Is it mean to tell someone they are terrible person if they are?

[pianistclare]

Honesty requires virtue.
Virtue requires charity.
There’s nothing charitable about constantly finding fault with others.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Cratus how would you want people to treat you when you make a mistake?

 

[Katherine438]

What is the difference between judging and simply being honest?

Ask Jesus … He’s the one that taught us not to judge … you know the teaching that he among you without sin should cast the first stone.

 

[CRATUS]

She has expressed remorse for her behavior. She is in counseling, back to church now and enrolled in a fitness class. It took her in my opinion way too long to finally begin changing. We had a discussion. She is well aware she is wrong. Why she doesn’t change? She said she often feels hopeless and overwhelmed with self pity when faced with the reality of all her poor choices. She said she wished she had the faith or confidence to change. She doesn’t need anymore criticism, she needs people to give her the faith she lacks.

 

[Lou2U]

She has expressed remorse for her behavior. She is in counseling, back to church now and enrolled in a fitness class. It took her in my opinion way too long to finally begin changing.

I don’t mean to be offensive with this, CRATUS, but I wonder what you really want from your ‘friendship’? You wanted your ‘friend’ to change, and now she is trying, your focus is “it took her way too long”. Are you not pleased for your friend that she has recognised problem with her behaviour and is doing what she can to improve?

There’s a quote I found today, which says what I want to in a much more concise way: "Not everyone thinks the way you think, knows the things you know, believes the things you believe, nor acts the way you would act. Remember this and you will go a long way in getting along with people.”

We had a discussion. She is well aware she is wrong. Why she doesn’t change? She said she often feels hopeless and overwhelmed with self pity when faced with the reality of all her poor choices. She said she wished she had the faith or confidence to change.

It’s good that you talked about it, and now you can see where she is coming from. To me, your friend sounds:

• Self aware of her problems
• Willing to admit to those problems
• Honest not only with herself, but with others
• Willing to take responsibility of those problems in order to do something about them
• Committed to changing, despite the difficulties she will have to face

She doesn’t need anymore criticism, she needs people to give her the faith she lacks.

I hope this is the part you listen to the most. She has told you she doesn’t need you to tell her when she makes mistakes. She has told you she needs support, and additionally, she has told you she needs support in working through and moving on from her mistakes. I hope that you respect this, and you work from this to help her.

I hope that you understand what a big, big step she has taken. It may seem obvious to you that she needed help, and you may not have understood why she did not immediately do so. However - what she has done is incredibly brave, and is something for her to be proud of. Getting professional help may be something she should have just done in your point of view, but to her? It’s a commitment that she is ready to try and that she wants to change. So many people can never get to this point in their thinking. But counseling isn’t going to change everything overnight. It’ll take time and energy, and she will probably backslide, or make mistakes. What matters is your response to them. Will you point out every single thing she has done wrong? Will you tell her what an awful person she is and accuse her of not really wanting to change? Will you support her the way she needs? I hope you do.

Remember that although she is going to counseling, and is trying to change her behaviour, she will never be perfect. There may always be things you oppose to, and vice versa. But these things do not mean she is “wrong”, or not changing, or “terrible”. These things mean she is human. Don’t be harsh, or contemptuous. Learn to accept others for who they, and you are - flawed, different human beings.

Lou

 

[pianistclare]

She has expressed remorse for her behavior. She is in counseling, back to church now and enrolled in a fitness class. It took her in my opinion way too long to finally begin changing. We had a discussion. She is well aware she is wrong. Why she doesn’t change? She said she often feels hopeless and overwhelmed with self pity when faced with the reality of all her poor choices. She said she wished she had the faith or confidence to change. She doesn’t need anymore criticism, she needs people to give her the faith she lacks.

And you’re still mad?
Wow.

 

[Irishmom2]

It took her in my opinion way too long to finally begin changing.

She is well aware she is wrong.

She doesn’t need anymore criticism, she needs people to give her the faith she lacks.

Your opinion doesn’t matter. Your opinion is your opinion.

So, she doesn’t need you to tell her she is wrong anymore, as if she ever did.

She never needed your criticism. She always needed your support.

And we have all said this to you every time you posted and complained about her.

 

[frumacat]

It is acceptable to correct and judge others, provided that there is no hypocrisy or malice behind our judgments, and that the judgments themselves remain reasonable.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/judge-not by JimBlackburn

Hmm, yeah, but the thing is, I would argue that most people aren’t the most self-aware, so they wouldn’t be terrific at assessing whether or not there is hypocrisy or malice in their judgement. They tend to just judge giving themselves the benefit of the doubt, or without reflection. Very common in religious people, too.

