Is it logically possible that I go to a state of mind that I could experience my existence?

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Bahman

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Is it logically impossible that I go to a state of mind that I could experience my existence? Each day and night our minds goes to different states, experiencing tremendous state of beings. We can strongly without any doubt say that we experience things. This however does not provide any strong proof that I separately exist. I cannot possibly go to a state of mind that I could only experience my inner self but nothing else.
 
Bahman said:
Is it logically impossible that I go to a state of mind that I could experience my existence? Each day and night our minds goes to different states, experiencing tremendous state of beings. We can strongly without any doubt say that we experience things. This however does not provide any strong proof that I separately exist. I cannot possibly go to a state of mind that I could only experience my inner self but nothing else.
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Your question itself is proof of your assertion. You have one existence with many facets. Each facet is merely explained as a part of its whole.

There are natural and unnatural states. One should not particularly select immoral means to achieve a different state of mind to experience a different facet of existence. Dreams are normal, other types are not. If you need a good example of this, drug use would be high on that immoral list. You could also argue this same effect for contraceptive use (sex as a state of euphoria) and many other things. This is a dangerous mindset.

It is not a logical position you seek. It should be a moral question: Should I attempt a different state of mind to experience my existence? The answer is no.

Joe B
 
Bahman said:
Is it logically impossible that I go to a state of mind that I could experience my existence? Each day and night our minds goes to different states, experiencing tremendous state of beings. We can strongly without any doubt say that we experience things. This however does not provide any strong proof that I separately exist. I cannot possibly go to a state of mind that I could only experience my inner self but nothing else.
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You’re talking about Gnosticism, which holds that only the spiritual world is important. You’re also making yourself, your being, the centre of your focus, rather than God. When Christians meditate it is an attempt to become one with God, not to make ourselves gods. To answer to your question, it may be logically possible to enter that state of mind, but it is most definitely not the Christian way.
 
Bahman said:
I cannot possibly go to a state of mind that I could only experience my inner self but nothing else.
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Yes you can, it’s called meditation. 😃

You can explore your inside and find the transcendence that originated your own existence when you just find yourself quiet, lower your awareness as much as you can and just stop paying attention to what you’re feeling (seeing, hearing, touching, etc. by finding a stable position with your eyes and in silence) and just try to dig through the void. That’s how people also establish a connection with God, but you need to stop what you’re doing and free yourself from your own existence, and you’ll see the true dimension of it. 👍

This isn’t philosophy, it’s a state of mind where you avoid using your mind at all. Set yourself free for a minute 🙂
 
JButky said:
Your question itself is proof of your assertion. You have one existence with many facets. Each facet is merely explained as a part of its whole.

There are natural and unnatural states. One should not particularly select immoral means to achieve a different state of mind to experience a different facet of existence. Dreams are normal, other types are not. If you need a good example of this, drug use would be high on that immoral list. You could also argue this same effect for contraceptive use (sex as a state of euphoria) and many other things. This is a dangerous mindset.

It is not a logical position you seek. It should be a moral question: Should I attempt a different state of mind to experience my existence? The answer is no.

Joe B
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No. My question does not provide any answer to this problem. The very fact that there was a process so called thought which lead to a question does not prove that I do exist.
I don’t know what dreams are as I neither don’t have any control on my being nor I have control on what is happening around. It is an unconditional experience. In fact things seems more realistic as the reality of things could be tested in state of awake than in state of sleep.

Why this is morally wrong?

My question was about the possibility of going to an state of mind that I could experience myself. People use thinking as a logical proof for our existence, but my question as I stated before is why we should strive on something else like thinking to provide a proof for our existence. In simple words, why our existence should be so ambiguous.
 
seagal said:
You’re talking about Gnosticism, which holds that only the spiritual world is important. You’re also making yourself, your being, the centre of your focus, rather than God. When Christians meditate it is an attempt to become one with God, not to make ourselves gods. To answer to your question, it may be logically possible to enter that state of mind, but it is most definitely not the Christian way.
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What is the Christian way of entering to that state of mind in which I could experience my existence? I am not considering myself at the centre of focus. The very basic question is if I cannot experience myself then how possibly I could possibly experience a higher state of being, God?
 
