Is it morally permissible to cuddle with someone of the opposite sex?

[USAthrowawaaay]

Hello my lovely fellow Catholics.

This is something I’ve been wondering about. I have a gay male friend (I’m a girl) who is very affectionate. He seems to be the cuddly type. I’m just wondering, what are the moral guidelines for physical, nonromantic affection? I have cuddled with boyfriends in the past with no problems of going too far, or things getting out of hand. For whatever reason, the thought of cuddling with someone I’m not in a relationship with seems kind of wrong–but then again, if it is devoid of sexual stimulation enough to be permissible in a romantic, dating relationship, shouldn’t it be permissible as affection between friends?

Granted, I understand that this probably has potential negative emotional/social repercussions, but I’m struggling with the bigger topic of “morality of affection”, as it were. After all, merely dating someone doesn’t change the degree of permissible physicality–only marriage does that!

 

[TheologicalLeft]

No, it’s not okay. Thank you for asking.

 

[Lasting_faith]

I would say it is. My best friend when growing up was a very beautiful girl. We did never date, or yes, for three days, only kissing, but did realize we are better if we are only friends. And yes, we did cuddle, we even did sleep in the same bed once or twice. It all about your faith. If it is strong enough, you will not get to far or let things just go out of control. It might not be what many consider right, but sometimes we need to listen to God, not other people, and if you have good friend, and he happen to be the opposite sex, and you cuddle, I can’t see anything wrong in that. So remember, faith equals being in control. It might be moraly wrong in the eye of people who once more are to busy being Catholic that they have no time for being Christians.

 

[myelin]

the first thing I would say is how do you know for a fact that he is gay…and not just saying it -to get your guard down… and in what you think has nothing to do with mating advance, and then the story changes, the story that always was.

second…how do you know for a fact that if above is untrue…that he then may be a bi guy? all the evidence suggests he is a bi guy…? no? then how come the friendship has welcomed an idea to start cuddling with this guy? The open willingness to cudle is out of a suggestion which you are agreeing is mutually somewhat arrived at…so you know…he would agree…so he has suggested it to you in some way acceptance, smiles whatever approval…these are getting at properties of mating. ( special special…cuddly cuddly

to be honest I think looking at the world a girl who would hang out with a bi guy…well I have no respect for that, “nothing to do with religeon” either a girl has some demands and some idea of a solid relationship or she does not…fillers along the way are extra luggage, can add nothing but confusion, keep from meeting who fits into the perfect or at least half decent guy. DC is 3% hiv positive…many women are becoming infected by men who do not tell them. There was a convention and the women are very sick… I’m single and spoken for…if a friend of mine said they met a girl who hung out with gay or bi guys…I’d tell them flat out the facts on known hugely promiscuous behavior and to be hugely cautious knowing anyone who hung out with that scene… Its crazy for straight to mingle socially and date the gay scene, cuddle whatever…crazy, any people who do , it becomes luggage emotionally and possible checking because things happen

Now…

Cuddling is part of mating, courtship…for example if a girl cuddles with some other guy then a boyfriend whatever…thats flat out cheating, and relationship OVER. Betray.If they cheat before even a marriage and all that…they will cheat on the honey moon itself.

Cuddling can mean different to a girl. But if your telling the truth it sounds more like your trying to win the guy over. no girl cuddles with a guy without something up there sleeve.Its a suggestion…so what are you trying to suggest, the guy protects you …you and him against the world prob.

So…

something about it is bugging you if this is the whole truth.

heres what it could be, besides all possibilities…

you are leading him on and have no intention of mentally being in conformity of your temporary need for a big squeeze…anyway I bet you may have already figured this out or would anyway. So your either leading the guy on…regardless if he’s gay…bi…whatever. Or…there is a “competition” going on between the two of you thats ego-conquer related…/opinion for now only and very politely said.

