Is it ludicrous to think that the world will remain Capitalistic?

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markomalley said:
Socialism is inherently materialistic.

The antithesis of “Love”
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CAPITALISM is inherently MATERIALISTIC. It is the antithesis of LOVE. Since Love is God, Money can never be God.

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
 
Zoltan_Cobalt said:
Bob, old friend…we went over this once before…remember

Greed. power and prestige…maligned terms used by communists to bash Capitalism.

GREED
In a true Free Market, Greed does not exist. People operate on the principle of SELF INTEREST. Self Interest is not greed. A man seeking to improve his lot in life so that his family benefits is acting in his own self-interest. If he, in his own self-interest, improves himself and his family, then the general good is accomplished. Communists. socialists and liberal thinkers of today call that GREED every chance they get…but it is not.

Adam Smith said it very well: “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest.” In other words, the butcher is not working in his shop so that you can eat; he’s doing it so that he can. But by virtue of him being there, doing what he does, you are able to also eat.

POWER
The power that exists in a Free Market is ECONOMIC Power and that is not a negative… Socialism, communism and tyranny depend on POLITICAL power. There is a big difference.
Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering everyone a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value. Political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The Free Market’s power is values; socialism’s power is fear.

PRESTIGE
Prestige is not a negative in the Free Market. It is a goal. It is earned by respecting the rights and property of others and maintaining the ruling economic principle of justice.
Prestige in a socialist/communist society is UN-earned. It is usurped by force or political power. It is simply “claimed”.

Self Interest, (What you mistakenly call greed) Power and Prestige are not negatives of the Free Market (Capitalism). They are actually positives that make the Free Market the overall best economic system in the world.

How about a new argument…
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Do they have to be communists to use such words to bash Capitalism? Christians, Catholics among others use such words to bash Capitalism…

On the contrary, the communist government of China among other communist countries has embraced Capitalism as its new economic system. This has transformed its country and its nation into an economic power house. With renewed economic mind set, China’s aggressiveness being demonstrated at the West Philippine Sea and surrounding seas is the result of its confidence brought by CAPITALISM . With booming economy, the demands of its nation cannot adequately support the voracious appetite of the new bourgeosie who make up a large percentage of the population. China’s hunger must look elsewhere for RESOURCES to satisfy the bottomless pit demands of Capitalism and must bully, grab and steal the small neighboring nations resources for the sake of self-centered-interest of greedy economic system, boasting military power, and maintaining an ostentacious, pretentious, superficial prestige. So, how can you say that greed(self-interest), power and prestige that describe Capitalism are positive?

In the West, the very elite rich people in the US own and control more than half of the world’s wealth and resources while 1 out of 6 people live below poverty and go hungry. There is a wide discrepancy between the rich and the poor and that is a travesty! Likewise, it is also a travesty when one cannot see the injustices of greed, power and prestige being perpetuated under the umbrella of CAPITALISM…

Furthermore, the natural and material Earth cannot naturally support the selfish, vacuumic demands of Capitalism. It is detrimental, intrusive and pompous to the natural enviroment.

There has not been a steady economic system in the world. It has always changed. Therefore, it is highly ridiculous to think the the world will remain CAPITALISTIC!
 
freeRadical said:
Please enlighten me on what economic or political system is going to cause love to flourish in our world? Please tell me what economic or political system is going to end the needless pain, suffering, and injustice? Capitalism has done more to improve the lot of the ordinary man and lift millions out of indescribable poverty then any economic system yet discovered. You blame Capitalism for all the ills of the world but you offer no solutions.

Where is their indescribable poverty in the world? Where is their needless pain, suffering, and injustice. It’s not in Capitalistic countries. It’s in countries where people do not have economic or political freedom.
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freeRADICAL,

To answer your questions, one needs a RADICAL idea in accordance to the sacred scripture. It says in Matthew 6:24 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." I say dismantle and deconstruct our government and economic system and serve God alone and put all of our trust in Him and let Him show us the way…
 
holyreyes said:
Yes, to capitalize on cheap natural resources and labor and maximize profits.
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Yes. To put people to work, letting them earn money while producing things which improves everyone’s quality of life.
 
holyreyes said:
I do not agree with the notion that the only way out of poverty for vulnerable people who are poor is to start working. Would the companies hire people with mental, physical and emotional disabilities? How about seniors who are dependent on their social security alone?
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Wal-mart does.

Furthermore…nobody is suggesting we implement the full free-market economy and cut the weakest ones loose to fend for themselves. Our free-market capitalism allows us, as a nation, to be wealthy enough to provide a substantial safety net for those who cannot do for themselves.

Unfortunately this safety net is often so high that it serves as an incentive for those who CAN do for themselves to NOT do for themselves because it’s easier to sit at home and collect the goods that others produce.

Which leads us back to the poverty situation in America which is always relative. Again, if you want to get a good understanding of what “poverty” in America looks like, read: heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/what-is-poverty
 
Boatswain2PA said:
Unfortunately this safety net is often so high that it serves as an incentive for those who CAN do for themselves to NOT do for themselves because it’s easier to sit at home and collect the goods that others produce.
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Why can’t the givers of largesse require a quid-pro-quo contract? The encouragement of dependence (some say this sways people to vote liberal) that now pervades our safety net allows people on the dole to remain on the dole without any obligation to get off the dole. Instead, these people have more children, the fathers don’t marry their children’s mother and disappear, often without the requirement of paying child-support. As long as the safety net will dole out money to fatherless families, why change anything?