Bahman said:
What is the Christian way of entering to that state of mind in which I could experience my existence? I am not considering myself at the centre of focus. The very basic question is if I cannot experience myself then how possibly I could possibly experience a higher state of being, God?
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I already answered that… :rolleyes:
 
ServantPD said:
Yes you can, it’s called meditation. 😃

You can explore your inside and find the transcendence that originated your own existence when you just find yourself quiet, lower your awareness as much as you can and just stop paying attention to what you’re feeling (seeing, hearing, touching, etc. by finding a stable position with your eyes and in silence) and just try to dig through the void. That’s how people also establish a connection with God, but you need to stop what you’re doing and free yourself from your own existence, and you’ll see the true dimension of it. 👍

This isn’t philosophy, it’s a state of mind where you avoid using your mind at all. Set yourself free for a minute 🙂
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I have already tried meditation. But what I need to reach is a higher state of awareness for something which is so hidden to me. I cannot possibly reach to a state of void, at the same time, set myself free of myself, at the same time have a higher awareness on my existence.
 
No offense Bahman, but you either have a mental illness with delusions and/or hallucinations, or your attempting something that won’t lead to God. A person with a normal rationale mind knows he exists. He doesn’t need a transcendental experience to prove it to himself.

If you want to discuss how the great philosophers logically proved they, and we, are real, that’s one thing, and you’re on the wrong website for that. But be careful because some of those philosophers went insane trying to do what you want to do. I’m pretty old, I studied philosophy, and sometimes I thought it was silly and not worth my time. Why? Because I never doubted my own existence. If you really feel uncertain that you exist, you may have experienced an emotional trauma as a child that you have totally repressed. Childhood sexual abuse can cause this. Or if you witnessed a murder, or your mother being beaten, when you were a child, that too can cause this.

But if you’re a grown adult with no mental issues, and you want to experience yourself from outside of yourself, that usually leads to Satan. Not to God, and I think all of us on this board want to know how to please God so that someday we will be with Him.
 
Geo17 said:
No offense Bahman, but you either have a mental illness with delusions and/or hallucinations, or your attempting something that won’t lead to God. A person with a normal rationale mind knows he exists. He doesn’t need a transcendental experience to prove it to himself.

If you want to discuss how the great philosophers logically proved they, and we, are real, that’s one thing, and you’re on the wrong website for that. But be careful because some of those philosophers went insane trying to do what you want to do. I’m pretty old, I studied philosophy, and sometimes I thought it was silly and not worth my time. Why? Because I never doubted my own existence. If you really feel uncertain that you exist, you may have experienced an emotional trauma as a child that you have totally repressed. Childhood sexual abuse can cause this. Or if you witnessed a murder, or your mother being beaten, when you were a child, that too can cause this.

But if you’re a grown adult with no mental issues, and you want to experience yourself from outside of yourself, that usually leads to Satan. Not to God, and I think all of us on this board want to know how to please God so that someday we will be with Him.
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Thank you very much for your answer. My question was very simple and plain: Is it logically possible that I go to a state of mind that I could experience my existence? In another word, if experiencing our existence was such an easy task, whey then philosopher has strive on other concept like thinking to prove our existence.

I don’t quite understand what do you mean with this phrase, “you want to experience yourself from outside of yourself”, and why it leads to Satan. All I was asking if it is logically possible. Moreover, you didn’t explain what do you mean with meeting God that is subject another discussion? If we as individual cannot ask such a question about the possibility of experiencing our beings then how we could discuss about experiencing other being like God.
 