 

[Carlan]

It is wrong to place yourself or someone else in the possible state of temptation . you may end up being very,very sorry. If you simply wish to give a hug of affection ok ,cuddling no ! Peace, Carlan

 

[lmelahn]

Dear USAthrowawaaay,

The answer will always be somewhat unsatisfactory, because a number of cultural factors and particular circumstances enter in.

However, I guess I could offer several general ideas:

(1) The affection should never imply the type of intimacy proper to married couples. Much less, of course, should it provide the occasion for, or lead to the marital act.

(2) I would say that couples who are seriously courting or are engaged to be married can permit themselves more intimate gestures than “casual” friends, but not so much as married couples.

I say this not because signs of affection are immoral per se, but because doing otherwise would be unfair and deceptive to the other person.

(3) In the case of a person with a strong tendency to same-sex attractions, I would suggest limiting oneself to those signs of affection proper to “casual” friends, simply because of the emotional difficulties that such persons often suffer.

What that entails concretely in each case will depend a lot on the persons involved, the culture, and so on.

I don’t know if that helps any.

God bless.

Fr. Louis Melahn, L.C.

 

[johnandrew]

Hello my lovely fellow Catholics.

This is something I’ve been wondering about. I have a gay male friend (I’m a girl) who is very affectionate. He seems to be the cuddly type. I’m just wondering, what are the moral guidelines for physical, nonromantic affection? I have cuddled with boyfriends in the past with no problems of going too far, or things getting out of hand. For whatever reason, the thought of cuddling with someone I’m not in a relationship with seems kind of wrong–but then again, if it is devoid of sexual stimulation enough to be permissible in a romantic, dating relationship, shouldn’t it be permissible as affection between friends?

Granted, I understand that this probably has potential negative emotional/social repercussions, but I’m struggling with the bigger topic of “morality of affection”, as it were. After all, merely dating someone doesn’t change the degree of permissible physicality–only marriage does that!

It is morally evil for persons of the same sex to ‘date’ to “the degree of …”

 

[Petaro]

the first thing i would say is how do you know for a fact that he is gay…and not just saying it -to get your guard down… And in what you think has nothing to do with mating advance, and then the story changes, the story that always was.

Second…how do you know for a fact that if above is untrue…that he then may be a bi guy? All the evidence suggests he is a bi guy…? No? Then how come the friendship has welcomed an idea to start cuddling with this guy? The open willingness to cudle is out of a suggestion which you are agreeing is mutually somewhat arrived at…so you know…he would agree…so he has suggested it to you in some way acceptance, smiles whatever approval…these are getting at properties of mating. ( special special…cuddly cuddly

to be honest i think looking at the world a girl who would hang out with a bi guy…well i have no respect for that, “nothing to do with religeon” either a girl has some demands and some idea of a solid relationship or she does not…fillers along the way are extra luggage, can add nothing but confusion, keep from meeting who fits into the perfect or at least half decent guy. Dc is 3% hiv positive…many women are becoming infected by men who do not tell them. There was a convention and the women are very sick… I’m single and spoken for…if a friend of mine said they met a girl who hung out with gay or bi guys…i’d tell them flat out the facts on known hugely promiscuous behavior and to be hugely cautious knowing anyone who hung out with that scene… Its crazy for straight to mingle socially and date the gay scene, cuddle whatever…crazy, any people who do , it becomes luggage emotionally and possible checking because things happen

now…

Cuddling is part of mating, courtship…for example if a girl cuddles with some other guy then a boyfriend whatever…thats flat out cheating, and relationship over. Betray.if they cheat before even a marriage and all that…they will cheat on the honey moon itself.

Cuddling can mean different to a girl. But if your telling the truth it sounds more like your trying to win the guy over. No girl cuddles with a guy without something up there sleeve.its a suggestion…so what are you trying to suggest, the guy protects you …you and him against the world prob.

So…

Something about it is bugging you if this is the whole truth.

