Is it moral (another topic)

[Debora123]

Why?
Do you really think everyone should research every company that produces food or whatever to see how it was reared, killed or manufactured?
People have to eat, drink and wear clothes. They have no obligation other than to buy these things and nobody has the right to judge them.

It really isn’t that hard. Look for meats with labels that say “organic” or “cage free” or “humanely raised.”

You don’t have to do any research. You just have to read the label of the meat you’re buying. It’s right there on the front.

You should do this, not only because it is better for the world around us, but because it is better/healthier for ourselves as well.

 

[karaleigh]

In the previous topic we see that people are asking is it moral to hunt. Another question more pertinent to fluent society is: Is it moral to eat factory farmed foods?

Not to be quick about factory farmed foods, but I have never seems a bass boat pulled along side the lobster tank at my near by grocery store. So, I’m still at the regular ocean catch realities. Factory Farmed Foods is like gobbling down your pets. :bowdown2:

 

[triumphguy]

Why?
Do you really think everyone should research every company that produces food or whatever to see how it was reared, killed or manufactured?
People have to eat, drink and wear clothes. They have no obligation other than to buy these things and nobody has the right to judge them.

We are just beginning to realize that child slavery is used in factories that make many of our clothes.

Child slavery is also common in Western Africa in the plantations where the cocoa beans are grown for our chocolate. Kinda takes the joy out of the chocolate doesn’t it!

 

[bmullins]

Why?

If you someone says to you, that particular brand of shaving cream you are using is made by destroying villages in the Andes mountains in order to clear way for the company to grow one of the ingredients, are you then free not to research?

Or do you continue to use the shaving cream, because you yourself have never bothered to research the company? If we are stewards of the planet, then we have a duty to actually do our job. If something we are doing is destroying the planet, the environment, our own health, the health of animals, and causing ‘animals to suffer and die needlessly’ and we are made aware of it, then yes I say we do have a duty to research it and find out.

It disturbs me when someone can easily find out by searching the internet what the company they are buying from does. Not to mention there are many labels now that show you specifically how the product is garnered. From the fair trade, to the organic, to the V stamp, you can see easily if something has been done without a great deal of research, just reading a label.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The extremist point is seldom right.

On the one hand, yes, there are definitely horror stories out there about ‘factory farms’ . . .and also about everything from child labor (clothing), starvation wages (electronics), you name it.

Most people in the U.S. do not have the time, the money, the ‘connections’, or the capacity for sustainability which would enable them to not only research every good or service they need to have, but also to make the ‘moral choice’ and only purchase ‘organic’, ‘fair trade’, etc.

So. . .while I don’t advocate head in the sand attitudes (because that way problems will never get addressed) I also don’t cotton to the sanctimonious “if you aren’t out there parroting whatever is the cause of the week for the righteous environmentalist, you’re a blob and a parasite and a waste of oxygen because you’re venal and stupid” attitude either.

So. . .what to do?

Everybody is different, but I venture to say that everybody could make ONE (just one) positive change. Some could do more. . .some would definitely struggle with just one BUTeven doing it occasionally is better than never trying at all.

So maybe for some, start out buying a bit less of the process stuff and if you can’t afford to go organic that week, put aside a couple of dollars that would have gone for chips, and after a couple of weeks or a month, you WILL have enough to get some good organic food.

For others, maybe it’s paring down the clothing wardrobe instead of buying and buying and buying every fashion trend that comes down the runway.

For others, maybe stop driving the car once or twice a week and walk to work instead.

Little things, step by step, and not feeling as though unless you’re doing ‘everything’ you’re ‘stuck’ and might as well just not think about it at all.

We didn’t become the ‘consumer society’ we are overnight and we won’t change ‘overnight’ either. But hopefully we can each start. . .a little at a time.

 

[bmullins]

The extremist point is seldom right.

On the one hand, yes, there are definitely horror stories out there about ‘factory farms’ . . .and also about everything from child labor (clothing), starvation wages (electronics), you name it.

