Is it moral to force people to buy health care?

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I have to say I have over reacted a bit by saying they are all charlatans. They are not. There are many areas in which they can and do help, mostly in accidents. However
as far as curing desease I don’t think there is much they can do to help. I think for the most part they make things much worse. Having said that I would not mind a reasonable insurance for accidents such as broken leg, neck, snake bite, etc… That’s the area
they are good in.
 
What if I don’t believe in the modern medicine (as I don’t) ? Why should I be forced to buy their ‘service’ if I’m totally against it. I don’t ever intend to go to any doctor because I don’t think they can help. They are a bunch charlatans and frauds in white coats. Why was this not ever an issue for the Catholic bishops ? This is just a legalized robbery designed to steal money from people like me who would otherwise never pay them. I thought stealing was a mortal sin.
And I don’t believe in car insurance, but the law say I have to buy it anyway. If I find you unconscious on the sidewalk from a brain anurysm and you are taken to the hospital, you will have less of a bill under this scenario. And don’t tell me you will never have one. Everyone who ever had thought they’d never get one too.
 
I have to say I have over reacted a bit by saying they are all charlatans. They are not. There are many areas in which they can and do help, mostly in accidents. However
as far as curing desease I don’t think there is much they can do to help. I think for the most part they make things much worse. Having said that I would not mind a reasonable insurance for accidents such as broken leg, neck, snake bite, etc… That’s the area
they are good in.
You’d better tell that to all the people who haven’t died of polio, malaria, heart disease, cancer, etc. because of modern medicine. I guess that’s why places with modern medicine have life expectancies around 80 (the US is only 78 because so many people don’t have access to medical care) - while places like Swaziland have life expectancies in the 30’s. Having only some people pay for health insurance makes it more expensive for the people that do pay for it, because they have to subsidize people like you who don’t want to pay for it.

Despite your ravings about modern medicine, when you get sick you’ll be first in line to get care. By refusing to have medical insurance, you are a parasite on those who do have insurance.
 
In my view (and in the view of growing number of people who have eyes to see) most of them are arrogant charlatans and frauds when it comes to curing just about ANY desease. The reality proves this point. All they ever do is write prescriptions for poisons produced by the corrupt pharma cartel. They never cure anything they just treat symptoms. This is the real reason why they had to pass this bill. Given enough time most people would see them for what they are and quit paying them and their house of cards would collapse.
I take umbrage with your tyrade. My grandmother was a nurse nearly a half centery and you are calling her a charalatan, that is insulting. Asside from doctors many lives were saved because of her not to mention her helping me with my first ever emergencyroom visit for a kidneystone. Everything else asside Im glad you are being forced to do whats good for you! Leave your attitud in the dark ages where it belongs.
 
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is an old tactic of authority. This is just the latest example. The fact that so many support it is indicative of how the public’s view of ideals like liberty and free will has become corrupt. Just 20 years ago, people would have laughed at you for suggesting that cameras be on every street corner in the city. Now it’s commonplace, and the sheep love the “safety” they provide.

It’s an old story and it doesn’t end well.

Yes, it is immoral to make people buy health care insurance.
We make people go to school for 16 or 18 (Michigan) years. We make them pay for public schools all their life.

When the government forces you to buy health insurance, it is a form a taxation, your money goes into the pool to pay for other people’s health care.

Don’t confuse the issues. You don’t have to seek health care, you just have to pay for it – totally separate issues.

I think it’s legal and moral to force you to buy medical insurance. The OP says he/she doesn’t want any part of health care. That’s not reasonable and that’s not the position of teaching in the Catholic Church – if you don’t take care of yourself, you are killing yourself, which is wrong. Psalm 24:1 – your body belongs to God, you have to take care of it. You have to take care of your parents, too, so pay up!
 
Show me how I place burden on the society ? I think it’s the other way around, they are placing burden on me by stealing my money…
You are sinning by placing money more important than health.
 
I take umbrage with your tyrade. My grandmother was a nurse nearly a half centery and you are calling her a charalatan, that is insulting. Asside from doctors many lives were saved because of her not to mention her helping me with my first ever emergencyroom visit for a kidneystone. Everything else asside Im glad you are being forced to do whats good for you! Leave your attitud in the dark ages where it belongs.
I said most (not all) doctors are arrogant charlatans when it comes to curing anything. This is from my own experience and experiences of many other people.

For example, pumping people who have cancer with poisonous chemotherapy is in my view downright criminal and yet it’ considered acceptable treatment.
 
With the lifetime limits now eliminated by law, does that mean that we all have equal health insurance coverage?

I have traditional health insurance (up to the present) and now these previously uninsured 35 million are getting Medicaid – that’s not insurance - that is welfare. A lot of doctors will not accept Medicaid patients, and I think some hospitals reject them, too (might be wrong there).

That does not produce equal medical coverage, does it? They’re not all paying the same premiums, are they? I think there’s a lot about this law that is unclear.

I pay over $1500 / yr for medical premiums, and I still have to make co-pays and have $2000 annual deductible (which I reached last year). And, THAT doesn’t account for my medication co-pays. I use over $10,000 in medication /year (most covered by insurance).
 
I said most (not all) doctors are arrogant charlatans when it comes to curing anything. This is from my own experience and experiences of many other people.

