Is it licit for me to receive Communion? (Cohabitation)

[HolySpirit]

Sorry. I don’t know how to quote from other posts.

My original post begins after my first paragraph.

Or just look at comment 8 if it is easier.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This discussion has gotten incredibly complicated to follow. The first three posters basically told the OP to speak to a priest. I think that, without more, is the best advice.

I have no idea why you would be posting, “Personally, I couldn’t care less if two people shack up” on a thread where the person is no longer “shacking up”, is planning to marry his partner in the Church and provide for their unborn child, is abstaining from sex, and is planning to go to confession. The whole train of thought may be an appropriate discussion for a thread where you have two people just living together without any plans to get married, but on a thread where a person appears to be genuinely trying to do the right thing, there is no need to discuss their past sins that the OP has acknowledged he committed.

It’s possible you may see your posts as just discussion of the general issue and not a judgment on the OP, but because of the placement of the posts and other people’s posts discussing same (not just you, and I’m sorry if my comments seemed to just be blasting you and not others who made similar comments), it comes off a bit harsh on the OP who is trying to do the good and right thing here. Which is why it’s better for people in such situations to talk to an individual priest. I am always worried that these types of threads will have a chilling effect on people who are genuinely trying to return to the Church and live by the moral rules.

 

[HolySpirit]

I agree with you. I stand corrected.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thank you for your charitable response. It is good of you to post that.

I may be more sensitive to this because I used to be a pretty big sinner myself.

 

[HolySpirit]

Thank you for your charitable response. It is good of you to post that.

I may be more sensitive to this because I used to be a pretty big sinner myself.

It was an honest response.

My late mother shared a few similarities with St. Monica if you catch my drift. Without going into details, I had my own Augustine period of my life. There are parts of my past that make me uncomfortable as well.

I am glad that is in my past. I am a far happier person today. God is great!

 

[Pup7]

Do you think that it is healthy for Catholic children to be taught it is normal and healthy for couples to be living in sin and for mothers to be pregnant out of wedlock?

Who is teaching them it’s normal by saying “this is wrong, but you shouldn’t treat the individual any different”?

You are really misinterpreting me here. And as it seems you’ve come around a bit, I’ll leave it here.

 

[Gorgias]

The Holy Spirit will guide the situation through the grace of Reconciliation. The confession will reveal the situation. The Confessor will act accordingly.

That’s a nice thought. Really, it is.

What if, however, it never comes up? What if the confessor never thinks to question the context of the sin as confessed? Are you really saying “the Holy Spirit worked by keeping everyone quiet”?!?!?

 

[Gorgias]

Your CCC references talk about people in a position of power who can “establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to ‘social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible’” (CCC, paragraph 2286, which you didn’t reference and which elaborates on the context and construct of 2284 and 2285).

No, I didn’t reference 2286, only 2284 and 2285. In fact, 2286 brings an additional consideration to light – and, to tell the truth, ‘fashion’ and ‘opinion’ do come into play here. Nevertheless, I didn’t reference 2286 or beyond, for the simple fact that they continue the discussion in a different direction.

Are you really suggesting that the sin of scandal is only applicable to those “who establish laws” and “business leaders”, “teachers”, or “manipulators of public opinion”? If so, you’re misinterpreting the Catechism.

So in my view what you’re saying is the OP’s fellow parishioners are so weak in their conviction and their faith that they can’t possibly adhere to their own catechesis and their own concept of what’s right and wrong simply because the OP and his fiancee are trying to regularize their situation and choose to follow the instruction of a priest.

No, what I’m saying is that there is the possibility (which can only be weighed by his pastor) that there might be parishioners who might misunderstand and be tempted toward sin. That temptation doesn’t come from the attempt “to regularize [the OPs] situation”, but from his reception of the Eucharist, which is the only thing they see (in addition, potentially, to the baby bump and the lack of wedding rings).

the OP and his fiancee are trying to regularize their situation and choose to follow the instruction of a priest.

Patently false. If the OP’s pastor says “go for it!”, then absolutely, they should go for it! The issue is that he needs to talk to his pastor, in order to get the pastor’s recommendation.

 

[Canvas]

Do only Priests you approve of have the authority to grant Absolution?

 

[semper_catholicus]

When did I say that?

 

[thistle]

Did I say a priest wasn’t a priest?

You specified they should go to a “traditional” priest. A priest is a priest. What you said is irrelevant.

 

[semper_catholicus]

When we’re talking about certain priests being equipped to deal with specific issues, then it does matter which priest you go to. I wasn’t taking about sacraments.

 

[Reuben_J]

rcwitness:

Dont you think that Confessing would involve this discussion?

Not necessarily. The sin to be confessed is fornication. “Father, I had sex with my girlfriend ten times over the past five months” is sufficient for absolution.