Most people in the U.S. do not have the time, the money, the ‘connections’, or the capacity for sustainability which would enable them to not only research every good or service they need to have, but also to make the ‘moral choice’ and only purchase ‘organic’, ‘fair trade’, etc.

So. . .while I don’t advocate head in the sand attitudes (because that way problems will never get addressed) I also don’t cotton to the sanctimonious “if you aren’t out there parroting whatever is the cause of the week for the righteous environmentalist, you’re a blob and a parasite and a waste of oxygen because you’re venal and stupid” attitude either.

So. . .what to do?

Everybody is different, but I venture to say that everybody could make ONE (just one) positive change. Some could do more. . .some would definitely struggle with just one BUTeven doing it occasionally is better than never trying at all.

So maybe for some, start out buying a bit less of the process stuff and if you can’t afford to go organic that week, put aside a couple of dollars that would have gone for chips, and after a couple of weeks or a month, you WILL have enough to get some good organic food.

For others, maybe it’s paring down the clothing wardrobe instead of buying and buying and buying every fashion trend that comes down the runway.

For others, maybe stop driving the car once or twice a week and walk to work instead.

Little things, step by step, and not feeling as though unless you’re doing ‘everything’ you’re ‘stuck’ and might as well just not think about it at all.

We didn’t become the ‘consumer society’ we are overnight and we won’t change ‘overnight’ either. But hopefully we can each start. . .a little at a time.

I actually agree completely. Progress not perfection. Do your best, but make sure it’s your best. If you can afford organic, get it. Eat more meals with less factory farmed meat, do it once a day or twice a week. Make small steps that add up.

 

[thistle]

I actually agree completely. Progress not perfection. Do your best, but make sure it’s your best. If you can afford organic, get it. Eat more meals with less factory farmed meat, do it once a day or twice a week. Make small steps that add up.

I will continue to shop the way I always have. No sin. No bad conscience.

 

[grandfather]

My problem with the logic being presented is that it opens up to all kinds of abuse. Should we buy gas from a company that we know is spilling tons of toxic fuel into the plains in Africa? Should we buy clothing from a company that uses slave labor and child labor? Should we eat at a restaurant that has a brothel upstairs?

It is one thing to be ignorant out of ignorance. The person who is completely unaware that factory farming is a bad thing is free of any conscience associated with it, that I agree with. It’s the attitude of I don’t know, and I don’t care, and I’m not going to find out… that disturbs me.

So maybe the question should have been phrased: Is factory farming morally acceptable?

Do you grow food for a living or as a hobby? Or do you want to tell the people who do how they should go about it? Just wondered.

What is factory farming? It would be impossible to sustain the urban populations of the world without modern agriculture. There is surely a better way to do it, but if you try to make any major changes fast there will be mass starvation.

I don’t know that genetically modified seed and vegetables are good or bad in the long run. It could lead us down a road to disaster, which science without moral oversight usually does, but it is what we have. The people who go to their jobs as firemen, engineers, nurses and school teachers are not doing anything immoral when they go to the grocery.

When I was growing up agricultural productivity was not nearly what it is today. Innovations in management practices, seed vitality, pest and disease control have increased yields on acreage all over the world. Things are better now, but we don’t know for how long.

I grow a large organic garden as a hobby and give away a lot of food. Gardening is a violent pastime. I am constantly at war with numerous bugs, animals and microorganisms over the produce. Gophers, voles, mice, rabbits, slugs, cabbage butterflies all want the fruits of my labor. If left alone they would wipe everything out. There is no comparison between what I grow and what can be bought, but the time and money it takes is ridiculous. I don’t count the cost, because if I did I would quit.

If all food were grown this way food prices would increase 10X and no one could afford to eat.

 

[Debora123]

The extremist point is seldom right.

On the one hand, yes, there are definitely horror stories out there about ‘factory farms’ . . .and also about everything from child labor (clothing), starvation wages (electronics), you name it.

Most people in the U.S. do not have the time, the money, the ‘connections’, or the capacity for sustainability which would enable them to not only research every good or service they need to have, but also to make the ‘moral choice’ and only purchase ‘organic’, ‘fair trade’, etc.