Heres what it could be, besides all possibilities…

You are leading him on and have no intention of mentally being in conformity of your temporary need for a big squeeze…anyway i bet you may have already figured this out or would anyway. So your either leading the guy on…regardless if he’s gay…bi…whatever. Or…there is a “competition” going on between the two of you thats ego-conquer related…/opinion for now only and very politely said.

wise beyond your years no matter how old you are!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

to be honest I think looking at the world a girl who would hang out with a bi guy…well I have no respect for that, “nothing to do with religeon” either a girl has some demands and some idea of a solid relationship or she does not…

Can you clarify this? It seems that you’re making a lot of assumptions about bisexual men. Why would you assume that the OP is in a “relationship” with this guy? As a man who is attracted to both women and men, I’m just kind of at a loss here.

I don’t think it’s clear from the OP that this man is looking for sex. That doesn’t mean cuddling is a good idea, of course.

 

[jilly4ski]

I would put it like this. Do you “cuddle” with your girl friends? I am guessing no. A quick peck on the check or a hug, maybe some extended shoulder holding when they are going though a rough time. Therefore I would posit that “cuddling” is an inappropriate behavior for a girl and a gay friend. It shows too much intimacy for the level of a friendship.

 

[Catholic80]

I would put it like this. Do you “cuddle” with your girl friends? I am guessing no. A quick peck on the check or a hug, maybe some extended shoulder holding when they are going though a rough time. Therefore I would posit that “cuddling” is an inappropriate behavior for a girl and a gay friend. It shows too much intimacy for the level of a friendship.

I agree.

While reading the other posts, I was surprised no one else mentioned that two girls cuddling would be inappropriate as well.

Cuddling is an act reserved for family members and for marital relationships. It definitely is showing too much intimacy to cuddle with anyone other than one’s spouse or soon to be spouse… strait or gay, male or female.

 

[USAthrowawaaay]

I would put it like this. Do you “cuddle” with your girl friends? I am guessing no. A quick peck on the check or a hug, maybe some extended shoulder holding when they are going though a rough time. Therefore I would posit that “cuddling” is an inappropriate behavior for a girl and a gay friend. It shows too much intimacy for the level of a friendship.

While reading the other posts, I was surprised no one else mentioned that two girls cuddling would be inappropriate as well.

Cuddling is an act reserved for family members and for marital relationships. It definitely is showing too much intimacy to cuddle with anyone other than one’s spouse or soon to be spouse… strait or gay, male or female.

I have cuddled with girl friends before, along with other nonsexual forms of affection–holding hands, pecking cheeks, etc. I think that affection among friends is a very natural, human desire, and that it is only cultural standards that dictate how we allow ourselves to express it. In most European countries, this kind of friendly affection is completely normal. Friends of the same sex and of opposite sexes will walk together holding hands, kiss hello and goodbye. I remember meeting a Spanish woman a few years ago who kissed me goodbye the first time we met! My American self had never seen that before.

I don’t see why cuddling would be okay among family members and not friends. Many friendships are far deeper and more intimate than relationships between blood relations.

Since I made the post last night and read the responses, I have been thinking about the issue more, and really it seems like an argument from culture. Can something be sinful solely for cultural reasons? I am inclined to think that it’s possible.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses–hope I don’t come across as too combative. I’m trying to approach the issue from all angles.

 

[thewanderer]

I would put it like this. Do you “cuddle” with your girl friends? I am guessing no. A quick peck on the check or a hug, maybe some extended shoulder holding when they are going though a rough time. Therefore I would posit that “cuddling” is an inappropriate behavior for a girl and a gay friend. It shows too much intimacy for the level of a friendship.

Funny thing is, I actually do with my sister, the reason why? She is a super physically affectionate person. She will come up to me from behind and hug me and wrap her arms around me and just stand like that at any random time for no real reason. Sometimes people are just like that. Sometimes cuddling is nothing more than a sign of friendly affection. Its up to the OP to determine whether or not that is true in this case, but if it is then there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[thewanderer]

I agree.

