Is it moral to shoot stray cats?

[puzzleannie]

there is a huge difference between a stray cat and a feral cat, particulary a pack of feral cats. they are varmints, dangerous to humans and other animals, a reservoir for rabies here along the border, and quite vicious. on your land with the proper safeguards, shoot at will is my bet. by the way the ranchers here know never to pick up a dead animal without gloves and protection and to dispose of the body properly, to avoid contaminating water supplies and wildlife nesting areas.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

It depends on where you live. In all states, except South Dakota and Minnesota, it is illegal to shoot feral cats. I’m not sure about other nations.

The destruction of all non-native animals are incouraged by the state of Indiana. This is also true of most states. This includes, feral hogs, feral pigeons, feral cats, non native game animals like escaped elk and exotic deer. The destruction of non-native birds like starling and english wrens is incouraged by any means at any time. No special permits are required, no regulations on the type of weapon used.

Any good steward of the land as intrusted to us by God, should follow the guildlines set forth by there own state regarding feral animals, as this gentleman from northwestern Indiana has proposed.

Blanket statements (ie opinions) without research regarding these laws should be kept to ones self.

 

[melensdad]

there is a huge difference between a stray cat and a feral cat

Yes, the title of my thread is incorrect. It should read “feral” cats as these are not strays, they are absolutely wild cats in any form of the definition.

BTW, as far as the legal issues, in Indiana I am not sure if it is legal to shoot a cat. What I know is that it is legal, if you live in rural areas like I do, to shoot pests on your own land. For example, there is a coyote hunting season in my area, but as a land owner, I can legally kill a coyote in or out of “season” on my property.

I prefer not to use poison because that is a nasty death.

A high velocity rifle bullet will easily kill a feral cat very humanely. In fact the cat will never even hear the shot that killed it because the bullet travels at speeds faster than sound.

For those who suggest that a bullet wound is painful, I’d suggest that we are talking about different types of bullets, different speeds, etc. Just a bit of an education, many handgun bullets travel at less than 900 feet per second and many do not expand very well. A decent hunting rifle or target rifle will typically shoot bullets at 2500 to over 3500 feet per second. The bullets are designed specifically to induce massive shock and tissue damage. It is very common for deer sized animals to simply fall over dead without taking even a single step. To hit an animal the size of a cat with a similar bullet would absolutely instantly kill it before it knew it was even hit.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

this is why it is always good to find a shelter that has a no kill policy.
unfortunately, your correct. there are feral cats that are not fit for adoption. in cases like this, it is up to the shelter to do what they feel is necessary for the animal.

So entrusting the killing to someone else to do it for you is better than doing it yourself. Remember this entity is there to save animals not to kill them. Why not allow that entity to use there finanical resourse to help animals in need of help instead of using their limited resourse to kill feral cats.

Asking not what your county(government)can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Kill the cats

 

[CarrieH]

I don’t understand why a high velocity bullet is LESS HUMANE than catching a cat in a trap, ripping it out of its environment, taking it to a strange place where people in heavy leather gloves will hold it down while they inject it with poison. Help me with that.

I agree, as long as you are a good shot. Euthanizing a feral cat is not a pretty thing. They don’t cooperate for the IV insertion in the way that a domesticated cat might, so they are restrained (and cats hate to be restrained)! Sometimes they use the “crush cage,” which doesn’t crush them to the point of injury, but the sides move in sort of like a vise until the cat is held securely enough that it can’t squirm around. If they can’t get an IV in, the cat is killed by a direct injection into the heart or kidney after being sedated with a medication which often makes them retch and vomit. Given my choice of a quick bullet or this scenario, I’d choose the bullet, thank you.

 

[Godi]

I grew up on a Dairy farm. People somehow thought that we were a cat repository. Once in a while you would see the vehicle, at night, slow down by the barn, the brake lights would come on, then the dome light & the next morning milking there would be a couple of new cats. Now a barn needs cats to keep the mice population down but not forty cats. So we would have to thin them down from time to time. Dogs! Don’t get me started on dogs. I cann’t begin to tell you how many dog related attacks on cows we would have. Little Fido would start chasing the cows, playing, then nip at the cows udders & rip open a hind quarter or teat. People think their little terrier or what ever was so innocent. Sometimes this would ruin the milk cow & it would be sent in for beef. People are so irresponsible when it comes to pets.

 

[melensdad]

I think it’s a dreadful thing, being a cat lover. I can’t imagine St. Francis would be happy.

I also can’t imagine that St. Francis would suggest that a predator species be introduced at the top of the food chain into an area where they can simply kill off the native wildlife.

There are feral cat groups, which trap the cats and spay/neuter them. Yes, they release them back - feral cats tend to be completely unadoptable as you probably know. But, it ends the cycle of reproduction. I feel funny as a Catholic saying that!

While it ends the cycle of reproduction, it does not resolve the problem until all the cats finally die off, which could be years from now.