Bahman said:
My question was about the possibility of going to an state of mind that I could experience myself. People use thinking as a logical proof for our existence, but my question as I stated before is why we should strive on something else like thinking to provide a proof for our existence. In simple words, why our existence should be so ambiguous.
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I see, I misunderstood originally.

For you to see yourself, outside of yourself, would require yourself to be two “selves.” Otherwise, you would need one self with 2 independently existing different states. (not possible) At best you could view part of oneself, as in a duality seeing the other part as an extension of the same part (as I can see my hand). But for one to be able to see the same one independently as “proof” of existence would require this independent duality. The duality itself does not work for this proof. So I would so that no, logically, you cannot use an altered state to see yourself as proof of existence. An independent duality must be part of the nature of such a being for this purpose or the lack of it would would negate the premise. The same person cannot exist independently separate for this task. An altered state of consciousness cannot independently duplicate itself (or exist in that manner) for this type of proof to even occur.

Joe B
 
Bahman said:
Why we should strive on thinking? Why our existence should be so ambiguous that we need thinking as a proof of concept for our existence.
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Because thinking is the one process in our life that requires consciousness. Your being involves a slew of other actions: breathing, seeing, hearing, toe-wiggling, etc; but (except maybe for the toe-wiggling), these other processes are so innately wired-in that they take place “under the hood” of our minds.

Your being is not ambiguous, but it is so smooth that most of it is subconscious.

ICXC NIKA
 
ServantPD said:
Yes you can, it’s called meditation. 😃

You can explore your inside and find the transcendence that originated your own existence when you just find yourself quiet, lower your awareness as much as you can and just stop paying attention to what you’re feeling (seeing, hearing, touching, etc. by finding a stable position with your eyes and in silence) and just try to dig through the void. That’s how people also establish a connection with God, but you need to stop what you’re doing and free yourself from your own existence, and you’ll see the true dimension of it. 👍

This isn’t philosophy, it’s a state of mind where you avoid using your mind at all. Set yourself free for a minute 🙂
Click to expand...
Yes, meditation is a state of mind in which one disregards all external sensory stimuli, seeking to disregard all external (name removed by moderator)ut and reach a state in which one is aware only of the inner reality of one’s being.

Some contemplatives who have written of the matter state that a human being can only go so far in the matter of meditation. To reach a state of contemplation in which only God is apparent, it takes His initiative, we can only be prepared to receive it.

Interestingly enough, I think that an Eastern, perhaps HIndu meditative person reaching this state would consider it the experience the he IS God rather than an experience OF God, so even contemplative reality can be misinterpreted by the rational mind.
 
Bahman said:
I have already tried meditation. But what I need to reach is a higher state of awareness for something which is so hidden to me. I cannot possibly reach to a state of void, at the same time, set myself free of myself, at the same time have a higher awareness on my existence.
Click to expand...
To reach awareness of the inside, you need to turn off the awareness to the outside. You’re meditating right, or not doing it properly. I never said it was easy, I only said that if well done, it’d work. And yes, those three things do come up simultaneously, you’re simply putting barriers to my solution to your problem. 🙂
 
JimG said:
Yes, meditation is a state of mind in which one disregards all external sensory stimuli, seeking to disregard all external (name removed by moderator)ut and reach a state in which one is aware only of the inner reality of one’s being.

Some contemplatives who have written of the matter state that a human being can only go so far in the matter of meditation. To reach a state of contemplation in which only God is apparent, it takes His initiative, we can only be prepared to receive it.

Interestingly enough, I think that an Eastern, perhaps HIndu meditative person reaching this state would consider it the experience the he IS God rather than an experience OF God, so even contemplative reality can be misinterpreted by the rational mind.
Click to expand...
Well, that sort of contemplative state kind of worked with me, which led me to my conversion back to Rome when I was an atheist. I figured anyone could do it in the proper conditions, and not having the proper necessity of God’s initiative. I guess I got lucky of some sort, then! 😃
 
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