People on the dole will have more money to eat junk food, consume alcohol, have smart phones, cable TV, and not even feel it in their budgets. Why work when the money keeps coming in?

Back in the days before Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister of the UK, news stories profiled young able people who elected not to work because the government was supporting them. University education was free in those days (it may be still free) and students could remain in college for an extended period without paying anything.

An agreement of quid-pro-quo would help.
 
holyreyes said:
CAPITALISM is inherently MATERIALISTIC. It is the antithesis of LOVE. Since Love is God, Money can never be God.

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
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👍 👍
 
The problem with the purer socialism is that it runs out of money and the common people starve. Look at Venezuela and Cuba.

The problem with the purer capitalism is that while the common people aren’t pushed to the brink of starvation the difference in the wealth of the classes causes the common people to despise their condition.

The only really equitable and moral government is one of capitalism with some social services for the most marginalized.
 
holyreyes said:
freeRADICAL,

To answer your questions, one needs a RADICAL idea in accordance to the sacred scripture. It says in Matthew 6:24 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." I say dismantle and deconstruct our government and economic system and serve God alone and put all of our trust in Him and let Him show us the way…
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So you’re an anarchist?
 
holyreyes said:
Just because the world and everyone is greedy doesn’t mean that you have to be one.
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What do you mean by greed? Are people pursuing their own self-interests greedy? Do you not pursue your own self-interest?
 
Mickey_Finn said:
I assume when you speak of a full uncontrolled, un regulated laissez-faire capitalistic society. You are speaking of Somalia. Been there, wouldn’t recommend it.
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Do people in Somalia have private property rights? Do they have economic freedom? Who enforces contracts?
 
holyreyes said:
freeRADICAL,

To answer your questions, one needs a RADICAL idea in accordance to the sacred scripture. It says in Matthew 6:24 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." I say dismantle and deconstruct our government and economic system and serve God alone and put all of our trust in Him and let Him show us the way…
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What do you say to the Mormons who incorporate tithing into their church activities? What do you say to all the religious services where the donation basket is passed to each attendee?
Without money there would be no churches. Without money there would be no clergy.
 
Mickey_Finn said:
I assume when you speak of a full uncontrolled, un regulated laissez-faire capitalistic society. You are speaking of Somalia. Been there, wouldn’t recommend it.
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I can’t say I have been ashore in Somalia…just a few operations off the coast.

However…

“Somalia has a surprisingly strong economy.”

“The total lack of government involvement has proven beneficial in a number of ways.”

thirdworldplanet.com/somalia-economy.php
 
Maybe it is ludicrous to discuss this topic. History teaches us no governments are static and it is understood that is because of corruption, whether it be communist, socialist, democratic/capitalist or totalitarianism.
 
holyreyes said:
Yes, to capitalize on cheap natural resources and labor and maximize profits.
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There is nothing wrong with maximizing profits.

and

I think it is very noble to provide well paying jobs to people of the third world. Are we not called to help our neighbor?
 
Originally Posted by Zoltan Cobalt View Post
I happen to know first hand that the work of the world is EXACTLY what God intends for us.
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I see that you failed to notice the “Sarcasm Font” I used in the above statement…because you made the following reference:
holyreyes said:
Oh dear! :bigyikes: :highprayer:
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You, however made the statement:
Originally Posted by holyreyes View Post
The work that the world offers us is not the true sense of work that God intends us to do.
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I should have asked you: how do you know what God intends us to do? It sounds like YOU have “first hand information…”
holyreyes said:
I do not agree with the notion that the only way out of poverty for vulnerable people who are poor is to start working. Would the companies hire people with mental, physical and emotional disabilities? How about seniors who are dependent on their social security alone?
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Of course you don’t agree…you want something for nothing.

Consider this…A “vulnerable family” that is poor, receives welfare payments, subsistence benefits, tax credits and more…that does not make them rich…they are still poor. ONLY they can WORK themselves out of poverty. Sure, they can CHOOSE to remain a welfare family if they want…for generations.

The small minority of people who are unable rather than unwilling to work, should rely on voluntary charity. Misfortune is not a claim to “slave labor”. There is no such thing as the right to consume, control, and destroy the productive members of society.
 
holyreyes said:
CAPITALISM is inherently MATERIALISTIC. It is the antithesis of LOVE. Since Love is God, Money can never be God.

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
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The antithesis of LOVE is HATE not Capitalism. A social/economic system is incapable of HATE.

Capitalism is, in fact virtuous. It does not tell people to suffer, but to pursue enjoyment and achievement, here, on earth.
Capitalism does not tell people to serve and sacrifice, but to produce and profit.
Capitalism does not preach passivity, humility or resignation, but independence, self-confidence, self-reliance and, above all, Capitalism does not permit anyone to expect or demand, to give or to take the unearned.
In all human relationships, private or public, spiritual or material, social or political or economic or moral…Capitalism requires that men be guided by the principle of justice.
 
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