For example, pumping people who have cancer with poisonous chemotherapy is in my view downright criminal and yet it’ considered acceptable treatment.
I had a greatgrandmother go through chemotherapy, and while is was a hassle it kept her around for her greatgrandchildren which she adored and adored her. She lived to 93, we think it added at least 10 good years to her life, most of it living independently. You seem to forget there are other factors involved in any disease, like genetics. Humans are far too different from eachother to make guarentees when it comes to medical treatment. If chemo is so bad what do you suggest?
 
What if I don’t believe in the modern medicine (as I don’t) ? Why should I be forced to buy their ‘service’ if I’m totally against it. I don’t ever intend to go to any doctor because I don’t think they can help. They are a bunch charlatans and frauds in white coats. Why was this not ever an issue for the Catholic bishops ? This is just a legalized robbery designed to steal money from people like me who would otherwise never pay them. I thought stealing was a mortal sin.
All I know is that I’m very glad that my sister will be able to be insured under the new policy. She has severe migraines and constant panic and anxiety attacks. She needs medicines to help control these problems… and, believe you me, these medicines certainly aren’t cheap.
I suppose we could also ask: “Is it moral to tax people? What if those people don’t like the United States government and what it does with tax money?” However, the simple fact is that taxation generally helps more people than it hurts. Hopefully this new healthcare bill will work similarly.
 
All I know is that I’m very glad that my sister will be able to be insured under the new policy. She has severe migraines and constant panic and anxiety attacks. She needs medicines to help control these problems… and, believe you me, these medicines certainly aren’t cheap.
Problem is that all these medicines are through their deadly sideffects slowly destroying
your sister. She’d be much better off finding natural cures which are far more effective with no sideeffects. See curezone.com
 
Glenn Beck comes on tv where I live and talks about the problems with the healthcare plan Obama just signed into law. Everyone here watches him.
 
Problem is that all these medicines are through their deadly sideffects slowly destroying
your sister. She’d be much better off finding natural cures which are far more effective with no sideeffects. See curezone.com
I personally disagree. I find no problem with conventional medicine and neither does she. Using “natural cures” can also have unpleasant side-effects (St. John’s Wort and heart palpatations comes to mind). Anti-depressants have helped me immensely and anti-anxiety medicines were working very well for her when she was insured and able to afford them. Neither of us had any noticeable side effects from the medications we were prescribed.
Thank you for the friendly advice though. 🙂
 
And I don’t believe in car insurance, but the law say I have to buy it anyway.
No you don’t. Where in the world did you get that idea? No one is forcing you to buy a car. :confused:

Of course following the logic of this thread so far why can’t the imperial federal government use it’s police power to force us to buy a car? After all, people without cars put a burden on society because we have to fund public transportation systems. 😉

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
bailouts for banks, subsidies for businesses, welfare, and many things you may never use.

If this is stealing, so are taxes.🤷
They most certainly are stealing. If you use force to take money from me, the person who earned it, and give it to another person on welfare who didn’t work for it or earn it what else would you call it?

If I walked next door with a gun and took money from my neighbor and gave it to a homeless person I would be arrested, but somehow it’s ok for the government to do the same thing?

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
What if I don’t believe in the modern medicine (as I don’t) ? Why should I be forced to buy their ‘service’ if I’m totally against it. I don’t ever intend to go to any doctor because I don’t think they can help. They are a bunch charlatans and frauds in white coats. Why was this not ever an issue for the Catholic bishops ? This is just a legalized robbery designed to steal money from people like me who would otherwise never pay them. I thought stealing was a mortal sin.
I don’t agree with your premise about doctors being charlatans.

Taxation, in of itself, is not unjust.

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church says:
379. Jesus refuses the oppressive and despotic power wielded by the rulers of the nations (cf.* Mk 10:42) and rejects their pretension in having themselves called benefactors* (cf.* Lk* 22:25), but he does not directly oppose the authorities of his time. In his pronouncement on the paying of taxes to Caesar (cf.* Mk* 12:13-17;* Mt* 22:15-22;* Lk* 20:20-26), he affirms that we must give to God what is God’s, implicitly condemning every attempt at making temporal power divine or absolute: God alone can demand everything from man. **At the same time, temporal power has the right to its due: Jesus does not consider it unjust to pay taxes to Caesar. **
At the same time, we are warned about creating a dependence:
In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again *the principle of subsidiarity *must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.

**By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending. **In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them and who act as neighbours to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need.
John Paul II, Centesimus Annus, 48
Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do. For every social activity ought of its very nature to furnish help to the members of the body social, and never destroy and absorb them.
Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, 79

Bottom line is that you are not all wet about your thought that it is immoral for the State to be involved in this kind of thing. My thought is that the role of the State should be to guarantee access to health care: that is that nobody should be prohibited from receiving the health care that he or she desires. But I also think that the provision and payment for that health care should be done on a more distributed basis than having a centralized State basis (whether it is directly administered by the State or administered via various private entities at the direction of the State).

But within various parameters that have been laid out in the Social Magesterium, there is room for lots of prudential judgment.

While I don’t see anything in the Magesterium defining that the State cannot force you to do something; I think in this case, it is a direct violation of the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution. But that is a legal issue, not a moral one.
 
No you don’t. Where in the world did you get that idea? No one is forcing you to buy a car. :confused:

Of course following the logic of this thread so far why can’t the imperial federal government use it’s police power to force us to buy a car? After all, people without cars put a burden on society because we have to fund public transportation systems. 😉

Yours in Christ
Joe
Ofcourse without a car my life would totally stop. Most of where I go is not on a busline. Without me to driver her places my wife would be dead. She has many health problems.
 
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