While reading the other posts, I was surprised no one else mentioned that two girls cuddling would be inappropriate as well.

Cuddling is an act reserved for family members and for marital relationships. It definitely is showing too much intimacy to cuddle with anyone other than one’s spouse or soon to be spouse… strait or gay, male or female.

I just noticed this as well. The fact that my sister is family doesn’t have anything to do with it. Why in the world would it be innapropriate to cuddle with another girl who is not family? I truly don’t see why that would be at all a problem. Its a sign of affection. It is not romantic or sexual. I really don’t see the problem or why anyone would arbitrarily allow it only between family members.

 

[jilly4ski]

Since I made the post last night and read the responses, I have been thinking about the issue more, and really it seems like an argument from culture. Can something be sinful solely for cultural reasons? I am inclined to think that it’s possible.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses–hope I don’t come across as too combative. I’m trying to approach the issue from all angles.

Actually things can be sinful based on cultural reasons. One way, is the sin of scandal. By you engaging in a action that looks like a sin, based on the culture and society you are in, leads others to say, hey that Christian/Catholic girl is doing that so I can do that. This is the reason co-habitation (even with separate rooms) is a sin. Also the reason why sleeping with someone of the opposite sex in the same bed, even while not engaging in sexual behavior is a sin. (That and it is placing one self in a near occasion of sin, but you claim this is not an issue with your case).

I would posit that you are both looking for something in the “cuddling” that is not appropriate for a friendship. Protection, safety, intimacy (far greater than a friendship allows for), physical touch, control, someone to take care of etc.

Like I said a peck on the check, a hug, or even extended should holding when your friends are going through a hard time, is appropriate. Heck, friends can link arms and skip down the sidewalk. But you are telling me you routinely hold your girlfriends hands? Or that you cuddle with them? When and in what context do you do this, you just stroll through the mall holding hands with your friends? I would also suggest that “cuddling” is a lot more intimate that holding hands. I hold my children’s hands all the time, but that is a lot less intimate than cuddling with them. Maybe you two can stick to holding hands then, since you think that is an appropriate action for friends of the opposite sex. But I am guessing that holding hands does not fulfill whatever you two are looking for.

 

[thewanderer]

Actually things can be sinful based on cultural reasons. One way, is the sin of scandal. By you engaging in a action that looks like a sin, based on the culture and society you are in, leads others to say, hey that Christian/Catholic girl is doing that so I can do that. This is the reason co-habitation (even with separate rooms) -]is/-]can be a sin. Also the reason why sleeping with someone of the opposite sex in the same bed, even while not engaging in sexual behavior is a sin. (That and it is placing one self in a near occasion of sin, but you claim this is not an issue with your case).

I would posit that you are both looking for something in the “cuddling” that is not appropriate for a friendship. Protection, safety, intimacy (far greater than a friendship allows for), physical touch, control, someone to take care of etc.

This is a bit of an assumption. Beyond that, what level of intiamacy do you believe is too much for friendship? Obviously anything romantic or sexual is not ok, but that is because of the kind of intimacy, not the degree. And what in the world is wrong with getting a feeling of safety or protection from a friend? Or wanting to help take care of them? Or getting ones needs for physical affection (which we all have, some people to a greater extent than others) met? Why would any of those be wrong from a friend?

Like I said a peck on the check, a hug, or even extended should holding when your friends are going through a hard time, is appropriate. Heck, friends can link arms and skip down the sidewalk. But you are telling me you routinely hold your girlfriends hands? Or that you cuddle with them? When and in what context do you do this, you just stroll through the mall holding hands with your friends? I would also suggest that “cuddling” is a lot more intimate that holding hands. I hold my children’s hands all the time, but that is a lot less intimate than cuddling with them. Maybe you two can stick to holding hands then, since you think that is an appropriate action for friends of the opposite sex. But I am guessing that holding hands does not fulfill whatever you two are looking for.

