Is it Just Me?

[reneeville]

“to love others and to do well by them and by yourself” How do you define what is “love” and what is “good”? We have many thousands of years of monotheism which has produced for Jews and Gentiles alike the reason for our existence. We know love, for God is love. We know what is good and right because we have the prescription for such. Does that mean that we all comply? Why no, because we (including you) are all sinners; however, we believe in and practice forgiveness because the One who died on the cross for all did just that. Gratefully, I find JOY in the blessing of grace and mercy… it allows me to continue on my path toward my reward.
Sincerely, because grace happens~
Renee

There can be plenty of meaning in life without worshipping a deity. It’s quite simple really – to love others and to do well by them and by yourself. I don’t believe there’s any sort of eternal reward for this (or eternal punishment for not doing so), but then, why does there need to be such a thing as an incentive for us?

Nor does the lack of faith automatically place one in slavery to the material. All it does is make us focus on this life because it’s all we have. Yes, sometimes that does include some kind of slavish devotion to transient pleasures, but not always – and religious people are hardly free of those too.

Bottom line, the absence of God should not be an impediment to doing good; and if you think the presence of God is the main reason people do good, I’d highly encourage you to reexamine your faith very closely.

 

[Mirdath]

“to love others and to do well by them and by yourself” How do you define what is “love” and what is “good”? We have many thousands of years of monotheism which has produced for Jews and Gentiles alike the reason for our existence. We know love, for God is love. We know what is good and right because we have the prescription for such. Does that mean that we all comply? Why no, because we (including you) are all sinners; however, we believe in and practice forgiveness because the One who died on the cross for all did just that. Gratefully, I find JOY in the blessing of grace and mercy… it allows me to continue on my path toward my reward.
Sincerely, because grace happens~
Renee

The ideas of love and good well predate Christianity or Judaism, or even monotheism in general. One does not need belief in a God or gods to be able to love or to consider a thing good.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

The ideas of love and good well predate Christianity or Judaism, or even monotheism in general. One does not need belief in a God or gods to be able to love or to consider a thing good.

That’s only partially true. Whilst “goodness” and “love” are basic philosophical concepts that keep on arising in many different cultures, pre-Christian peoples like the Ancient Greeks did not put much value on them. The Greeks would value success, valour, and favour with the gods. Certainly charity was not extended to non-Greeks.

 

[Mirdath]

That’s only partially true. Whilst “goodness” and “love” are basic philosophical concepts that keep on arising in many different cultures, pre-Christian peoples like the Ancient Greeks did not put much value on them. The Greeks would value success, valour, and favour with the gods. Certainly charity was not extended to non-Greeks.

The ancient Greeks are only one example. What of the Zoroastrians, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Jains, or the Confucians? All of those religions, and others, mandate good behavior towards people, and predate Christianity. To say they placed little value on love is to completely misunderstand them at best.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Mirdath, there is a kernal of truth in all cultures/religions, obviously, because of the Natural Law. But in Christianity, and specifically Catholic Christianity, the kernal of Truth became man and the Living Word of God.

All those cultures/groups which predated this world event were ‘aiming’, if you will, toward it. All those cultures/groups which have followed this event also ‘aim’ but now not only in ‘retrospect’ but ‘simultaneously’, for He has not only Risen, He lives.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

The ancient Greeks are only one example. What of the Zoroastrians, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Jains, or the Confucians? All of those religions, and others, mandate good behavior towards people, and predate Christianity. To say they placed little value on love is to completely misunderstand them at best.

To say that they had an essentially Christian concept and attitude towards love would be to read their culture through a Christian filter, with a good dollop of political correctness thrown in.

Hindus have proverbs rather than moral rules, for instance. Though the light of truth cannot be entirely extinguished, and ultimately a Hindu might be brought to admit that there are good and evil actions as well as prudent and imprudent, or as the Budhhists have it “skilled and unskilled”, the entire basis of their teaching is different.

 

[Nancie_Lew]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view. One side tells the other side they are going to hell. Religions like Hinduism realize that people are different and it accommodates them. You can take any path to god that you choose but most importantly Hinduism and Buddhism both realize that every human being has the potential to become godlike through the process of enlightenment. Through enlightenment a persons destiny is determined by himself rather than at the hands of a manipulating Christian god.