 

[pianistclare]

Hmm, yeah, but the thing is, I would argue that most people aren’t the most self-aware, so they wouldn’t be terrific at assessing whether or not there is hypocrisy or malice in their judgement. They tend to just judge giving themselves the benefit of the doubt, or without reflection. Very common in religious people, too.

yup.
For the most part, it tends to be “pot, meet kettle”.

Because truly religious people, properly formed religious minded people, know when to walk away and simply pray. Unless one is a certified Spiritual Director, one should not be having these kinds of discussion without serious counseling and reflection.
It’s just unkind, and unhelpful.
Mean, as the OP senses. It is mean. Full stop.
And it says more about the person who criticizes so much, than the person with various issues.

 

[CRATUS]

I guess it can be easy to think you are better or know what’s best for someone.

 

[Katherine438]

I guess it can be easy to think you are better or know what’s best for someone.

Which is what you have been doing to this “friend” of yours in this thread.

 

[CRATUS]

It still boggles my mind. How someone can keep falling into the same mistake after repeating being corrected often. When will it sink it? How hardened of a shell must you have. Always learning the hard way. I would back off, and stop nagging if she could just listen once. If your mistakes are that obvious to others, aren’t you at least ashamed? I do not understand the way people think sometimes. How people can be so egocentric and trapped in bad habits or feel too hopeless to get up and help themselves. I wish everyone was strong and never fell into self-pity.

 

[Irishmom2]

Have you heard a word anyone has said?
It’s 5 pages later and you are still asking the same question.

 

[CRATUS]

Have you heard a word anyone has said?
It’s 5 pages later and you are still asking the same question.

Now, I am asking a general question about human nature. What prevents us from being well perfect?

 

[Katherine438]

Now, I am asking a general question about human nature. What prevents us from being well perfect?

Look in the mirror … you are far from perfect … all you seem to do is want to judge other people.

 

[Lou2U]

It still boggles my mind. How someone can keep falling into the same mistake after repeating being corrected often. When will it sink it? How hardened of a shell must you have. Always learning the hard way. I would back off, and stop nagging if she could just listen once. If your mistakes are that obvious to others, aren’t you at least ashamed? I do not understand the way people think sometimes. How people can be so egocentric and trapped in bad habits or feel too hopeless to get up and help themselves. I wish everyone was strong and never fell into self-pity.

I don’t understand, CRATUS.

Your ‘friend’ is taking steps to change, which was the whole point of your thread.

Why are you still putting her down?

Lou

 

[thequeen]

Instead of being greatful that your friend has made some positive changes you continue to put her down. If I were this friend I would put and end to this friendship and hang with positive people who encourage me and lift me up, not people who are always putting me down.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Instead of being greatful that your friend has made some positive changes you continue to put her down. If I were this friend I would put and end to this friendship and hang with positive people who encourage me and lift me up, not people who are always putting me down.

I agree with you.

Cratus/Pelagia, at least your friend recognizes her faults and is trying to do something about them.

There is a person, not too very far off, who appears to have very great difficulty recognizing his or her failings. Despite hearing advice from many people to stop nagging and attend to the plank in their eye, that person continues to act in the same way, always criticizing ‘other people’ and always wanting them to change to be ‘perfect’.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, although you apparently don’t think it is mean to tell somebody their faults if they really ‘have’ faults: You might want to consider trying to stop being so eager to change everybody else to make them perfect, and start trying to work on making yourself perfect first.

 

[egretps]

When I read the original post by the OP, CRATUS, I thought maybe the OP was actually criticising herself.

I’m not kidding.

If so, I actually understand the brutality someone can show to themselves that they would NEVER do to another human being.

If not, if the OP actually feels this way about another human being, she should say a novena or offer up a mass for this dear soul and let them be. If it’s a relative, all the moreso.

I’ll be praying for CRATUS anyway.

In that case, self-forgiveness is very difficult for some of us. But, if after going to confession, BELIEVE they are forgiven from the One who matters most.

Fr. Ripperger has a couple of youtube videos that have helped me understand this particular sin against oneself so much. Check out some of his videos on Sensus Fidelium channel on Youtube. I won’t suggest a particular one, since I think most of them would be good for CRATUS to watch. I benefited from watching many of them.

God Bless you CRATUS, I know you are struggling.