What do you define as cuddling? Maybe that is the key question here. Honestly, my sister will just come up from behind, while I’m talking to other people, and wrap her arms around me, just standing there cuddled up close behind me. I’ll keep talking, but I’ll hold on to her hands, maybe sway a bit with her there or some such thing. or I’ll be sitting down and she;ll come over and sit on my lap and grab my hands and put them around her, etc etc. In public, with other people around. And it is not at all a problem, and I really don’t see how it could be wrong for friends just because they are not family. That is a completely arbitrary cut-off point.

 

[USAthrowawaaay]

Actually things can be sinful based on cultural reasons. One way, is the sin of scandal. By you engaging in a action that looks like a sin, based on the culture and society you are in, leads others to say, hey that Christian/Catholic girl is doing that so I can do that. This is the reason co-habitation (even with separate rooms) is a sin. Also the reason why sleeping with someone of the opposite sex in the same bed, even while not engaging in sexual behavior is a sin. (That and it is placing one self in a near occasion of sin, but you claim this is not an issue with your case).

I would posit that you are both looking for something in the “cuddling” that is not appropriate for a friendship. Protection, safety, intimacy (far greater than a friendship allows for), physical touch, control, someone to take care of etc.

Like I said a peck on the check, a hug, or even extended should holding when your friends are going through a hard time, is appropriate. Heck, friends can link arms and skip down the sidewalk. But you are telling me you routinely hold your girlfriends hands? Or that you cuddle with them? When and in what context do you do this, you just stroll through the mall holding hands with your friends? I would also suggest that “cuddling” is a lot more intimate that holding hands. I hold my children’s hands all the time, but that is a lot less intimate than cuddling with them. Maybe you two can stick to holding hands then, since you think that is an appropriate action for friends of the opposite sex. But I am guessing that holding hands does not fulfill whatever you two are looking for.

Well, I would like to make note that I have not engaged in ANY kind of affection with this particular guy. No hand holding or cuddling or anything. So I’m not coming at this from the angle of trying to justify my actions. I am having a little bit of cognitive dissonance over what I think should logically be the case (platonic affection is not only acceptable, but a wonderful thing), vs. the resistance that I see culturally and have adopted somewhat myself.

I personally think it seriously discredits the beauty and depth that friendship can exhibit to say that there is a limit to how intimate we ought to be with friends. What if you’re single, with no family support? Are you not supposed to have deep relationships? Looking back to the classical era, friendship among mentor and student was lauded as a highest good, the most perfect of relationships. This is a bit different than my particular case, of course, but I think it speaks to the nature of friendship, and that, really, modern America is kind of the oddball in our views on it.

The more I think about it, the more I mourn the fact that ALL physical touch has been so hypersexualized by media and culture. I think this is especially true among men. If two guys want to hug, they almost always preface it with an obligatory “no homo”. For a hug!! If you look at old photos of men together, they are often lounging on one another, sitting close together, etc.

As for my girlfriends. Affection is not a regular thing, but it’s certainly something I enjoy. I used to hold hands with friends or walk with arms around each other in the halls at school, or sit on each other while hanging out, both in public and at home.

 

[SighGuy]

USA,

Purely based on opinion, this is what I say:

Observe the situation coolly. Does it have the potential to cause mixed feelings? I’ve cuddled with girls before, when I was younger, where I thought that it meant something it didn’t. Later in life I’ve cuddled with girls before where I understood more fully that it had no implication of a romantic bond at all.

Sometimes, even though we don’t realize or understand why, something can have bad impacts. This is why others don’t understand why it is a sin to have premarital sex.

Cuddling, as far as I’m aware, is not forbade by the Church.
I see nothing wrong with it; but, like many other things, it can lead us into trouble.
“If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off.”
Is the right hand wicked? No. But if it permits wickedness, cut it off. Is cuddling wicked? No. But if you fear that it will lead you into a problem… cut it off.