 

[Nancie_Lew]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view. One side tells the other side they are going to hell. Religions like Hinduism realize that people are different and it accommodates them. You can take any path to god that you choose but most importantly Hinduism and Buddhism both realize that every human being has the potential to become godlike through the process of enlightenment. Through enlightenment a persons destiny is determined by himself rather than at the hands of a manipulating Christian god.

 

[bankerdavid]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view. One side tells the other side they are going to hell. Religions like Hinduism realize that people are different and it accommodates them. You can take any path to god that you choose but most importantly Hinduism and Buddhism both realize that every human being has the potential to become godlike through the process of enlightenment. Through enlightenment a persons destiny is determined by himself rather than at the hands of a manipulating Christian god.

That’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. We believe we have the most correct, that other religions get it partially right. We believe that, because we have the truth handed down in succession from Christ Himself, we have the fullness of truth.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Nancie, I’ve been on these forums practically from their inception. The ‘vast majority’ of the posts on here are not ‘protestants, Catholics and Orthodox bickering constantly’ or ‘telling the other side they’ll go to hell’.

Respectfully, that type of blanket statement/judgment/generalization is the mark of a poster who has pretty much made up his/her mind and is searching, consciously and unconsciously, and evaluating with the express desire of bolstering that particular POV, not of actually considering that any other point of view is valid. And I’m not calling you a liar–it’s quite possible that what you personally have ‘seen’ in your perusal of posts, and judging by your own personal ‘judgment’ (you do have an antiChristian bias), this is what you really think.

Still, it is an error. I would like to recommend that you take a look outside the forums (check out the library, etc.) and get a ‘feel’ for what Catholic teaching is, outside of the ‘give-and-take’ and personalities of posters. Then come back and, using that knowledge you’ve gained, examine the posts in the light of that knowledge, and see if you don’t start to find, instead of bickering etc., what the majority of us actually do find here–kind hearts, willing ears to listen, shoulders to cry on, gentle encouragement, steadfast faith, overarching hope, and abiding love.

 

[Kay_Cee]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view. One side tells the other side they are going to hell.

I’ve been on this forum for almost two years, and I’ve yet to see anyone state that those on the opposing side are going to hell. Could you please cite some examples and give us the links to them?

 

[Keikiolu]

Why do Catholics need God in their lives? My life is OK without God. I’m not a Christian. I don’t feel empty in side. In short “LIFE IS GOOD”! Who needs an impersonal god imposing rules and regulations on the way a person freely chooses to live their own life? God only crimps your style? It’s a drag.

But your life DOES contain God,… you just don’t accept that…!



When you find that you need God, as now your “comfort” is beign taken care of by the apparently “nifty” environment around you, check out Catholicism as the most helpful and thorough authority about finding what you need from God.

To address your posting directly:

Why is your life “OK”…?
Why don’t you feel empty inside?
What would “empty inside” feel like?
Why is “LIFE GOOD”…?
Who says God is “impersonal”…?
Where DO you get the rules you DO respect, and why do you respect them?
Why DO you live your life the way you do?
Why wuold you think God “crimps your style”…?
Why do you like “YOUR STYLE”…?
Why is God (religion) a “drag”…?

Le’s have an answer to each of these questions, eh…

…then we can talk about God in your life.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Why do Catholics need God in their lives? My life is OK without God. I’m not a Christian. I don’t feel empty in side. In short “LIFE IS GOOD”! Who needs an impersonal god imposing rules and regulations on the way a person freely chooses to live their own life? God only crimps your style? It’s a drag.

Now your life is fine, but like all things you will die.

So let me pose to you this wager. This is based primarily upon Pascal, but I have added my own modifications.

Let us look at me, I am a Christian. If I live my life believing that God exists (sacrificing illicit pleasures and some autonomy) and I die to find out that He does not exist, I am fine. I will simply rot away and my matter will be scattered amongst the stars.

However if I live my life believing in God (again, sacrificing illicit pleasures and some autonomy) and die, learning that He does exist, I will recieve what I have always desired: infinite happiness.

Now let us observe an Atheist. He/she lives his/her life according to his/her own rules. They die as all things do, only to learn that their assumptions were correct. Nothing happens.

