Is it logically possible that God could lie and send someone to hell even though they were holy

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Ben_Sinner

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I’m not talking about the Roman Catholic interpretation of God.

I am just speaking in general. Can an all powerful, all knowing God who also has the ability to create love as well be logically able to lie about himself?

I’ve had this fear that maybe God is just taking me for a ride and I’m just a brain in a vat that he is using for an evil prank. He is making an illusion of reality out to be that the Chrisitian faith is the path to salvation and if I follow his commandments (illusions of a man named Jesus, these message boards, the CCC, etc), I will be saved…but in reality he’s going to send me to hell…just because he wants to troll me and gets a kick out of confusing me.
 
If God did that, He is certainly wasting His time suffering & dying for us and enduring sacrileges & indifferences in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar.

Besides, we know that there are saints in heaven that answer our prayers & appear to us. The Blessed Mother at Fatima would have also been lying since she is trying to save the world from hell. I’d think the omniscient God would know that He would enjoy people in heaven with Him more since they glorify Him for all eternity.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
If God did that, He is certainly wasting His time suffering & dying for us and enduring sacrileges & indifferences in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar.

Besides, we know that there are saints in heaven that answer our prayers & appear to us. The Blessed Mother at Fatima would have also been lying since she is trying to save the world from hell. I’d think the omniscient God would know that He would enjoy people in heaven with Him more since they glorify Him for all eternity.
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True.

I was speaking in the context of God creating me in a brain-in-a-vat type of situation where Jesus and the saints in history are only illusions he put in my brain to give “evidence” of his goodness and truth just to get my hopes up.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
True.

I was speaking in the context of God creating me in a brain-in-a-vat type of situation where Jesus and the saints in history are only illusions he put in my brain to give “evidence” of his goodness and truth just to get my hopes up.
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God likely would not have a need to have your brain in a vat in order to do this…seemingly He could do so even while you might be awake…yet were He so inclined it would appear to be for a very strange purpose…for what might an all powerful being gain in the sense of a prank that He could not equally have staged while you were still alive…?
 
Ben_Sinner said:
True.

I was speaking in the context of God creating me in a brain-in-a-vat type of situation where Jesus and the saints in history are only illusions he put in my brain to give “evidence” of his goodness and truth just to get my hopes up.
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Do you have any evidence that your brain is in a vat? If not, why do you continue to entertain this idea?
 
No.

Flawed human failings are not nor ever will be a characteristic of God.
 
Scripture has it that God is true, and is the Spirit of truth (Gospel of John).
 
If you are a brain in a vat then what am I? A figment of your imagination? You are not a brain in a vat. You are a brain in a skull.😃

To answer your question. If God were like the Roman gods then the answer to that would be anyone’s guess. Since those gods were capable of doing either good or evil.

However, the Christian conception of God is that he is all good and incapable of lying since he creates the truth. If God said the moon was made out of cheese then the moon would be made out of cheese. His word has the power to effect what it declares. God has no need to lie since he can create whatever truth he wants. Yet, the truth that he creates is consistent with his nature that is all good.

God can be defined as the greatest conceivable being. Since goodness is better than evil therefore God must be perfectly good to be worthy of the title of supreme being. Socrates himself recognized this. Socrates rejected the Roman gods since they were not consistent and contradicted each other. Socrates knew that the God must be all good.
 
Very insightful answers.

I’ll ask a follow-up question…

Is it logically possible for the ultimate being (God with a capital ‘G’) to be imperfect? Such as lying, not knowing everything, committing evil, etc.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Very insightful answers.

I’ll ask a follow-up question…

Is it logically possible for the ultimate being (God with a capital ‘G’) to be imperfect? Such as lying, not knowing everything, committing evil, etc.
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Imho, the not knowing everything would be unlikely for a Creator of the complex universe, which scientists have determined is so finely tuned that even 1 tiny variation would cause life on Earth, to be impossible. Given that, the lying and committing evil doesn’t seem to make sense for such a Being that can create such amazing beauty and complexity. Would seem to be like a split personality.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Very insightful answers.

I’ll ask a follow-up question…

Is it logically possible for the ultimate being (God with a capital ‘G’) to be imperfect? Such as lying, not knowing everything, committing evil, etc.
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Equally of interest might be to consider if God might be capable of ultimately becoming forgetful…?
 
Is it logically possible that God could lie and send someone to hell even though they were holy?
Is it logically possible for the ultimate being (God with a capital ‘G’) to be imperfect? Such as lying, not knowing everything, committing evil, etc?
Is it logically possible to have a square circle?

Logic provides the identical answer to all three questions.
 
Hypotheticals can be interesting, but this one is possible only if we anthropomorphize God. My personal concept of the Creator cannot allow for such human-like actions.
 
God is Love itself. Love does not lie. Love does not make a brain in a vat to toy with it. Love does not troll Its beloved. Love does not wish to be separated from Its beloved in hell forever.

God LOVES you. He loves you far more than you can imagine and certainly much more than you currently believe. He loves you so much He sent part of Himself to die for you. Let go of your distrust and open yourself up to this Love. Uncurl from your cringing, fetal position of fear and actually look at Him. Then you can see for yourself perfect Love.
 
Imagine a young man who is totally in love with the most beautiful and perfect girl, and she is in love with him.

Now imagine the young man starte thinking, what if she’s not really that great? What if she’s fooling around on me? And he just keeps imagining all these scenarios.

What do you think will happen to their relationship? Does it really make sense for him to do that? To actually destroy his love for her by imagining her as a bad person?
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I’m not talking about the Roman Catholic interpretation of God.

I am just speaking in general. Can an all powerful, all knowing God who also has the ability to create love as well be logically able to lie about himself?

I’ve had this fear that maybe God is just taking me for a ride and I’m just a brain in a vat that he is using for an evil prank. He is making an illusion of reality out to be that the Chrisitian faith is the path to salvation and if I follow his commandments (illusions of a man named Jesus, these message boards, the CCC, etc), I will be saved…but in reality he’s going to send me to hell…just because he wants to troll me and gets a kick out of confusing me.
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Love is not defined here so it is not possible to answer that sufficiently. You post that you fear that God enjoys tricking you and then sending you to hell. What you describe sounds like the Trickster of various mythologies.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Very insightful answers.

I’ll ask a follow-up question…

Is it logically possible for the ultimate being (God with a capital ‘G’) to be imperfect? Such as lying, not knowing everything, committing evil, etc.
Click to expand...
Well, it depends upon which side of the Euthyphro dilemma you’re on. If whatever God wills is righteous, then the question isn’t applicable. If perfection is solely defined by his authority, then should he will mass genocide, murder, false witness against one’s neighbor, then those things aren’t sinful solely because he willed them. Therefore, he isn’t imperfect by virtue of his authority.

If he is bound by a code though, then no he cannot be imperfect in the sense of transgressing the code. Or maybe he can, sense he might hold the capacity that we do so as to disobey it. But then this calls into question who is of the highest authority, God or the Law above him? The situation seems to indicate the latter, in which case there doesn’t seem to be a need to worship God. This position seems to me to be the most problematic, yet most Christians tend to hold this exact view from my experience without acknowledging the problematic logical conclusions.

As for the not knowing everything, that’s difficult to say. Should we understand omniscience of God as absolute or relative? We cannot possibly know the answer to that question.
 
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