reading that girls are permissible only in times of shortage, I do remember that boys should be encouraged and girls permitted.”

I tried to research it a bit more, my books are not at hand, but I’m pretty sure it was something put out by the Vatican and was quoted by JP II. I’ll have to check out my Mass Confusion edition.

Redemptionis Sacramentum, from earlier this year, while not stating the shortage line, clearly recommends boy servers, then at the end it states women and girls are also to be permitted where the local bishop allows it.

 

[misericordie]

“I don’t remember reading that girls are permissible only in times of shortage, I do remember that boys should be encouraged and girls permitted.”

I tried to research it a bit more, my books are not at hand, but I’m pretty sure it was something put out by the Vatican and was quoted by JP II. I’ll have to check out my Mass Confusion edition.

Redemptionis Sacramentum, from earlier this year, while not stating the shortage line, clearly recommends boy servers, then at the end it states women and girls are also to be permitted where the local bishop allows it.

I really cannot understand the agenda behind having “altar girls”, the purpous of the altar boy, was ans is that they will consider the calling to priesthood, and well, women just cannot be priest. My question is, why did not the Pope Make the NON-women’s ordination, an infallible teaching, ex-Cathedra??

 

[Joanna]

Faithful 2 Rome:

You are not alone…it took me an entire year and 3 parishes before I found one that so far seems to be the real deal…but the anger the original caused me (I volunteered in PPC as well as reader and EM) opened my eyes up to “behind the scenes” of how these people think contrary to the Church, and now I am SULLIED…I do NOT want to assist at my new church and POSSIBLY find out that people arent in favor of the Pope, Church teachings, etc… my bad experience has left me with a “ignorance is bliss” attitude that I have to somehow work thru.



I’m running out of churches and dont need to hear anyone stating how homosexuals deserve…XYZ, Opus Dei is a joke, EWTN cant be taken serious…Relevant Radio is too conservative… nope…dont need to hear that possible blather any longer…

But you know ignorance isn’t really bliss! You can be the “real deal.” That’s what saints are and they shine in the darkness.

 

[misericordie]

Joanna:

But you know ignorance isn’t really bliss! You can be the “real deal.” That’s what saints are and they shine in the darkness.

To call Opus Dei a "joke" as you did, demonstrates your need for a knowlege of what the Pope has SAID of Opus Dei, and it is his personal prelature.  That catholic Church is not a cafeteria where you can pick and choose where you FEEL good.  Anyone who is in Church just to FEEL good, needs a BASIC Catechisis, or religious instruction again.   I am sure too that Mother Angelica would not be very happy with your comment about EWTN either.
A recomendation: seek holiness in a parish that follows the rules of the VATICAN and hence, of GOD.

 

[misericordie]

misericordie:

To call Opus Dei a “joke” as you did, demonstrates your need for a knowlege of what the Pope has SAID of Opus Dei, and it is his personal prelature. That catholic Church is not a cafeteria where you can pick and choose where you FEEL good. Anyone who is in Church just to FEEL good, needs a BASIC Catechisis, or religious instruction again. I am sure too that Mother Angelica would not be very happy with your comment about EWTN either.
A recomendation: seek holiness in a parish that follows the rules of the VATICAN and hence, of GOD.

Joanna, the above is not addressed to you, I made a mistake here, it is regarding “Pro-Life Teen’s” comment.

 

[Joanna]

It’s okay, Misericordie. I sorta figured it out. Peace

It’s probably Faithful 2 Rome you were addressing. :tiphat:

 

[deogratias]

Well I am confused, Pro life teen did not mention Opus Dei

I don’t see that anyone said Opus Dei was a joke -

I did See Faithful to Rome said this,

I’m running out of churches and dont need to hear anyone stating how homosexuals deserve…XYZ, Opus Dei is a joke, EWTN cant be taken serious…Relevant Radio is too conservative… nope…dont need to hear that possible blather any longer…

and he was not saying OP was a joke, he was saying he did not want to hear anyone stating it is or any of the other things.

 

[misericordie]

deogratias:

Well I am confused, Pro life teen did not mention Opus Dei

I don’t see that anyone said Opus Dei was a joke -

I did See Faithful to Rome said this,

and he was not saying OP was a joke, he was saying he did not want to hear anyone stating it is or any of the other things.

I stand corrected, I apologize I made a mistake, oops, sorry all.

 

[deogratias]

Well I have mis-read posts too, I guess we could all slow down a little and read what the person is really saying or trying to say sometimes.

Regarding Opus Dei, I am not sure it would be my particular calling to join it but it does strive for personal holiness, does a lot of good in the world and it’s founder St. Josemaria Escriva is someone I quote quite often. It probably is misunderstood by many Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

misericordie:

I really cannot understand the agenda behind having “altar girls”, the purpous of the altar boy, was ans is that they will consider the calling to priesthood, and well, women just cannot be priest. My question is, why did not the Pope Make the NON-women’s ordination, an infallible teaching, ex-Cathedra??