However if the Atheist lives their life according to his/her own rules, and dies only to discover that God exist, the Atheist will be judged accordingly.

As a disciple of Philosophy, I believe I have made the most logical and reasonable descion by being a Christian.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Furthermore, there are deep philosophical reasons for the belief in God.

Take St. Anselm:

1. God exists in our understanding. This means that the concept of God resides as an idea in our minds.
2. God is a possible being, and might exist in reality. He is possible because the concept of God does not bear internal contradictions.
3. If something exists exclusively in our understanding and might have existed in reality then it might have been greater. This simply means that something that exists in reality is perfect (or great). Something that is only a concept in our minds could be greater by actually existing.
4. Suppose (theoretically) that God only exists in our understanding and not in reality.
5. If this were true, then it would be possible for God to be greater then he is (follows from premise #3).
6. This would mean that God is a being in which a greater is possible.
7. This is absurd because God, a being in which none greater is possible, is a being in which a greater is possible. Herein lies the contradiction.
8. Thus it follows that it is false for God to only exist in our understanding.
9. Hence God exists in reality as well as our understanding.

Furthermore take a look at this proof:

1. The existence of something is intelligible only if it has an explanation.
2. The existence of the universe is thus either:
   a. unintelligible or
   b. has an explanation
3. No rational person should accept premise (2a) by definition of rationality
4. A rational person should accept (2b), that the universe has some explanation for its being.
5. There are only three kinds of explanations:
   a. Scientific: physical conditions plus relevant laws yield the Event explained.
   b. Personal: Explanations that cite desires, beliefs, powers and intentions of some personal agent.
   c. Essential: The essence of the thing to be explained necessitates its existence or qualities (for example, if you ask why a triangle has 3 sides, I would respond that it is the essence and necessity for a triangle to have 3 sides by its definition.
6. The explanation for the existence of the whole universe can’t be scientific because there can’t be initial physical conditions and laws independent of what is to be explained. Event the Big Bang theory fails to explain the existence of the universe because modern science cannot explain where the original Big Bang singularity came from. The universe as a sum total of all natural conditions and laws cannot be explained unless we have an Archimidean reference point outside the system.
7. The explanation for the existence of the universe can’t be essential because the universe cannot exist necessarily. This is because, it could have been possible for the universe not to have existed (if the Big Bang had been slightly different it is possible for large-scale structures to not have existed). Thus the universe is not something the must necessarily or essentially exists.
8. Thus a rational person should believe that the universe has a personal explanation.
9. No personal agent but God could create the entire universe.
10. A rational person should believe that there is a God.

However to the question of “which god” I merely point to others on this thread.

 

[Keikiolu]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view.

That’s because one is right, and the others are wrong…!

(( That’s about the most “ecumenical” way I could word that! ))

We bicker because we CARE, just like your Father (God) and Mother (Church) will argue with you (child) when they “know better” than you do, even though you think you know better.

The bickering is ALWAYS between the children and their parents or between the children themselves, and never between the “Parents”, though.

One side tells the other side they are going to hell.

Some ARE going to hell. Some aren’t. That is up to God.

But the Parents know how get to God’s House, and their counsel should be taken.

Religions like Hinduism realize that people are different and it accommodates them.

If people follow the natural law (being “good”) then they may be granted entry into heaven, but if they don’t they more than likely won’t. In any case, it’s up to God.

But people are only superficially different. And there is only one way to know THE BEST way to abide by natural law, and by doing that, discover the wisdom of following Revealed Law (Christ Jesus).

You can take any path to god that you choose but most importantly Hinduism and Buddhism both realize that every human being has the potential to become godlike through the process of enlightenment.

So, you DO believe in God.

If you do, then isn’t it a good idea to find THE BEST way to Him?

What is “enlightenment”…? If you can’t VERY tightly define what enlightenment is, and what it gets you, and whether you REALLY want those things, then what kind of goal is “enlightenment”…?

Through enlightenment a persons destiny is determined by himself rather than at the hands of a manipulating Christian god.

Apparently God doesn’t “manipulate” you…!

God doesn’t manipulate. God offers. What does God offer?

What is “your destiny”…? What is your goal, and just like “enlightenment”, what IS it, and are you really sure you WANT it above all things…?