So. . .while I don’t advocate head in the sand attitudes (because that way problems will never get addressed) I also don’t cotton to the sanctimonious “if you aren’t out there parroting whatever is the cause of the week for the righteous environmentalist, you’re a blob and a parasite and a waste of oxygen because you’re venal and stupid” attitude either.

So. . .what to do?

Everybody is different, but I venture to say that everybody could make ONE (just one) positive change. Some could do more. . .some would definitely struggle with just one BUTeven doing it occasionally is better than never trying at all.

So maybe for some, start out buying a bit less of the process stuff and if you can’t afford to go organic that week, put aside a couple of dollars that would have gone for chips, and after a couple of weeks or a month, you WILL have enough to get some good organic food.

For others, maybe it’s paring down the clothing wardrobe instead of buying and buying and buying every fashion trend that comes down the runway.

For others, maybe stop driving the car once or twice a week and walk to work instead.

Little things, step by step, and not feeling as though unless you’re doing ‘everything’ you’re ‘stuck’ and might as well just not think about it at all.

We didn’t become the ‘consumer society’ we are overnight and we won’t change ‘overnight’ either. But hopefully we can each start. . .a little at a time.

My contribution is buying organic meat, milk, and eggs.

 

[bmullins]

Do you grow food for a living or as a hobby?

I grow a very small organic garden for me and my family. My family btw are not vegetarian, only I am. I don’t purpose to force anyone to do anything they don’t want to. I did however want to discuss the morality of factory farming. I attend church functions consistently where they eat meat, and I am perfectly comfortable sitting side by side with someone eating it. I still think we need to do more as Catholics and Christians to make the earth a better place.

I also do things to keep animals and bugs out of my garden. I use netting, diatomaceous earth etc. I give away what we grow too much of to my neighbors, the church, or the food pantry. We had a particularly good zucchini year this time around. That and tomatoes, we couldn’t eat them fast enough.

 

[Newbie2]

I actually agree completely. Progress not perfection. Do your best, but make sure it’s your best. If you can afford organic, get it. Eat more meals with less factory farmed meat, do it once a day or twice a week. Make small steps that add up.

Sounds like an agenda behind the OP question.

Is eating “factory farmed meat” moral? Not if one is buying and eating it because they support what they think is the immoral treatment of animals.

Are all “factory farming” operations treating animals with the respect due them? No.

How do e define “moral treatment of animals”? It’s under debate, and a provincial matter.

 

[bmullins]

Sounds like an agenda behind the OP question.

I highly doubt any question in this forum is asked without an agenda. My purpose in asking it is to have an honest discussion on whether or not factory farming should be seen as moral or not.

 

[garn9173]

You have no way in knowing wether or not the meat you are buying at the grocery store comes from a family farm or a factory farm, which normally can trace it’s roots to being a family operation that just like any other family run business grows and grows…

What defines a “factory farm” and who gets to define what a factory farm is? Would the Galt Ranch in Montana a 100,000 acre ranch with over 3,000 cow/calf pairs, who was one of the featured families on Animal Planet’s “Last American Cowboy” two summers ago be considered a “factory farm”? That operation was and is very much family run.

I’m sorry, but these threads like this and the hunting thread is silly and it all ties back to the thread a week or so ago of “Can Catholics have any fun”? which I see the thread has been deleted

 

[triumphguy]

Maybe if we got to know our local farmers we might have better knowledge of where our food comes from.

One of the most intimate things we can do is eat. (That’s just one of the things that makes the Eucharist so earth shatteringly awesome.) Yet we allow multi-nationals to grow, kill and prepare our food for us, and we have no idea what we are actually putting in our mouths.

 

[grandfather]

Should we be responsible to know the labor and environmental practices of the production of the other things we consume, gasoline, electricity, phamaceuticals, paint, soap, appliances, electronics?

If we have that moral obligation with food it must be true for everything else.

Should people feel guilt for eating a slice of pizza or candy bar? If it is morally wrong then they should.