My guess is that the Pope doesn’t want to make any ex cathedra statements at all. George Weigel characterizes his philosophy of leadership as seeing the model of Christ who “proposed” but did not “impose.” John Paul II stated that the women had already been infallibly excluded from the priesthood through the constant teaching of the ordinary magisterium of the Church - essentially, using the least amount of authority he needed to in order to get the job done. He doesn’t need to proclaim it infallibly because it already is. Unfortunately, this just led to a bunch of liberal theologians disputing his claim as to the constant teaching of the Magisterium. But that’s a whole 'nother thread.

 

[Micki]

newsjag:

I am very fortunate to have a church and church community that follows the guidelines of the church. I am sorry that yoiu are quite upset with yours. I must say that you need to pray for your church.It is sad to hear how we have fallen from what He wants us to be. We can only come to Him daily to ask for His help, mercy, and guidance.

BTW, what was that about females as altar servers? Havent heard of this.

Haven’t heard of female altar servers? WOW, you must be in a very orthodox parish!!

Micki

 

[rfk]

Regarding the people who have advised that it is generally better to stay in a parish, even if it has rampant problems, I just heard Mother Angelica give the opposite advice two days ago.

On a Mother Angelica Classics episode that was originally aired about 15 years ago, she had a priest as a guest. A caller named similar problems in his parish and asked her what to do.

Mother Angelica recommended finding a new parish right away. Paraphrasing her, she said, “Our faith is the most precious thing we have. Why in the world would you want to put it at risk?”

I am a bit fuzzy on this part, but I also think the priest made a follow-on comment about people voting with their feet would make an impact on the collection plate, and how that would be noticed at the Chancery office. (I was sleepy, sorry.)

Regarding altar servers, from Redemptionis Sacramentum

[47.] It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes.[121] Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.[122]

 

[deogratias]

The determination that women and girls may function as altar serves in the liturgy is made by the bishop on the diocesan level. There are a few Dioceses in the U.S. where you will find only males. Even in Dioceses where female altar servers are allowed, a priest is allowed to decline to use them.

 

[buffalo]

misericordie:

I really cannot understand the agenda behind having “altar girls”, the purpous of the altar boy, was ans is that they will consider the calling to priesthood, and well, women just cannot be priest. My question is, why did not the Pope Make the NON-women’s ordination, an infallible teaching, ex-Cathedra??

Don’t you remember a leak that came out in the newspaper in Feb or so about the Vatican banning altar girls? Seems like a huge backlash from the media and other groups. I wonder if it got cut because of this.

 

[deogratias]

I remember it being “proposed” in the original draft of the new changes in the GIRM but that there was a lot of opposition, especially in this country - I think you may be seeing a gentler approach to this - i.e. phasing them out gradually. This should not be viewed as a slap in the face to women (I am one) but rather than the whole concept of having young men serve on the altar was to interest them in the idea of becomin priests.

Many young men reach an age now where they don’t want to serve on the altar with the girls (I notice the girls tend to be kind of bossy to the male servers). Interestingly one of the Dioceses that has no female altar servers also has the greatest number of men entering seminary.

So if it will result in more males being called to the vocation of the priesthood, then I am for finding some other way fo gils to serve the Church.

 

[Marie]

Fast_ed75:

FYI, you want to avoid any of the parishes that are labeled as the 300 “Best” parishes in America book by Paul Wilkes. Paul Wilkes is active in the VOTF/Call to Action heretical crowd calling for women priests and church democracy, openness to sexuality ect. The parishes he lists in his book are for the most part notorious for liturgical abuses.

You are correct. Here is part of an article on what he found wonderful in the parishs he listed.Pro-Life Teen, pick up and get out of there if at all possible. As someone else said, use any parish NOT listed in his book for a starting point.

For instance, Fr. Banuelas tells Wilkes at one point, “I am a dinosaur. Lay people are the future of the church. This is no quick fix. This is a long haul. And we need to make changes, especially for Hispanic Catholics. We are losing them to other churches, because in the Catholic church, instead of honoring and utilizing their rich faith and heritage, we are still trying to assimilate them, make them into Eurocentric Catholics. They are not.”

Later, in discussing the place of priests, he says that clergy “must break down the barriers with the priest up here and the `miserable’ people down there.” He sees, instead, a new vision of church where “people are equals with the priests and the priests will lead, but they will always listen to the wisdom and the breadth of experience of the people. We must welcome them – that is what other churches are doing, and people flock to them – and not put up barricades.”

Said another pastor, “Don’t say much and the people will let you know their needs. Then set about to meet them.”

Parish can do more

And yet another priest referred to a female administrator in a parish without a full-time priest as “the future of the church.” With a lay person in charge, he said, “you have much more lay involvement, so the result is actually a parish that is able to do far more, not less, because of not having a priest here.”

When the bishop arrived, he was greeted “with fierce drumming and elegant dancing,” welcomed “as the chieftan he was.” And by the end of the ceremony, “tears streamed down his face.” He was choked with emotion and admitted that he had never, in all his parish visits, had such an experience. Such confidence and purpose, such community, did not come quickly or easily.