Is it ludicrous to think that the world will remain Capitalistic?

[holyreyes]

What makes me think what? That you’re a Communist? Because you talk about sharing everything and communal living, that’s why,

That is not enough reason for you to think that I am a Communist. Please, elaborate and prove to me that I am a Communist…

 

[freeRadical]

That is not enough reason for you to think that I am a Communist. Please, elaborate and prove to me that I am a Communist…

Communism is an economic system in which the means of production are owned in common.

Isn’t that what you are advocating? If so, I sure hope not.

 

[holyreyes]

How does one determine the will of God when preparing for one’s life work? For that matter, how does one determine the will of God for anything concerning an individual?

Do you believe in God nmgauss?

 

[freeRadical]

That is not enough reason for you to think that I am a Communist. Please, elaborate and prove to me that I am a Communist…

Actually, here is a better description of Communism.

Communism is a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Sounds a lot like what you are advocating for in this thread.

 

[holyreyes]

Communism is an economic system in which the means of production are owned in common.

Isn’t that what you are advocating? If so, I sure hope not.

I thought you already read what I think should replace Capitalism… Although it may appear to be Communistic, it isn’t in what the world thinks of it… I said to dismantle and decontruct the world economic system and rely on God’s providence and grace alone… Is that hard to grasp? Economy in what we understand would cease to exist… The mode of currency is our hearts.

 

[holyreyes]

Actually, here is a better description of Communism.

Communism is a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims at the establishment of this social order.

Sounds a lot like what you are advocating for in this thread.

I do not know what means of production is? But yes, it sounds like “Communism.” But it isn’t the communism that the world is accustomed to…

 

[freeRadical]

I thought you already read what I think should replace Capitalism… Although it may appear to be Communistic, it isn’t in what the world thinks of it… I said to dismantle and decontruct the world economic system and rely on God’s providence and grace alone… Is that hard to grasp? Economy in what we understand would cease to exist… The mode of currency is our hearts.

Sounds like Communism. You do know that the Catholic church has condemned Communism right? It has called Communism the Anti-Christ.

Economy will never cease to exist. As long as you have people interacting with each other, exchanging and trading, there will always exist a market and, as such, an economy.

I would like you to directly answer this question. In this society of yours, how would you make sure enough food was produced to feed everybody?

 

[freeRadical]

I do not know what means of production is? But yes, it sounds like “Communism.” But it isn’t the communism that the world is accustomed to…

You don’t know what “means of production” is but you are criticizing economic systems?

Here’s a definition:

In economics and sociology, the means of production refers to physical, non-human (name removed by moderator)uts used in production; that is, the “means of production” includes capital assets used to produce wealth, such as machinery, tools and factories,[1] including both infrastructural capital and natural capital. This includes the “factors of production” described in classical economics minus financial capital and minus human capital. They include two broad categories of objects: instruments of labour (tools, factories, infrastructure, etc.) and subjects of labor (natural resources and raw materials). If creating a good, people operate on the subjects of labor, using the instruments of labor, to create a product; or, stated another way, labour acting on the means of production creates a good.[2]

The means of production can be simply described as follows: in an agrarian society the soil and the shovel are the means of production; in an industrial society, mines and the factories; and in a knowledge economy, offices and computers. When used in the broad sense, the “means of production” includes the “means of distribution” such as stores, the internet and railroads.[3]

Ownership of the means of production and control over the surplus product generated by their operation is a key factor in categorizing different economic systems.

 

[holyreyes]

Sounds like Communism. You do know that the Catholic church has condemned Communism right? It has called Communism the Anti-Christ.

What makes you think I advocate the Anti-Christ Communism? You haven’t proven that to me?

I am advocating to rely soley on God’s providence and grace is an Anti-Christ to you? Have you read all my posts? I heavily advocated and pleaded for JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS, and that is ANTI-CHRIST TO YOU? How dare you???

 

[holyreyes]

You don’t know what “means of production” is but you are criticizing economic systems?