It is illegal to shoot strays in most states. Only one I know of has adopted a law making it legal and it is Minnesota(i think).

There is a legal difference between HUNTING and PEST CONTROL. From my research, it is apparently legal to shoot feral cats on my property.

It is better to take it to a humane society where it is more likely to be killed humanely(but if you are in a rural area it may not be humane), or even better find out if there is a spay and save program that spays and neuters cats and releases them. They don’t always release them where they got them.

How do I catch them? I have to buy a trap and they are expensive. These traps average $50 each, and will only catch one cat at a time. Each time I catch a cat, I’d then have to transport it 30+ minutes to the county seat to drop it off, where it would be killed. So it would be over an hour driving for each of a couple dozen cats, that’s a lot of gas money too. A bullet costs under a half a buck.

I’m sorry, but I’m not about to spend money to spay/neuter them either. Especially if they get returned (anywhere) to the wild where they will continue to cause damage to the environment.

I agree, spay/neuter is the real answer in all of this. Why doesnt the op speak to their humane society closest to them and discuss solutions?

See above. BTW, we do have a couple humane societies in the suburban parts of our county, they require you bring in the animal.

It is a moral thing, we are to take care of those God gave us to care for, which includes His animals.

If we are to care for God’s creatures, then are we not suggesting that we are putting feral cats at a higher priority than chipmunks, squirrels, woodcocks, and bluebirds? Why do we get to introduce a predator for which these animals have no natural defense? This does not seem like good stewardship to me!

I understand your frustration, but unless the cat is a danger to you, your family, and/or the family pets, I think it is wrong to shoot them.

This is an interesting point. We have 4 dogs, and we love cats but have none because our big dog would not tolerate a house cat. There is no way that these cats are a “danger” to my family or my pets. But they are a danger to the local wild animals and they make a mess by killing many of these birds/animals and then not eating them. They often stalk them, kill them and then leave their dead prey for us to clean up.

(I know it is illegal, an ethical concern in & of itself).

As already mentioned, it is not illegal on my property in my state, so that issue is now resolved.

So for those of you who are opposed to the idea, please help me out here. What other practical solution do I have? Other than to pray for a very long and very cold winter to naturally cull the cats? We do have coyotes, plenty of them, but they stay well away from the house, stick to the tree lines, along the creeks or in the farm fields. The cats seem to thrive in the woods surrounding the house well away from the coyotes.

 

[vz71]

This the best thing for truly feral cats.
And remember that, when you kill a feral cat, she may have a litter of kittens who will starve without her. (Or be eaten by other animals). Better to trap them, & spay/neuter or humanely put down.

What do you suppose happens to these litters while the animal is being trapped and killed?

 

[bengal_fan]

Realize also that if these cats are not destroyed then we are valuing their lives above the lives of the native species. Which animal has more rights, those native animals that live in the wild habitat, or those that are not native and are destroying it?

i am speaking a bit tongue in cheek but…

technically you are not a native species to that environment. your home killed many natural species. so should i shoot you? probably not. i understand the concept of invasive species having studied environmental biology, but there is the concept of humanely dealing with the problem. i don’t see shooting them as the most humane way. the other ways definitely take more time, energy, etc. but just because it’s harder doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pursue it. i would say shooting them is not moral simply because there is a more humane way of removing them from the area. plus, we (humans) introduced them as an invasive species so we have a responsibility to help them and the environment, not just what is convenient for us.

 

[manualman]

Do your research. If indeed, it is likely that these non-native invaders are ravaging the local bird ecosystem AND the law allows you to cull them yourself on your land, then I say…
Lock n load! I would even go so far as to say it is OK to enjoy doing it as well! There is no guilt or shame in taking satisfaction in maintaining the healthy natural function of the area around your home. Of course, I might just like birds better than cats…

 

[melensdad]

i would say shooting them is not moral simply because there is a more humane way of . . .

Which way is more humane?

Trapping them, tossing them (and the trap) in the dark trunk of a car while driving 30+ minutes to the county shelter, the holding them down, and injecting them with poison sure does not sound very appealing, but that is what would happen to them if I took them to the county shelter.

Please help with this, as previously mentioned, a high velocity bullet travels well above the speed of sound and is designed to instantly kill. I’d be using bullets that literally travel at speeds of roughly 1/2 MILE PER SECOND which are designed to create immediate terminal shock. The cat would never hear the shot and it would be dead in less than the time it takes to blink.

 

[estesbob]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/14/14_6_12.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_18.gif

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_26.gif

A picture is worth a thousand words.

%between%

 

[cockatoo]

There is a legal difference between HUNTING and PEST CONTROL. From my research, it is apparently legal to shoot feral cats on my property.

The people in Minnesota who pushed the cat shooting law were not exactly hunters they were people dealing with what would be called a pest, but couldn’t shoot cats before that law because cats are considered pets even if they don’t have a home. If you shot a deer few will really care, but if you shot a cat(s) that is an entirely different situation.