The time and place for this discussion is at a meeting with one’s pastor, and not in the confessional (even if the pastor is hearing the confession). It’s a discussion that needs to take place, and not a simple matter of “Father, I committed a sin and want to return to Communion.”

Not necessarily either. It is good to have counsel with a priest but it does not take away the grace of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which is a ‘simple matter’ actually. Please do not make it unnecessarily complicated.

I am a cradle Catholic, now quite old already, not that I know everything, but Confession, I know as much. You regret the sins, and know they are sins, and you confess them during Confession, promise God not to commit them again, then what else is there?

Sure there are counsel that we can seek to help us with sins, yet, there is no guarantee that you will not commit the same sin again. That’s why after Baptism, we have the Sacrament of Reconciliation, to take care of those sins, some of which are being committed habitually. The last sentence is not directed at you.

God bless.

 

[MaryT777]

It’s odd to me to think that these two persons who have resolved to live as brother and sister in the Faith are giving more scandal than others in the Church , which is full of sinners including yourself,

How about the married guy that goes to Church that everyone knows (or think they know) is having an affair; the guy in the next pew over who is an alcoholic, the priest who molests a child, etc. Me, the sinner sitting next to you in the pew with my own sinful struggles.

You can have sex anywhere, whether living together or not.

I would not judge, and would consider these people very honest and I trust the OP will keep a celibate lifestyle until marriage.

Scandal has abounded in our own Church and I DO believe where sin abounds grace abounds all the more as is stated in the Bible in Romans.

My mother was pregnant with me and had a wedding arranged before her birth of me. I thank her for giving life despite all that she endured much judgement regarding being the ultimate sinner in her day for women.

She felt like she was wearing a “Scarlet Letter.” She could have chosen other option which is not to carry me to term.

Let us be thankful for the decision this couple has made to change the paths of their lives.

God bless you , your wife, and child to be.

 

[rcwitness]

rcwitness:

The Holy Spirit will guide the situation through the grace of Reconciliation. The confession will reveal the situation. The Confessor will act accordingly.

That’s a nice thought. Really, it is.

What if, however, it never comes up? What if the confessor never thinks to question the context of the sin as confessed? Are you really saying “the Holy Spirit worked by keeping everyone quiet”?!?!?

If the penitent avoided the question he is proposing here on CAF, as he is obviously very concerned about, then he would be intentionally trying to deceive the situation. So yes, if the he was not genuinely following the Spirit, he would keep quiet about this question.

You portray the confessional so rigid and impersonal.

I have never experienced a confessor only concerned about a specific sin, and uninterested in the relative circumstances. If he was, he probably should not be there.

 

[Gorgias]

You portray the confessional so rigid and impersonal.

No, of course not.

I have never experienced a confessor only concerned about a specific sin, and uninterested in the relative circumstances.

Really? Perhaps you’ve only been to a relatively few confessors, then. Or perhaps you’ve gone to a particular type of confessor, exclusively.

By rights, a confessor shouldn’t be playing “20 questions” with his penitents, with the exception of attempting to gain clarification on the nature or scope of a confessed sin.

So, to get from “sex outside marriage” to “the pastoral solution of living as brother and sister” would take quite the leap, and quite the conversation!

If he was, he probably should not be there.

Nonsense. If we wanted to absolve sins and enable people to experience the grace of the sacrament, he should be there!

 

[rcwitness]

Vademecum for Confessors:

When it is the penitent who asks questions or seeks clarification on specific points, even if only implicitly, the confessor will have to respond adequately, but always with prudence and discretion,39 without approving erroneous opinions.

1. The confessor is bound to admonish penitents regarding objectively grave transgressions of God’s law and to ensure that they truly desire absolution and God’s pardon with the resolution to re-examine and correct their behaviour… however, in the absence of sufficient repentance or of the resolution not to fall again into sin.

 

[rcwitness]

Not 20 questions. Just one.

 

[babochka]

The time and place for this discussion is at a meeting with one’s pastor, and not in the confessional (even if the pastor is hearing the confession). It’s a discussion that needs to take place, and not a simple matter of “Father, I committed a sin and want to return to Communion.”

Seems like the confessional is precisely the place for this discussion.

 

[Gorgias]

When it is the penitent who asks questions or seeks clarification on specific points, even if only implicitly, the confessor will have to respond adequately

The Holy Spirit will guide the situation through the grace of Reconciliation. The confession will reveal the situation.

Ahh… so you are saying that they should have this conversation in the confessional, and the OP should bring it up? From your quote (above), it sounded like you were saying, “just go in and let the Holy Spirit guide the confessor to ask ‘oh! that sin of fornication – was it in the context of a cohabitation situation that you want to resolve through the pastoral solution of living as brother and sister?’”

If what you meant was that the OP should explicitly bring it up in the confessional, then we’re back to my original objection: the confessional isn’t the place for that discussion.