Hellooooooo!!! I am advocating on dismantling and deconstructing economic systems. I AM ADVOCATING FOR A SOCIETY WITHOUT ECONOMY THAT DOES NOT RELY ON MONEY BUT ON GOD’S GRACE AND PROVIDENCE AND THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE COMING FROM THEIR HEARTS ! MUST I TYPE THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN…

 

[freeRadical]

What makes you think I advocate the Anti-Christ Communism? You haven’t proven that to me?

I am advocating to rely soley on God’s providence and grace is an Anti-Christ to you? Have you read all my posts? I heavily advocated and pleaded for JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS, and that is ANTI-CHRIST TO YOU? How dare you???

You said we should get rid of money, share everything equally, and live communally. That is Communism.

Who do you think should own the means of production. By means of production I mean capital. By capital I mean things like factories, machinery, tools, offices, computers, etc. Basically anything nonhuman that is used to produce goods and services.

Who should own these things? Individuals? The State? Or should they be owned in common, by everybody?

 

[freeRadical]

Hellooooooo!!! I am advocating on dismantling and deconstructing economic systems. I AM ADVOCATING FOR A SOCIETY WITHOUT ECONOMY THAT DOES NOT RELY ON MONEY BUT ON GOD’S GRACE AND PROVIDENCE AND THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE COMING FROM THEIR HEARTS ! MUST I TYPE THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN…

Getting rid of money will not get rid of an economy. An economy will always exist as long as markets exist, and markets exist as long as humans exist and interact with one another.

You still haven’t answered my question. This society of yours will still need goods and services to live right? People will still need food, clothing, shelter, and other goods and services right?

So how do we decide what and how many goods and services to produce, who should produce them, and how to distribute them?

 

[holyreyes]

You said we should get rid of money, share everything equally, and live communally. That is Communism.

Okay, so tell me… How is this Anti-Christ and condemned by the Church? PROVE TO ME!

 

[freeRadical]

Okay, so tell me… How is this Anti-Christ and condemned by the Church? PROVE TO ME!

Okay. Here you go.

From Rerum Novarum, Paragraph 15:

“Hence, it is clear that the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonwealth. The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property. This being established, we proceed to show where the remedy sought for must be found”

Furthermore, paragraph 676 of The Catechism of the Catholic Church identifies the Antichrist with any ideology which proposes to solve all humanity’s problems, and the context of the document quoted therein is an explicit statement that Communism is the AntiChrist.

 

[holyreyes]

You still haven’t answered my question. This society of yours will still need goods and services to live right? People will still need food, clothing, shelter, and other goods and services right?

Yes and I have answered it again and again. Those things are going to be provided by people who have been given the gifts and talents to execute them…

So how do we decide what and how many goods and services to produce, who should produce them, and how to distribute them?

I don’t understand your questions because you keep thinking as an economist.

 

[freeRadical]

Yes and I have answered it again and again. Those things are going to be provided by people who have been given the gifts and talents to execute them…

I don’t understand your questions because you keep thinking as an economist.

If only everyone thought like an economist…the world would be a better place.

Okay. Let’s keep it simple. Food. You are going to need food in your society. You say that food will be provided by people who have been given the gifts and talent to provide it. Fine. But food production requires land, capital, and labor.

In your society, how do you decide how much land is going to be used for food production? Where are you going to get it from? How do you decide how much capital is going to be used for food production? Where do you get it from? How do you decide how much labor is going to be used for food production? Where are you going to get it from?

How do you decide how much food is need each year and how much food each person gets?

Another question. What if, in this society of yours, no one decides they want to produce food? Then what happens?

 

[holyreyes]

Okay. Here you go.

From Rerum Novarum, Paragraph 15:

“Hence, it is clear that the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonwealth. The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property. This being established, we proceed to show where the remedy sought for must be found”

Furthermore, paragraph 676 of The Catechism of the Catholic Church identifies the Antichrist with any ideology which proposes to solve all humanity’s problems, and the context of the document quoted therein is an explicit statement that Communism is the AntiChrist.

#676 says

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

How was I espousing and promoting an “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism and how can you equate what I am proposing to be this “Communism?”

From Rerum Novarum, Paragraph 15.

