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Tig
Guest
Some smell so bad the dogs won’t even go near them
http://www.shelburnecatholic.org/images/cat_and_dogs_humor.jpg
What a picture! Either that cat is brave or very stupid! I vote the later. 
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What a picture! Either that cat is brave or very stupid! I vote the later.
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melensdad
Guest
Yup, that is really the issue I have. We love our property and moved here for many reasons, one of which was the diverse wildlife.
I don’t know exactly where the line is drawn on the definition. I would guess a “true” feral is wild and born wild. But something like an uncared for farm cat, that was born in captivity, but then set “free” to live on the farm to control mice/rats/etc could easily become a feral cat, even if not a “true” feral. Certainly its kittens could be true feral cats; especially in the case I am dealing with where the people moved away.
Honestly when I started this thread I didn’t know which way I was going to go with my issue. But the more I read the posts and thought about the logic of TRAP, NEUTER & RELEASE the more I began to see it as a disturbing and immoral option.
Trapping and taking to a shelter allows me to ease my mind that the cats are “taken care of” but then the reality is the shelter actually kills the cats. So that is really no different than just killing them myself. Either way I have sentenced them to “death” but one way is quick, the other way is traumatic because they’d be stuck in a trap for hours, then transported, then manhandled and injected with poison.
Feeding them is not practical, and could actually increase their populations. It could also draw in other pests like raccoons. While raccoons can be dangerous pests, they are native and generally stay away from us as long as we don’t do silly things like leave dog food outside. Further, feeding cats would also feed wild animals and they might become semi-dependent upon man-provided food, which could lead to further unnatural population growth and imbalance. Hence very bad stewardship of the land!
Ignoring the problem is apparently what I have done for too long. The problem is now so obvious that it can’t be ignored. But it certainly shows bad stewardship of my property by my inaction. The native species are the ones that suffer. We don’t see ANY bluebirds anymore. Ditto pheasants and woodcock. Cardinals are also rare. I used to love to watch the chipmunks play in the early morning while reading the early newspaper. They are pretty much gone too. I see them from time to time, but its rare.
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Wolseley
Guest
The only thing that a feral cat population is good for is keeping rats and mice down, and maybe gophers if they’re a problem. The problem is that they also take out songbirds, squirrels, chipmunks, and other beneficial species.
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FiremanFrank
Guest
First off, there’s a difference between a stay cat (has an owner and a home, but is lost and/or separated from it’s human companions) and a feral cat.OK here are the facts.
If not, why not?
- I live waaaay out in the country, shooting pests is perfectly legal.
- Cats are NOT a native predator in this area.
- The native birds, squirrels, etc are easy pray for cats and the cats are killing the natural species.
- The balance of nature is being thrown off by stray cats and it is even affecting plant species.
So is it moral to shoot the stray/feral cats?
Secondly, I think you’re asking the wrong questions.
It seems to me the questions you should be asking are:
- Would I want to shoot what might turn out to be someone’s beloved pet?
- If I answered “Yes” to the above question, is that a good thing?
http://www.alljunk.dk/pics/cute cat.jpg
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melensdad
Guest
Well I’ve said several times that I have no desire to kill any animal. I’ve done it to put injured animals out of their misery. I take no pleasure in it. Please go back to some of the posts were I describe these particular cats and the situation of how they came to find themselves here. It is clear these are not pets. Here is a photo of the GPS system in my car, it shows the paved and major roads around my property. The white line in the bottom right of the screen is a “scale” and that white line = 1/2 mile. My “yard” ends at the blue line that you see crossing the screen, that would be a creek that is way too wide for a cat to cross. The image shows an area about 25 square miles. In that area all the homes would be on the bottom part of the screen, there are perhaps a total 25 homes in the area covered by that map. My narrow private lane is not visible on the map, but there are other houses on my lane, none have cats, most have dogs. So I think we can reasonably rule out the pet issue.
Further, your post seems to imply that the cats have a dominion over the land and over the native species, while we Catholics are told to behave in a way that show good stewardship to the land and the natural resources. As several posts have indicated, the cats are destroying the native species.
How is it moral to leave the cats and allow them to destroy the native species?
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FiremanFrank
Guest
I would certainly hope so.
Which I think then begs the question “How moral is it to destroy one living creature to save another, native habitat or not?”
Therefore leading us back to question #2 of my original post:
If I answered “Yes” to the above question, is that a good thing?
Seeing how you correctly thought it necessary to post this question in the first place, I’m seriously guessing that the answer to that is a resounding NO.
Have you thought about trapping and then relocating the felines? As taking that route would readily relieve your conscience of any burden that you might have (either now or later on) regarding the matter.
That’s what I would do …
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blacktiger057
Guest
Oh My GOD YES, it is so very IMMORAL! It is wrong! Do I shoot people who walk on my doorstep begging for food?
Cats are awesome creatures. If they really bother you, take them to a humane society. If they do not get adopted, at least they will die painlessly.
Shooting animals is very heartless and cruel, unless you are using the animals as food. And I dont think you eat cats…
Why can’t you take them to a shelter instead of killing them?
Cats are awesome creatures. If they really bother you, take them to a humane society. If they do not get adopted, at least they will die painlessly.
Shooting animals is very heartless and cruel, unless you are using the animals as food. And I dont think you eat cats…
Why can’t you take them to a shelter instead of killing them?
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blacktiger057
Guest
An excellant point!
It is a crime to kill one of God’s creature just to make your life easier.
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blacktiger057
Guest
No, that is a natural cycle of life. Stray cats need to kill to eat, just like any other animal. Does it disturb you that snakes(a common prey for my cat) eat mice and chipmunks? Should we shoot snakes because they are just eating to survive.
I’ll tell you what really disturbs me. It disturbs me that someone(whoever start this thread) is even CONSIDERING murdering a cat to make their life easier. If you shoot something, then you should eat it. Otherwise, it is not hunting, but murder. Ruthless murder. That is what disturbs me.
You can probably tell by now that I love animals like I love people…
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vern_humphrey
Guest
No, it is not a natural cycle of life. Cats are exotics – that is, they are not native to the Americas. Therefore their prey did not evolve under cat preditation.
Introducing exotic predators into a naieve environment can have catestrophic results.
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melensdad
Guest
Well you clearly are not following the logic of the thread, nor do you seem to be following some of the thinking on the morality of stewardship of the land. So please, let me do a quick recap for you.
When I started this thread I was unsure. As it moved along it became very clear that shooting the cats is not only moral, it is right.
What you missed by skipping to the end is the logic involved and the discussion about relocation.
First, some folks suggested trapping, neutering and releasing. Others suggested a variant of that which involved trapping and releasing in a different area. The cats are simply killing the native wildlife and running amok. I won’t repeat all the problems, please go back and read them. The biggest problem with catch & release is that it is bad stewardship of the land, something the Church tells us is wrong. We are to be responsible for the environment but leaving the cats to kill the native species and throw off the eco-system is clearly bad stewardship.
Trapping and releasing in a different area simply moves the problem to a different area, sort of like dump trash on your neighbors land so you don’t have to look at it. You say YOU would do that. You suggest that it would relieve my conscience. Clearly it would leave me with a very guilty feeling because I would know that I have done the wrong thing. The cats would simply become someone else’s problem. The cats would simply kill the animals wherever they were dropped off. There is plenty of evidence that feral cats are a serious ecological problem. Why would I ignore the facts and simply dump my problem onto someone else
These cats are viscous and do not beg for food. They are unapproachable and totally wild. They do nothing but destroy the songbirds and small animals. To compare them to people in need of food is wrong thinking.
Die painlessly? Sorry but you are wrong on that account. There is trauma followed by painful death involved with trapping them and taking them to a shelter. If the animal is trapped it will be stressed overnight while it waits for the trap to be picked up, then the trap goes into the trunk of a car where it is transported to a shelter. At the shelter people with thick leather gloves and heavy canvas aprons hold the cat down while they inject it with poison. It is hardly pain free. In fact there is a post in this thread that describes the horror of it, from a man who did it as his job.
Let me understand, a very quick, virtually instant death is heartless and cruel, but the accurate description of a shelter death is humane? How is that realistic? A bullet travels faster than sound and is designed to instantly kill an animal like a cat. The cat would never hear the shot that killed it.
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melensdad
Guest
OH MY GOODNESS I CANNOT BELIEVE THE FAULTY LOGIC USED AS WELL AS THE MEAN SPIRIT BEING SHOWN.
First off, I am the person who started the thread. Nice to meet you.
I am not talking about ‘murdering’ a cat to make my life easier. By the way, I am not a hunter.
I am talking about controlling a non-native species that is destroying the population of native animals. We have a couple dozen feral cats out here and they have killed ALL the bluebirds in the area. They have killed ALL the peasants in the area. They have killed ALL the woodcocks in the area. They have seriously harmed the populations of the squirrels and chipmunks as well as the cardinals and other song birds. It has absolutely nothing to do with “making my life easier” and frankly I am insulted you would be so rude as to say something like that.
If you would bother to go back and read this thread you would know that I am an animal lover. You would know I have seriously struggled with this issues. You would even know that I like cats!
Cycle of life is totally disrupted in this circumstance. These cats are not native. The cycle of life, in a world where the church requires that we show good stewardship, implies that we treat the ecology of the world in a responsible manner. These cats don’t belong in the wild and they are destroying the habitat of the creatures that do belong here.
SO PLEASE take a serious read of this thread and reconsider the long term ramifications of the irresponsible stewardship you seem to favor.
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Bennie_P
Guest
Take it easy on him he is just a kid.OH MY GOODNESS I CANNOT BELIEVE THE FAULTY LOGIC USED AS WELL AS THE MEAN SPIRIT BEING SHOWN.
First off, I am the person who started the thread. Nice to meet you.
I am not talking about ‘murdering’ a cat to make my life easier. By the way, I am not a hunter.
I am talking about controlling a non-native species that is destroying the population of native animals. We have a couple dozen feral cats out here and they have killed ALL the bluebirds in the area. They have killed ALL the peasants in the area. They have killed ALL the woodcocks in the area. They have seriously harmed the populations of the squirrels and chipmunks as well as the cardinals and other song birds. It has absolutely nothing to do with “making my life easier” and frankly I am insulted you would be so rude as to say something like that.
If you would bother to go back and read this thread you would know that I am an animal lover. You would know I have seriously struggled with this issues. You would even know that I like cats!
Cycle of life is totally disrupted in this circumstance. These cats are not native. The cycle of life, in a world where the church requires that we show good stewardship, implies that we treat the ecology of the world in a responsible manner. These cats don’t belong in the wild and they are destroying the habitat of the creatures that do belong here.
SO PLEASE take a serious read of this thread and reconsider the long term ramifications of the irresponsible stewardship you seem to favor.
What you mean you are not a hunter?:doh2:
No wonder you haven’t killed those little darlings yet. It’s a little harder when the target bleeds I guess.
But really, if it isn’t against your local laws morally your justified to take care of the cats by shooting them. I really doubt you will convince those that are in opposition that it is the right thing to do.You have looked at the different angles in which to be considered, even some of the cat lovers have said you are morally justified after considering all your options.
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melensdad
Guest
The last time I went hunting was probably 15 years ago and it was bird hunting. I’m a good shot, but not a hunter. I have killed animals, I shot a raccoon recently that had a broken back. It got into a fight with my dog and my dog pretty much tore it apart. It was the right thing to do to shoot it, but that doesn’t make it a pleasant task. I’ve shot many other animals, all were sick or injured. I struggle with this because I like cats. Because an emotional part of me says they should be in someone’s lap getting a nice pat on the head. But these cats are not ever going to get that and that is the reality of it all. But after all the consideration that has been put into this thread, to be insulted and called a murderer is just a little over the top.Take it easy on him he is just a kid.
What you mean you are not a hunter?:doh2:
No wonder you haven’t killed those little darlings yet. It’s a little harder when the target bleeds I guess.
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Bennie_P
Guest
I understand, despite my kidding. Like I mention in an earlier post for a short time I was the person that had to put the needle in the vein of unwanted and abused animals. It was the hardest job I ever had. I also know that the situation you are put in is not easy.
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mesquite_magic
Guest
Oh my…GOSH! Would you read the entire thread before you make such blanket staments! All of your questions have been asked and answered at LEAST 10 times.
Kim
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melensdad
Guest
All I know is that they are a tough lot
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grandfather
Guest
Hi there Tiger,
Murder is the unjust killing of a human being by another human being. I can tell how very upset you are though. The problem is not restricted to felines only. Just think about the millions of mice who will cruelly die tonight in traps that will slam into their brains and bodies and cause them excruciating pain, or worse, that will be cruelly poisoned to death by heartless humans. Then think about the cockroaches who will be lured into traps and poisoned without mercy. Think of the amoeba happily swimming along on clothing and dishes who will be boiled to death by scalding water in dishwashers and clothswashers and dryers. All to make man’s life a little more comfortable. Its everywhere you turn I tell you. Its just so heartbreaking. I am going to get rid of my fly swatter immediately. What right do I have to kill those innocent little victims, just because they want to share some tiny bit of space with my family? I will no longer be an insectophobe and hope the ruthless guy who started this thread will wake up and stop being a bloodthirsty felineophobe. He is just simply vicious. There is some kind of depraved phobe everywhere you look. Don’t you agree Tiger?
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blacktiger057
Guest
I don’t have mouse traps and I don’t swat flies. I try to catch them and then let them go outside. I only kill brown recluses, as these spiders can kill you. Cats cannot kill you.
Instead of shooting it, why can’t you just take it to the humane society? Also, amoeba can kill you too and isn’t conscious in an animal/human sense. They are almost like trees and plants, living, but for the most part unconscious.
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