We all are given free will, by God.
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt1art3.htm

If you do believe there is a God, as you stated, and you do have free will, which I imagine you accept, and you have SOME SORT of “destiny” that you’d like to achieve, perhaps it would be wise to check out one of the “major world religions” as to what 2000 years of collected human experience and wisdom might have to say on the matter…?



Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

What I notice the most on this forum is the constant bickering between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians.There isn’t much tolerance for different points of view. One side tells the other side they are going to hell. Religions like Hinduism realize that people are different and it accommodates them. You can take any path to god that you choose but most importantly Hinduism and Buddhism both realize that every human being has the potential to become godlike through the process of enlightenment. Through enlightenment a persons destiny is determined by himself rather than at the hands of a manipulating Christian god.

Nancie,

The above is your idea of being the ‘voice of reason’? WOW, how enlightening.

Iowa Mike

 

[freesoulhope]

Why do Catholics need God in their lives? My life is OK without God. I’m not a Christian. I don’t feel empty in side. In short “LIFE IS GOOD”! Who needs an impersonal god imposing rules and regulations on the way a person freely chooses to live their own life? God only crimps your style? It’s a drag.

You say “life is good”. That’s all cool, im happy for you . But if God created reality, then in all truth and reality, you do need “God” in your life, to be “happy”; it’s just a matter of whether or not you going to give him the credit

For some, God is a subjective need, so they can feel secure; but if you learn about the Christian faith, you will soon realise that God does not call us just to satisfy are needs, he calls us because he is the “truth”; he is the source of all happiness and joy.

Nobody can truly be happy with out the truth; even if they fool them selves in to believing that they can.

 

[Nancie_Lew]

Now your life is fine, but like all things you will die.

So let me pose to you this wager. This is based primarily upon Pascal, but I have added my own modifications.

Let us look at me, I am a Christian. If I live my life believing that God exists (sacrificing illicit pleasures and some autonomy) and I die to find out that He does not exist, I am fine. I will simply rot away and my matter will be scattered amongst the stars.

However if I live my life believing in God (again, sacrificing illicit pleasures and some autonomy) and die, learning that He does exist, I will recieve what I have always desired: infinite happiness.

Now let us observe an Atheist. He/she lives his/her life according to his/her own rules. They die as all things do, only to learn that their assumptions were correct. Nothing happens.

However if the Atheist lives their life according to his/her own rules, and dies only to discover that God exist, the Atheist will be judged accordingly.

As a disciple of Philosophy, I believe I have made the most logical and reasonable descion by being a Christian.

Are you afraid to die? Do you have any reassurance that when you die you will go to this heaven that Christians talk about? I’m not afraid to die because I believe in reincarnation. Maybe I won’t come back and live as comfortable of a life that I did in this present one but I know I will come back. Nothing in life can really be destroyed. If it rains the rain evaporates and then it rains again. Nothing in life is really destroyed. There isn’t any more matter in the world than when the world began it just naturally recycles itself.

 

[Jaypeeto3]

I think it is very, very kind of all of you fellow Catholics to bend over backwards to witness to nonbelievers. But as one poster here put it, “Christians are funny,” meaning that they are here to make fun of us, not to share. In such cases, we might want to remember Christ’s admonition to us not to cast our pearls before swine, because the pearls will be trampled into the mud, since swine cannot appreciate the value of the pearls.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Are you afraid to die? Do you have any reassurance that when you die you will go to this heaven that Christians talk about? I’m not afraid to die because I believe in reincarnation. Maybe I won’t come back and live as comfortable of a life that I did in this present one but I know I will come back. Nothing in life can really be destroyed. If it rains the rain evaporates and then it rains again. Nothing in life is really destroyed. There isn’t any more matter in the world than when the world began it just naturally recycles itself.

To answer your question no I am not afraid to die. If my concept of heaven is false then I will simply return to dust. Reincarnation is an illusion. You are not coming back because the experiences you have had in this life have defined who and what you are. If you come back you will not be Nancie Lew, you will be something or someone else and what you were will be as though it never existed.

And what if the universe came to an untimely end, collapsing in on itself as some have theorized? This collapse of the gravitational fields would utterly destroy life itself. Then what? What would your orphan anima be reincarnated into?