Is it morally okay to take down advertisements for other churches off a public bulletin board?

[jpelham]

What Athanasius would do is of little importance since we have knowlege of what Jesus did when his disciples came and said: “Lord we have seen a man *who doesn’t walk with us *but who healing in Your Name… Should we tell them him stop?”
Jesus said: “Don’t hinder him. The one who is not against Me, is with Me.”

You say: "Protestantism is likewise heresy in the form of a decoy, an often marvelously enthusiastic one, and satan’s greatest coup thus far, its inability to deprive its adherents of genuinely salvific grace notwithstanding. "

This stands fully to your own account.
The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth and the Life. Christ is our Lord. The Church is not… let us not divinise the Church.
Most Protestants can say Amen to the Creed and believe in the Bible which as I have heard, is sufficient means for salvific faith.
The Grace comes from Christ, mainly through faith in Him and baptism.

In fact, the Catholic Church is, by virtue of the Blessed Sacrament, the incarnate body of Christ. Valid sacraments make the Orthodox a part of this Church. Protestantism comprises real Christian “communities,” but they are not part of the Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church alone. This is expressly taught by the Church. I am Catholic precisely because I believe this. Even so, I am sure that many Protestants will pass from this world to heaven far more quickly than I. Still, all roads do not lead to heaven.

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

Many interesting responses. I agree with the many who have recommended leaving the posters, but putting up some better ones. Perhaps, if you are wondering what Athanatius would do, a pointed response if they are posting false teachings. If an argument ensues, it might be a good chance to minister to some- so long as you can be respectful and clear.

The only time I would take down someone else’s poster is if it was quite offensive or advertised violence. I have taken down pornography and abortion ads before.

It is worth noting that our Church encourages ecumenism:

(on heresy, apostasy, and schism)
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
…
855 The Church’s mission stimulates efforts towards Christian unity. Indeed, “divisions among Christians prevent the Church from realizing in practice the fullness of catholicity proper to her in those of her sons who, though joined to her by Baptism, are yet separated from full communion with her. Furthermore, the Church herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life her full catholicity in all its aspects.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

 

[GraceDK]

jpelham.
In fact, the Catholic Church is, by virtue of the Blessed Sacrament, the incarnate body of Christ. Valid sacraments make the Orthodox a part of this Church. Protestantism comprises real Christian “communities,” but they are not part of the Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church alone.

**GraceDK.
Ahaa… And I thought the Church, the mystical Body of believers was made up of Christians who believe and are baptised.
Indeed there are not two or three Bodies but only one, and last time I checked our Protestant brethren are still in this Mystical Body of Christ… **

This is expressly taught by the Church. I am Catholic precisely because I believe this. Even so, I am sure that many Protestants will pass from this world to heaven far more quickly than I. Still, all roads do not lead to heaven.

**Not all roads. Indeed Jesus Christ is the way…the Only Way I might add. **

 

[jpelham]

jpelham.
In fact, the Catholic Church is, by virtue of the Blessed Sacrament, the incarnate body of Christ. Valid sacraments make the Orthodox a part of this Church. Protestantism comprises real Christian “communities,” but they are not part of the Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church alone.

**GraceDK.
Ahaa… And I thought the Church, the mystical Body of believers was made up of Christians who believe and are baptised.
Indeed there are not two or three Bodies but only one, and last time I checked our Protestant brethren are still in this Mystical Body of Christ… **

This is expressly taught by the Church. I am Catholic precisely because I believe this. Even so, I am sure that many Protestants will pass from this world to heaven far more quickly than I. Still, all roads do not lead to heaven.

**Not all roads. Indeed Jesus Christ is the way…the Only Way I might add. **

I see your point, and it is a good and important one. I would add only that while the spiritual community of believers includes every sincere Christian, the Catholic Church alone is the Church of Christ; others constitute Christian “communities,” but are not part of the Church. If by “Mystrical Body of Christ” you mean those in spiritual communion with the Church, this would be true. But there is a physical Body of Christ, in the Eucharist and extending to all who receive Holy Communion, and this is not the same. I will find citations in the Catechism. One can believe otherwise, but not licitly as a Catholic.

Yes, Jesus is the only way. And surely we are Catholic because while one follows that arduous path, physical as welll as spiritual communion with Christ is more helpful, more humane really, than spiritual communion alone.

 

[PLeeD]

I can’t tell you what a turn-off this is. The closest church to me is Catholic. I’ve been thinking about attending a mass there to see what it’s like. Then I read threads like this and wonder why I should bother?

If some of the posters in this thread are the kind of “christian” I’ll find there, I don’t want any part of it.

 

[JRKH]

I can’t tell you what a turn-off this is. The closest church to me is Catholic. I’ve been thinking about attending a mass there to see what it’s like. Then I read threads like this and wonder why I should bother?

If some of the posters in this thread are the kind of “christian” I’ll find there, I don’t want any part of it.

Just a suggestion…
Perhaps instead of basing your decision on the posts of a few individuals, why don’t you go and let the actual Church, The Mass speak for itself…

Peace
James

 

[PLeeD]

You are right. I got carried away. Sorry.

I do appreciate the correction from some of the other Catholic posters. I just don’t understand how people can think they have the right attitude toward other Christians. It’s unbelievably offensive.

The Catholic church doesn’t seem to teach that attitude, yet it’s very common on this forum. Where does it come from?

 

[JRKH]

You are right. I got carried away. Sorry.

I do appreciate the correction from some of the other Catholic posters. I just don’t understand how people can think they have the right attitude toward other Christians. It’s unbelievably offensive.

The Catholic church doesn’t seem to teach that attitude, yet it’s very common on this forum. Where does it come from?

Which attitude specifically is that? Not trying to be dense here, I just want to be clear on what we are discussing and not make an assumption.

Peace
James

 

[GraceDK]

I see your point, and it is a good and important one. I would add only that while the spiritual community of believers includes every sincere Christian, the Catholic Church alone is the Church of Christ; others constitute Christian “communities,” but are not part of the Church. If by “Mystrical Body of Christ” you mean those in spiritual communion with the Church, this would be true. But there is a physical Body of Christ, in the Eucharist and extending to all who receive Holy Communion, and this is not the same. I will find citations in the Catechism. One can believe otherwise, but not licitly as a Catholic.

Yes, Jesus is the only way. And surely we are Catholic because while one follows that arduous path, physical as welll as spiritual communion with Christ is more helpful, more humane really, than spiritual communion alone.

Dear jpelham.
As far as I understans the Church is made up of those who are baptised and believe that Jesus is saviour and Son of God.
We will not say that people who believe in the Bible, live according to its morals etc, are outside of the Church.
I just saw two Evangelical men at a coffee table, they decided to go and believe God on His Word, so they went into the middle of the city and started praying for people’s healing, and telling them the Gospel… 5 people were healed within 45 minutes. Non believers who were flabberghasted and open to hear what these fellas were talking about. Its written: “These signs will follow those who believe in me… they will cure the sick, cast out demons etc”.

Let us primarily preach salvation in Christ, not primarily salvation in the Church. We have many there who do not believe…
We say the Evangelicals are missing something - and they say we add false things - but whats important is the Gospel of Christ first and foremost.
If we call them brothers they must be our family… our covenant family through baptism, and that is the new Israel and the new Israel is the Church…
Thats how I am thinking about this.
There is only one church, and the true believers cannot be said to be outside it.

 

[PLeeD]

Which attitude specifically is that?

I suppose there are two I can point out on this thread. They are related.

First is the inclination of the OP to tear down flyers from non-Catholic churches. This is an unloving and uncharitable thought. It smacks of pride, and insecurity in one’s own faith. It offends my sensibilities as an American, let alone a Christian.

Second is the broader “protestantism is of Satan” stance. There was really only one poster on this thread that went that far, but it’s fairly prevalent on CAF. I don’t think the Catholic church teaches that the laity should walk around with that chip on their shoulder, yet some do. Again, I think it comes from pride and insecurity, and not from love of neighbor.

Thanks GraceDK for your last post. That is how I see it as well.

By the way, I would never say that Catholics “add false things”. You simply do things that are foreign to me that I don’t understand. I am willing to accept that it may just be ignorance on my part, and that you have the full truth. Even so, I have to follow my own conscience in these things, and trust that God will lead me to the truth in time.

Lastly, if love is the standard we are to live by, then the Mormons I’ve known could teach some CAF catholics more than a thing or two!

 

[JRKH]

Dear jpelham.
As far as I understans the Church is made up of those who are baptised and believe that Jesus is saviour and Son of God.
We will not say that people who believe in the Bible, live according to its morals etc, are outside of the Church.
I just saw two Evangelical men at a coffee table, they decided to go and believe God on His Word, so they went into the middle of the city and started praying for people’s healing, and telling them the Gospel… 5 people were healed within 45 minutes. Non believers who were flabberghasted and open to hear what these fellas were talking about. Its written: “These signs will follow those who believe in me… they will cure the sick, cast out demons etc”.

Let us primarily preach salvation in Christ, not primarily salvation in the Church. We have many there who do not believe…
We say the Evangelicals are missing something - and they say we add false things - but whats important is the Gospel of Christ first and foremost.
If we call them brothers they must be our family… our covenant family through baptism, and that is the new Israel and the new Israel is the Church…
Thats how I am thinking about this.
There is only one church, and the true believers cannot be said to be outside it.

Grace,
Excellent post.
All too often we (including myself) put up walls that The Church is seeking to tear down.
The Cateachims speaks to the “Wounds to Unity” and clearly states that those baptized in the trinitarian form, are members of the Church, just not in full communion…
CCC 818 states in part…“All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

Naturally this does not mean that we should not desire unity, nor does it mean that we, as Catholics, should not share with our brothers in Christ the beauty and fulfillment of the Gospel in the Catholic Church, but in so doing we need to recognize those things of beauty and truth contained in other faith traditions.
To remain focused on Christ…On the positive…And on the Essential Element of God and of our faith…That being Love…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I suppose there are two I can point out on this thread. They are related.

First is the inclination of the OP to tear down flyers from non-Catholic churches. This is an unloving and uncharitable thought. It smacks of pride, and insecurity in one’s own faith. It offends my sensibilities as an American, let alone a Christian.

Second is the broader “protestantism is of Satan” stance. There was really only one poster on this thread that went that far, but it’s fairly prevalent on CAF. I don’t think the Catholic church teaches that the laity should walk around with that chip on their shoulder, yet some do. Again, I think it comes from pride and insecurity, and not from love of neighbor.

Thanks GraceDK for your last post. That is how I see it as well.

Lastly, if love is the standard we are to live by, then the Mormons I’ve known could teach some CAF catholics more than a thing or two!

Thanks for the clarification.
I think that you will agree that, even though there were some rather incharitable thoughts posted, the overwhelming response was that it is NOT moral to go around pulling down advertisements for other churches…The OP asked the question and in the spirit of the Gospel, the local ekklesia here are CAF have fraternally and I think decisively, corrected the erronious thought.

As to the attitude you mention about the “protestantism is of Satan” stance…You are absolutely right. The Church does not teach this. I just posted a short reference to the Catachism on this and if you care to follow the link, you can see this expounded upon.

Naturally we as Catholics see the original Protestant movement, schism, and subsequent splintering as a work of evil, and evil that was present on both sides of the issue. But that is looking at history and not dealing with things as they currently stand. The Catachism is clear on this…
817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, … for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body … do not occur without human sin:

818 However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers…
The obvious implication from this is that we are now so far seperated from the historical specifics that led to the schism that no one - on either side - really have any direct connection with those problems and issues. The thing to do is to start again, in Christian Love to learn from each other and grow together once again…

Peace
James

 

[jpelham]

Dear jpelham.
As far as I understand the Church is made up of those who are baptised and believe that Jesus is saviour and Son of God.
… “These signs will follow those who believe in me… they will cure the sick, cast out demons etc”.
…If we call them brothers they must be our family… our covenant family through baptism, and that is the new Israel and the new Israel is the Church…

Thank you for your charitable reminder. By speaking of doctrine first here, I have put the cart before the horse.

James has underscored what is importent, and I concur wholeheartedly.

As you urge, the life of faith which we are called as Christians to share always and everywhere, begins and ends with the love of Christ.

When it is time to consider how faith has shaped the Church’s identity, see pars. 813-822. You seem to arrive intuitively at the ecumenical outlook of 817-822.

Christ’s peace be with you.

P.S. To clarify, I don’t think the flyers of other Christians should be taken down. It does seem that satan overlooks no opportunity to divide us by exploiting our weaknesses and sinful inclinations, and he found plenty to exploit on all sides in the 16th and 17th centuries.

 

[GraceDK]

Thank you for your charitable reminder. By speaking of doctrine first here, I have put the cart before the horse.

James has underscored what is importent, and I concur wholeheartedly.

As you urge, the life of faith which we are called as Christians to share always and everywhere, begins and ends with the love of Christ.

When it is time to consider how faith has shaped the Church’s identity, see pars. 813-822. You seem to arrive intuitively at the ecumenical outlook of 817-822.

Christ’s peace be with you.

P.S. To clarify, I don’t think the flyers of other Christians should be taken down. It does seem that satan overlooks no opportunity to divide us by exploiting our weaknesses and sinful inclinations, and he found plenty to exploit on all sides in the 16th and 17th centuries.

jpelham and James.



I was too lazy to look in the Catechism to quote from there myself… so thanks James.
I do wish unity… I wish that the Protestants see the riches we have and I wish that the Catholics see the riches that Protestants have.

 

[jpelham]

jpelham and James.

I was too lazy to look in the Catechism to quote from there myself… so thanks James.
I do wish unity… I wish that the Protestants see the riches we have and I wish that the Catholics see the riches that Protestants have.

A few years ago Protestant scholar Mark Noll extolled the benefits of Protestant-Catholic dialogue in the journal “First Things.” Evangelicals bring “eagerness, commitment, and an ability to negotiate in a culture of intellectual consumerism,” and Catholics a mature “life of the mind” and “centuries of reflection on the bearing of sacramentality on all existence.”

But foremost they bring themselves. Our Holy Father has spoken of this perhaps most of all.

 

[JRKH]

jpelham and James.



I was too lazy to look in the Catechism to quote from there myself… so thanks James.
I do wish unity… I wish that the Protestants see the riches we have and I wish that the Catholics see the riches that Protestants have.

One thing that I think Protestant converts, especially evangelicals bring to the Church is an eagerness and an earnestness to share the Gospel that the Church will benefit highly from.

Also, just as there are various “societies” within the Church ranging from religious orders to social clubs and everything in between, I’ve often thought that some of the protestant communions, should they ever choose to enter the church enmasse, could bring some of their own “flavor” to the Church - not in the mass of course, but in other ways and with other forms of outreach and preaching etc…

Peace
James

 

[honestquestions]

Hey everyone. My apartment building has a public bulletin board. Often there are advertisements and flyers on there for other churches. Some of these even advertise revivals and such. Since these other churches often promote false doctrine such as once saved always saved and the “prosperity gospel”, would it be moral to take them down and throw them away?

No, because they think they are right just as much as you think you are right. This is why religions fight to the death.