When animals are known to be domesticated and not a normal food source it becomes a big deal if one got shot.

 

[melensdad]

When animals are known to be domesticated and not a normal food source it becomes a big deal if one got shot.

Apparently it is not a big deal in Indiana

I’m still wondering about the more humane methods, and honestly I don’t see a bullet as being inhumane given how quickly it would kill the cat versus the alternate ways of killing the cat.

And honestly, I think the who spay/neuter thing is really insane. It admits that the cat doesn’t belong in the wild, but it reintroduces the cat to the wild after the procedure What is up with that? Then, after admitting the cat doesn’t belong, but putting it back into the eco-system, the cat continues to destroy the native animals for the remainder of its natural life To me that seems to be terribly inhumane to the wildlife species and obviously shows we value the life of a foreign creature over the life of a native creature.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I don’t see any moral issue here.

Fire away.

Tennis ball @ 500 yards? Wow! You’re good!

 

[melensdad]

I don’t see any moral issue here.

Fire away.

Tennis ball @ 500 yards? Wow! You’re good!

My daughter is my shooting buddy, she and I knock down targets on the weekends
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Long range target shooting is my hobby. I don’t hunt and don’t like to kill animals. Common target bullets maintain supersonic velocities out past 1200 yards. It is common to have 500 foot pounds of energy out past 900 yards. No cat will ever know what hit it at those velocities and terminal energies. But the proper tools allow for amazing accuracy and incredible distances.

 

[cockatoo]

Apparently it is not a big deal in Indiana

I’m still wondering about the more humane methods, and honestly I don’t see a bullet as being inhumane given how quickly it would kill the cat versus the alternate ways of killing the cat.

And honestly, I think the who spay/neuter thing is really insane. It admits that the cat doesn’t belong in the wild, but it reintroduces the cat to the wild after the procedure What is up with that? Then, after admitting the cat doesn’t belong, but putting it back into the eco-system, the cat continues to destroy the native animals for the remainder of its natural life To me that seems to be terribly inhumane to the wildlife species and obviously shows we value the life of a foreign creature over the life of a native creature.

1st. It is to prevent them from adding more.
2nd. It allows the cats to die out.

Athens, Greece has a city wide program that worked pretty well with stray dogs. They took all the strays, nuetured and spayed them and then released them back into the city. Most of the dogs I saw are older now and dying out.

 

[melensdad]

1st. It is to prevent them from adding more.
2nd. It allows the cats to die out.

I understand both points 1 and 2.

It completely misses the points I asked about several times regarding the killing of the native species (the elimination of natural selection by introducing a non-native element), and the poor stewardship we are showing to the natural eco-system by reintroducing them where they clearly don’t belong.

Athens, Greece has a city wide program that worked pretty well with stray dogs. They took all the strays, nuetured and spayed them and then released them back into the city. Most of the dogs I saw are older now and dying out.

So now they have a bunch of old sick dogs dying in the streets? Disease and starvation do not sound very humane.

 

[Delphinus85]

wrong. the humane society’s will only destroy an animal if it is deemed unfit for adoption. thankfully, alot of shelters are finally adopting a no kill policy. i don’t think anyone should kill an animal.
not unless it is wounding you and your in fear for your life. a stray cat had the unfortunate happenstance of being dumped off or it grew up wild. its not the fault of the cat now is it? no. i am an animal activist. so i feel it is wrong to shoot an animal unless you have to. its excessive. do what she suggests, and take the animal after using a humane cat trap to take it to the spca.

Since the OP said feral cats, that generally entails they are so wild (and older) that they cannot be tamed and cannot be placed for adoption.

 

[Wolseley]

I see no problem with disposing of a feral predator. These aren’t somebody’s poor little pet kittycats, they are wild, predatory animals. There isn’t any difference between controlling a feral cat population and controlling a rat overpopulation problem.

About 20 years ago on my parent’s place (10 acres), there was a feral cat running loose; he had literally cleaned all the birds, squirrels, and rabbits out of the entire area. I tried to draw a bead on him several times, but he was wise—he’d move to put a tree between me and him.

Finally one day I nailed him with a .22-caliber rifle, and he went like a streak into the woods. I went out and tracked him until I found him, crouched under a tree and hissing at me, eyes blazing. I knelt down and put another round through the base of his neck, and that was that. Buried the cat, problem solved.

It took more than a year for the native wildlife and bird populations to come back, however.

Where I live now (85 acres), we used to have a cat problem, but I didn’t have time to take care of it. No need, however; two of them were run over in the road, and the third one got nailed by the coyotes that live in the back part of the property.

The major problem I have now is squirrels getting into the bird feeders----the squirrel population has just gone berserk over the last year. I have plenty of ammo, however, and my .22 has a crosshair sight, so I suspect we’re going to be having squirrel pie before the winter is out. Mighty tasty if you cook 'em right, with some vegetables and gravy.