 

[myelin]

Where is this going? I’m confused.

The issue from the outset, whether or not cuddling is wrong fused in with a homosexual friend who is cuddly -is most confusing. * Together with a very very good ability to articulate and showing excellent problem solving abilities…And OP you also mentioned you basically have no temptation cuddling but…now there is an issue …with a gay guy.

And now you haven’t even held hands or anything and we shift onto the culture and cuddle idea.

Whats going on here?

A talk about getting male-male and female-female mating things like holding hands and kissing in public an everyday thing… because culture can show no problem?

Guys score a goal…hug…right?

Girls jump upand down squeeling OMG OMG and hug all the time

so what?

we already have a LOGICALLY permissible culture -showing reasonable emotional expression.

everybody knows that.

so what is the initiative with the gay thing? to twist society around and eliminate people who don’t want to see same sex stuff in public in front of their children and make it ok?

what about the "retaliating kiss in… at the chicken place that went nation wide?

gay people know that many people do not approve of seeing same sex stuff in public

some malls have said no.

we know there is a movement…is this part of the movement?

Further.

When read the OP, I disregarded the vibes I’m getting now and said hey…answer the question as if one of your three sisters…OK…

so I am sincere …but don’t play with my head…ok?

I stand behind my entry taking emotional and health in front of peoples temporary needs.

Whats more import…baby sitting the gay feelings or telling people how it is who are asking( if its true)

People can do what they like…and can become what there friends are in different ways.

Plus…its a jungle. I’m not going to get into CDC, studies , logic, behav…drugs…facts…know why?

because once a solid point is made the discussion in my experience always always turns rude and foul

Anyway…you all went off topic because there really is no topic I fear other then getting male-male…female-female…lovy dovy stuff out in the malls and streets.

If its going to be a Spiritual forum with leans to manipulate and brainwash guess what…it will never work with me. If somebody and its been asked…wants me to discuss the opinion re Bi guy’s…that would be another thread…and I will being everything available on line if it was being wrongly represented…everything…cops, hosp stats…CDC…health care workers drug use,…everything.

 

[thewanderer]

Where is this going? I’m confused.

The issue from the outset, whether or not cuddling is wrong fused in with a homosexual friend who is cuddly -is most confusing. * Together with a very very good ability to articulate and showing excellent problem solving abilities…And OP you also mentioned you basically have no temptation cuddling but…now there is an issue …with a gay guy.

And now you haven’t even held hands or anything and we shift onto the culture and cuddle idea.

Whats going on here?

A talk about getting male-male and female-female mating things like holding hands and kissing in public OK because culture can show no problem?

Guys score a goal…hug…right?

Girls jump upand down squeeling OMG OMG and hug all the time

so what?

we already have a LOGICALLY permissible culture -showing reasonable emotional expression.

everybody knows that.

so what is the initiative with the gay thing? to twist society around and eliminate people who don’t want to see same sex stuff in public in front of their children and make it ok?

what about the "retaliating kiss in… at the chicken place that went nation wide?

gay people know that many people do not approve of seeing same sex stuff with chidren ect

some malls have said no.

we know there is a movement…is this part of the movement?

Further.

When read the OP, I disregarded the vibes I’m getting now and said hey…answer the question as if one of your three sisters…OK…

so I am sincere …but don’t play with my head…ok?

I stand behind my entry taking emotional and health in front of peoples temporary needs.

Whats more import…baby sitting the gay feelings or telling people how it is who are asking( if its true)

People can do what they like…and can become what there friends are in different ways.

Plus…its a jungle. I’m not going to get into CDC, studies , logic, behav…drugs…facts…know why?

because once a solid point is made the discussion in my experience always always turns rude and foul

Anyway…you all went off topic because there really is no topic I fear other then getting male-male…female-female…lovy dovy stuff out in the malls and streets.

If its going to be a Spiritual forum with leans to manipulate and brainwash guess what…it will never work with me.