 

[grandfather]

Maybe if we got to know our local farmers we might have better knowledge of where our food comes from.

One of the most intimate things we can do is eat. (That’s just one of the things that makes the Eucharist so earth shatteringly awesome.) Yet we allow multi-nationals to grow, kill and prepare our food for us, and we have no idea what we are actually putting in our mouths.

How would someone living in the middle of Chicago or L.A. get to know his local farmer?

Do you grow anything? Do you know the history of what you eat is? Do you really seriously think it is immoral (sinful) to not know how your cornflakes were made?

What astounds me about our modern society is the things people find to feel guilty about while the serious moral failures are overlooked.

If it is immoral for people to eat foods produced by multinationals go out and grow
something.

People sit around complaining about things like this while they wolf down pizza delivered and watch the game with a Budweiser is being a hypocrit.

 

[Kelfa28]

I think this is a very interesting question.

Catholics are taught to not torture or act maliciously towards God’s creatures. Does this include sustaining oneself with food supplied from an immoral background?

I have an interest in watching documentaries and have watched several about where and how are food is being processed through films like “Food Inc” and “Fast Food Nation.” Despite knowing how our food is processed I’ve still had a quick bite to eat at Wendy’s occasionally and purchased meat at the local supermarket.

I do make it a point to shop for veggies and other produce and dairy at local Farmer’s Markets but we are currently out of season and there are no local organic stores near where I live, currently.

Should I be including consumption of food that I know has been harmful towards animals in my confession? I doubt it…but it does make you think a little.

 

[triumphguy]

How would someone living in the middle of Chicago or L.A. get to know his local farmer?

Do you grow anything? Do you know the history of what you eat is? Do you really seriously think it is immoral (sinful) to not know how your cornflakes were made?

What astounds me about our modern society is the things people find to feel guilty about while the serious moral failures are overlooked.

If it is immoral for people to eat foods produced by multinationals go out and grow
something.

People sit around complaining about things like this while they wolf down pizza delivered and watch the game with a Budweiser is being a hypocrit.

Budweiser is ****, I make my own pizza and I hate American sports!

And yes I do grow my own food.

There is nothing more intrinsic to a society than its food. If we are being turned into consumers of chemicalized, mechanicalized, and industrialized products passed off as food then I think that is worth looking at, don’t you?

There’s some good food movements in the US. It’s time more of you had a look.

I also think that the same philosophy that pushes contraception, abortion, and the sexualization of the media is connected to this.

We are turned into consumers, and every year we lose a little more of our souls and a little more of our freedom.

 

[grandfather]

Budweiser is ****, I make my own pizza and I hate American sports!

And yes I do grow my own food.

There is nothing more intrinsic to a society than its food. If we are being turned into consumers of chemicalized, mechanicalized, and industrialized products passed off as food then I think that is worth looking at, don’t you?

There’s some good food movements in the US. It’s time more of you had a look.

I also think that the same philosophy that pushes contraception, abortion, and the sexualization of the media is connected to this.

We are turned into consumers, and every year we lose a little more of our souls and a little more of our freedom.

I also am a pizza maker for the same reason I grow most of what I eat, or get it from a neighbor. It is better than what can be bought.

But I have the time and resources to do this and I enjoy doing it.

I have friends who are very busy in religious life caring for souls. They need to eat. They are poor. They eat whatever is available, not the healthiest way to live. They eat a lot of pasta. This is not immoral.

 

[triumphguy]

Hey, we’d probably agree.

I don’t think that people are immoral/wrong/sinful when they struggle to make a living, and through lack of time, lack of money and lack of opportunity buy the most available food.

I do think that big industry and big money and has taken over the production of our food.

Let’s even get rid of the word immoral.

Let’s use different words: healthy, tasty (flavorful).

I bet if I saw a chicken in a factory farm the last words that would escape my lips would be: “Yummy, that looks good to eat.”

Yummy:
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Yummy:
http://www.grillsportverein.de/foru...sche-handwerkskunst-teil-2-aberdeen-angus.jpg

Not yummy: