Is it moral to shoot stray cats?

[melensdad]

Instead of shooting it, why can’t you just take it to the humane society?

Please read the thread where this has been covered several times. Also please note that our county shelter will kill the cats, it is not a no-kill shelter.

 

[bobzills]

i don’t think anyone should kill an animal.

Are you a vegetarian?
Most people will eat hamburgers or chicken sandwiches or tuna sandwiches. But you say not to kill animals. Would you say that it is a mortal sin to kill a chicken and eat a chicken sandwich? Most people would say that it is no sin at all.
I don;t deny that vegetarianism may have certain health benefits, but I don’t see where it is mandated by the Church.

 

[grandfather]

Are you a vegetarian?
Most people will eat hamburgers or chicken sandwiches or tuna sandwiches. But you say not to kill animals. Would you say that it is a mortal sin to kill a chicken and eat a chicken sandwich? Most people would say that it is no sin at all.
I don;t deny that vegetarianism may have certain health benefits, but I don’t see where it is mandated by the Church.

What does what most people say have to do with determining morality? Is morality determined by majority opinion or democratic vote?

 

[guanophore]

OK here are the facts.

• I live waaaay out in the country, shooting pests is perfectly legal.
• Cats are NOT a native predator in this area.
• The native birds, squirrels, etc are easy pray for cats and the cats are killing the natural species.
• The balance of nature is being thrown off by stray cats and it is even affecting plant species.

So is it moral to shoot the stray/feral cats?

If not, why not?

You could try St. Francis method. He used to go out and have a little chat with the pests, and make a deal with them. He is said to have talked to a family of rats that was raiding the kitchen at the monastery, and promised them that, if he would feed them, they would stop getting into the foodstuffs. they agreed and everyone lived happily ever after!

 

[melensdad]

You could try St. Francis method. He used to go out and have a little chat with the pests, and make a deal with them. He is said to have talked to a family of rats that was raiding the kitchen at the monastery, and promised them that, if he would feed them, they would stop getting into the foodstuffs. they agreed and everyone lived happily ever after!

I think I have done a fine job of feeding them game birds, song birds, chipmunks and squirrels for quite a period of time. The problem is these native animals have essentially now been wiped out of an area that can be measured in square miles We are not talking about a suburban back yard where these cats ate the lone cardinal that visited the tree a landscaper installed. We are talking about acre after acre of loss of wild species due to the cats that have gone wild and found the native animals to be easy prey.

But feeding them also feeds other pest species like raccoons. The difference is the raccoons are native and belong out here. Unless they get sick, they stay away from the buildings/house. But when they find food they become ravenous pests that will do anything they can to get it. So you are setting up a situation where the raccoons and cats will be fighting, and while my 90# Akita dog has shredded a few raccoons, I can tell you that no feral cat would stand a chance against an angry raccoon.

So if I feed the cats, which is clearly impractical on this much land, I set up a situation where the cats will fight raccoons and some of the cats will dies (a good thing) but where the raccoons and perhaps other wild animals may become dependent upon the food and start to multiply to numbers that are higher than nature can normally maintain. Then when/if I stop feeding the cats all the animals that have become dependent upon the food would starve, or at least endure severe hardship.

Further, feeding them does not resolve other issues like the fact that the cats will still kill the birds that come into this area. With the cats here no pheasant or woodcock can survive long, which is why we no longer see those species. The low nesting birds like bluebirds are also gone, their nests raided by cats and babies eaten. Chipmunks and squirrels have suffered the same fate, death by cat.

So in the interest of good land stewardship, something that I’m sure St Francis would also advocate, the cats must go.

But, if I set out a 1# pile of food per square mile that was shown in the map on previous posts, I’d have to buy a 25# bag of cat food EVERY DAY. I’m not sure how many HOURS it would take to feed them, but I’d obviously be traveling 25 MILES over the course of the day to get from food station to food station. My utility cart drives a top speed of 12 miles per hour on flat paved ground, so figure I could average 5 miles per hour through paths, across the fields. At that rate I’d spend 5 hours just filling the food stations every day, plus I’d be paying for a 25# bag of cat food every day. Plus my actions would be showing bad stewardship (as outlined many times in the thread). Plus the fact that I have a job to work 10 hours a day, and a family that probably doesn’t want me to spend 5 hours a day, every day, feeding cats. Not to mention the Catholic school bills that I have to pay, I suppose we could send my daughter to public school so we could afford to pay to feed the cats?

 

[Wolseley]

melensdad, you have clearly thought this out and considered all the angles, and I agree with you 100%. The "catch/neuter/release advice is noble, but unrealistic. In their concern for the cats, those advocating this are ignoring the damage the cats are doing to everything else. This is a phenomenon not uncommon amongst city dwellers who are unfamilar with the hard realities of life in the countryside. Again, nobody’s fault, just the way things are.

In my estimation, here’s what you ought to do: go buy yourself 5,000 rounds of ammunition, a box of patches, and a new bottle of Hoppe’s # 9, and go to work. Good hunting and godspeed.

 

[melensdad]

melensdad, you have clearly thought this out and considered all the angles . . . The "catch/neuter/release advice is noble, but unrealistic.

Well I don’t see that “catch/neuter/release” is a “noble” thing at all. But I understand your point and agree that we agree.

In fact the more I look at all this, the more it seems like releasing the cats back to the woods is clearly an immoral act and seriously violates our mandate to good ‘stewardship’ of the environment as outlined by the Pope in some of his recent speeches on our need to treat the environment respectfully. It seems to me that it is clear that releasing the cats to further damage the environment and local eco-system would be very very wrong. We should not place the lives of these non-native cats above the lives of the native species like the birds and small animals that the cats are destroying.

In my estimation, here’s what you ought to do: go buy yourself 5,000 rounds of ammunition, a box of patches, and a new bottle of Hoppe’s # 9, and go to work. Good hunting and godspeed.

I probably have close to 5000 rounds in the cabinet already. I prefer Weapon Shield as it is a cleaner/lube/protectant. I do need more patches! It is, however, way to windy to shoot out past 100 yards today. We’ve got howling winds predicted for all day.

 

[guanophore]

No, that is a natural cycle of life. Stray cats need to kill to eat, just like any other animal. Does it disturb you that snakes(a common prey for my cat) eat mice and chipmunks? Should we shoot snakes because they are just eating to survive.

It would disturb me if someone drove by and dumped their pet snakes in a rural area. It would disturb me if someone moved away and left all their 2 dozen snakes behind.

I’ll tell you what really disturbs me. It disturbs me that someone(whoever start this thread) is even CONSIDERING murdering a cat to make their life easier.

First of all, the OP never said anything about murdering anyone. Secondly, he has been clear throughout the thread that, not only is it a moral dilemma for him, but a distasteful task as well. Thirdly, he has made it abundantly clear that he sees his responsiblity to be a good steward of his environment.

If you shoot something, then you should eat it. Otherwise, it is not hunting, but murder. Ruthless murder. That is what disturbs me.

I have an idea. The OP extended an invitation to come see. Why don’t you come for dinner, and you can have some roast cat,then you will feel better?

You can probably tell by now that I love animals like I love people…

I hope you are more considerate when it comes to judging people.

 

[guanophore]

All I know is that they are a tough lot

savanna.org.au/search/images/feralcat.jpg

 

[guanophore]

I think I have done a fine job of feeding them game birds, song birds, chipmunks and squirrels for quite a period of time. The problem is these native animals have essentially now been wiped out of an area that can be measured in square miles We are not talking about a suburban back yard where these cats ate the lone cardinal that visited the tree a landscaper installed. We are talking about acre after acre of loss of wild species due to the cats that have gone wild and found the native animals to be easy prey.

But feeding them also feeds other pest species like raccoons. The difference is the raccoons are native and belong out here. Unless they get sick, they stay away from the buildings/house. But when they find food they become ravenous pests that will do anything they can to get it. So you are setting up a situation where the raccoons and cats will be fighting, and while my 90# Akita dog has shredded a few raccoons, I can tell you that no feral cat would stand a chance against an angry raccoon.

So if I feed the cats, which is clearly impractical on this much land, I set up a situation where the cats will fight raccoons and some of the cats will dies (a good thing) but where the raccoons and perhaps other wild animals may become dependent upon the food and start to multiply to numbers that are higher than nature can normally maintain. Then when/if I stop feeding the cats all the animals that have become dependent upon the food would starve, or at least endure severe hardship.

Further, feeding them does not resolve other issues like the fact that the cats will still kill the birds that come into this area. With the cats here no pheasant or woodcock can survive long, which is why we no longer see those species. The low nesting birds like bluebirds are also gone, their nests raided by cats and babies eaten. Chipmunks and squirrels have suffered the same fate, death by cat.

So in the interest of good land stewardship, something that I’m sure St Francis would also advocate, the cats must go.

But, if I set out a 1# pile of food per square mile that was shown in the map on previous posts, I’d have to buy a 25# bag of cat food EVERY DAY. I’m not sure how many HOURS it would take to feed them, but I’d obviously be traveling 25 MILES over the course of the day to get from food station to food station. My utility cart drives a top speed of 12 miles per hour on flat paved ground, so figure I could average 5 miles per hour through paths, across the fields. At that rate I’d spend 5 hours just filling the food stations every day, plus I’d be paying for a 25# bag of cat food every day. Plus my actions would be showing bad stewardship (as outlined many times in the thread). Plus the fact that I have a job to work 10 hours a day, and a family that probably doesn’t want me to spend 5 hours a day, every day, feeding cats. Not to mention the Catholic school bills that I have to pay, I suppose we could send my daughter to public school so we could afford to pay to feed the cats?

Of course not! I was TEASING!

 

[mesquite_magic]

This has obviously been a difficult issue for melensdad. I can see that he’s a pretty compassionate person. No one, least of all melensdad, wants to see these cats suffer.

I found one article, on the net, on feral cats that was actually balanced. I thought everyone might want to read it and then make up their mind’s about this issue.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0907_040907_feralcats.html

On a side note, trying not to be un-Christian, I’d like to see someone put a butt-load of buckshot in the behinds of the people who left those cats behind. I’m sure they are off causing this problem in their new home, without a thought to the poor animals they left behind.

Kim

 

[vern_humphrey]

On a side note, trying not to be un-Christian, I’d like to see someone put a butt-load of buckshot in the behinds of the people who left those cats behind. I’m sure they are off causing this problem in their new home, without a thought to the poor animals they left behind.

Kim

You and me both! People dump cats and dogs in the country where they turn feral and can be direct threats to humans and livestock. It would be nice if we could find good homes for the animals, and reserve our fire for the people who dumped them.

 

[guanophore]

On a side note, trying not to be un-Christian, I’d like to see someone put a butt-load of buckshot in the behinds of the people who left those cats behind. I’m sure they are off causing this problem in their new home, without a thought to the poor animals they left behind.

Kim

2 Tim 4:14
“…the Lord will requite him for his deeds.”

 

[dessert]

I have read most of this thread but I may be repeating something.
I like cats but not ferral and if they grow that way it is hard to get them to change even with a lot of kindness.

Our vet says some animals are rodents so don’t feel to bad about killing rodents. They have lots of diseases, mice, porcupines, possums etc.

Our state has bobcats they like to attack ferral cats and we have wolves who are suppose to be preying on the coyotes.

We have a great dog that barks anything out of the yard and two cats that are always in except when they go out to play with the dog. We don’t let them out at night at all and yet I know we have had some people who were shooting cats inthe city hard to catch them at it.
We live by a river so you see the river rats going down the sewer and followed by some cats. Yuk! And I’m not in the country.
buy a pest control alarm systems because a lot of people end up with unusual things in their garages.
I think ferral cats will go after litlle dogs just like a big snake will.
Ahhh the knowledge of living by the river.
D.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

OK here are the facts.

• I live waaaay out in the country, shooting pests is perfectly legal.
• Cats are NOT a native predator in this area.
• The native birds, squirrels, etc are easy pray for cats and the cats are killing the natural species.
• The balance of nature is being thrown off by stray cats and it is even affecting plant species.

So is it moral to shoot the stray/feral cats?

If not, why not?

cats ARE natural predators in every environment. Just because cats can be domesticated does not make them not natural wild predators and they exist in every environment that man has infiltrated. Also because pets cannot be contained you do not know for sure you are shooting a feral cat or just someone’s pet who got out accidentally and is hungry and lost. Trap them and take them into the local Animal Control.

 

[Pete_1]

Oh My GOD

Please don’t say this, it is offensive to God

 

[melensdad]

cats ARE natural predators in every environment. Just because cats can be domesticated does not make them not natural wild predators and they exist in every environment that man has infiltrated. Also because pets cannot be contained you do not know for sure you are shooting a feral cat or just someone’s pet who got out accidentally and is hungry and lost.

Sorry, you are wrong on some counts here, we’ve also discussed these points several times about how we know these are in fact feral cats.

Trap them and take them into the local Animal Control.

**Why? Our local animal shelter will just kill them. ** All it does is transfer the hand of death from me to them. The outcome is the same. The cats die.

However in my case the cats will be shot with a high velocity bullet designed to instantly incapacitate and kill them. The bullets travel at supersonic speeds and will kill the cat before it ever hears the sound of the bullet that hit it.

On the other hand if I trap it, it will likely be in a cage for up to 12 hours, then I will throw the whole cage in the dark trunk of a car where it will be driven for 30+ minutes to the county shelter. It will remain caged for a while, but then a couple people with big heavy leather gloves and thick canvas aprons will grab it and hold it down while they inject poison into it. ** It will die a painful and traumatic death.**

 

[Wolseley]

I probably have close to 5000 rounds in the cabinet already.

Almost as much as me! Admittedly, though, my current stock is about evenly divided between the .22 and my 30.06.

I prefer Weapon Shield as it is a cleaner/lube/protectant.

I’ve always used Hoppe’s. I know some handgunners that swear by Weapon Shield, though; they have arguments with other handgunners that swear by BreakFree.

 

[melensdad]

On a side note, trying not to be un-Christian, I’d like to see someone put a butt-load of buckshot in the behinds of the people who left those cats behind. I’m sure they are off causing this problem in their new home, without a thought to the poor animals they left behind.

Kim

Hey Kim, what do you think about people who do this to dogs:shrug:
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[guanophore]

Hey Kim, what do you think about people who do this to dogs:shrug:

Can dogs be submitted for sainthood?