And in addition to injustice, it is only too evident what an upset and disturbance there would be in all classes, and to how intolerable and hateful a slavery citizens would be subjected. The door would be thrown open to envy, to mutual invective, and to discord; the sources of wealth themselves would run dry, for no one would have any interest in exerting his talents or his industry; and that ideal equality about which they entertain pleasant dreams would be in reality the levelling down of all to a like condition of misery and degradation. Hence, it is clear that the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonweal. The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property. This being established, we proceed to show where the remedy sought for must be found.

How could you equate what I propose to this description? I do not advocate this kind of “socialism” or “communism.” Where in my posts did I advocate for these atrocities? And can you equate me to be advocating the Anti-Christ Communism? Where have you heard me advocate military force on taking people’s properties? Have I not advocated on offering and giving people’s materials and natural resources instead in addition to the services by virtue of human kindness? Haven’t I advocated heavily on people’s talents and industry(professions)? Where have you heard me advocate on dismantling God and religion? Have I not advocated and pleaded to rely on God alone? So, how can you say that I espouse and advocate the “Communism” that you think you know to be the Anti-Christ?

 

[freeRadical]

#676 says I didn’t read anything about Communism to be the Anti-Christ here…

It says that any ideology claiming to solve all mankind’s problems is the Anti-Christ. Communism claims to solve all mankind’s problems so it is Anti-Christ. Haven’t you claimed that your idea would solve all mankind’s problems?

From Rerum Novarum, Paragraph 15. How could you equate what I propose to this description? I do not advocate this kind of “socialism” or “communism.” Where in my posts did I advocate for these atrocities? And can you equate me to be advocating the Anti-Christ Communism? Where have you heard me advocate military force on taking people’s properties? Have I not advocated on offering and giving people’s materials and natural resources instead in addition to the services by virtue of human kindness? Haven’t I advocated heavily on people’s talents and industry(professions)? Where have you heard me advocate on dismantling God and religion? Have I not advocated and pleaded to rely on God alone? So, how can you say that I espouse and advocate the “Communism” that you think you know to be the Anti-Christ?

community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit,** is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonweal.**

Isn’t a shared, community of goods what you advocate?

** The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property.**

In a society where everything is shared equally, there would be no private property.

 

[freeRadical]

#676 says How was I espousing and promoting an “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism and how can you equate what I am proposing to be this “Communism?”

From Rerum Novarum, Paragraph 15. How could you equate what I propose to this description? I do not advocate this kind of “socialism” or “communism.” Where in my posts did I advocate for these atrocities? And can you equate me to be advocating the Anti-Christ Communism? Where have you heard me advocate military force on taking people’s properties? Have I not advocated on offering and giving people’s materials and natural resources instead in addition to the services by virtue of human kindness? Haven’t I advocated heavily on people’s talents and industry(professions)? Where have you heard me advocate on dismantling God and religion? Have I not advocated and pleaded to rely on God alone? So, how can you say that I espouse and advocate the “Communism” that you think you know to be the Anti-Christ?

Let’s back up and make sure we are on the same page. It seems to me that these are the things you are advocating for.

1. A society that does not use money.
2. A society that does not have governments
3. A society where there is communal ownership and sharing of goods.

I am I correct in assuming that this is what you are advocating?

Also, it seems to me that you are also advocating these.

1. A society where people do not profit from their talents and skills. Where all people are rewarded equally for their talents, skills, and choice of profession.
2. That they society that you are espousing will solve all mankind’s problems.

Am I correct in assuming that you are also advocating the above?

 

[holyreyes]

It says that any ideology claiming to solve all mankind’s problems is the Anti-Christ. Communism claims to solve all mankind’s problems so it is Anti-Christ.

Nope, it didn’t say that.

Isn’t a shared, community of goods what you advocate?

Not in how you explain and understand it to be…

** The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property.**

In a society where everything is shared equally, there would be no private property.

Don’t we all “share” the Ocean and the material Earth? Where have you heard me say that people would be void of private property? Maybe private ownership because you are trying to give what you have… What I am advocating is actually an acquisition of property and services being given to you but it is being made emphasis on the core philosophy of GIVING because everything that you have, you give and share and you receive what people give and share intellectually, physically and spiritually!