Is it necessary to confess one's mortal sins in number?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PermanentMarker
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PermanentMarker

Guest
I was admonished by my confessor because I confessed my mortal sins and how many times committed them. Any Catholic with a modicum of religious education that one is supposed to confess their mortal sins in kind and number, but the priest said that it was a “pre-Vatican II” custom that is no longer necessary and even discouraged.

Can anyone help me find post-Vatican II authoritative documents that might set my confessor straight?
 
Canon 988: “A member of the Christian faithful is obliged to confess in kind and number all grave sins committed after baptism and not yet remitted directly through the keys of the Church nor acknowledged in individual confession, of which the person has knowledge after diligent examination of conscience.”

This is from the 1983 Code of Canon Law, promulgated eighteen years after the Second Vatican Council.
 
Canon 988: “A member of the Christian faithful is obliged to confess in kind and number all grave sins committed after baptism and not yet remitted directly through the keys of the Church nor acknowledged in individual confession, of which the person has knowledge after diligent examination of conscience.”

This is from the 1983 Code of Canon Law, promulgated eighteen years after the Second Vatican Council.
Thanks. I will forward it to him, though I may wait a bit so that I can think of a way I can do it in a friendly manner.
 
Simply do not mention the number to that confessor. It is not a sin to confess only the kind, sometimes a little humility goes a long way.
 
Simply do not mention the number to that confessor. It is not a sin to confess only the kind, sometimes a little humility goes a long way.
Well, no. The CIC says we must confess in kind and number, and so we must do so. Humility has nothing to do with it.
 
It is not humility to go along with bad advice that contradicts a higher authority, even if the advice is given in good faith.
 
Simply do not mention the number to that confessor. It is not a sin to confess only the kind, sometimes a little humility goes a long way.
Yes it is. It’s a grave sin. If you don’t confess the number of times you committed a mortal sin it’s considered concealing a (or a number) mortal sin in Confession and it invalidates absolution.

Also, by stating the number of times a sin is committed, it actually causes the penitent to grow in humility.

OP: Keep in mind that the seal of Confession prohibits the priest from discussing your Confession outside the Confessional. If it happens again, you can show it to him in Confession. I had this issue once when I was away from my normal confessor for an extended period of time. He advised to tell the priest that it’s required to confess mortal sins in kind, number, and circumstances if necessary, and if the priest still won’t hear it, confess as Canon law requires it. I was then advised to find a different priest to confess to.

It scares me to think how many people (especially priests) are so poorly catechized on how to go to Confession. :eek:

Kyrie Eleison
Christe Eleison
Kyrie Eleison
 
Hum, when young we were taught to say the number of times, but I don’t do that anymore.
I guess if one goes to confession once a week you can do it. 🙂
 
Hum, when young we were taught to say the number of times, but I don’t do that anymore.
I guess if one goes to confession once a week you can do it. 🙂
If you’re confessing Mortal sins, you have to! This isn’t a matter of personal choice. This is what Canon law states!
 
You may understand when you get older. If one has committed a mortal sin and needs to go to confession, how many mortal sins can one commit??? If your living in a state of mortal sin, then you would say I’m living in a state of mortal sin and for how long. So I don’t get the numbering issue.🙂

I mean when I was young and sassed my Mom I probably made up, well I sassed my Mom 3 times.

You can keep a list if you want, I just don’t understand how they can be numbered.🙂
 
I was admonished by my confessor because I confessed my mortal sins and how many times committed them. Any Catholic with a modicum of religious education that one is supposed to confess their mortal sins in kind and number, but the priest said that it was a “pre-Vatican II” custom that is no longer necessary and even discouraged.

Can anyone help me find post-Vatican II authoritative documents that might set my confessor straight?
Absolutely false.

Not only is it in Canon Law…but Pope John Paul II’s document on Confession…and various other documents from the Holy See including from Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

( One is obliged to do so…though there can be “exceptions” at times).

Maybe he meant in terms of venial sins?..for one is not obliged to even confess such and they can be confessed in a rather general way without any numbers.

If he clearly meant mortal sins --they I would consider contacting the Bishop.
 
You may understand when you get older. If one has committed a mortal sin and needs to go to confession, how many mortal sins can one commit??? If your living in a state of mortal sin, then you would say I’m living in a state of mortal sin and for how long. So I don’t get the numbering issue.🙂

I mean when I was young and sassed my Mom I probably made up, well I sassed my Mom 3 times.

You can keep a list if you want, I just don’t understand how they can be numbered.🙂
One is obliged to confess all mortal sins in number and kind.

Adultery 3x
Missed Sunday Mass (without excusing reason) 2x
Lustful thoughts 6x
Murder 2x

etc.

The Church is very clear on this. It is an obligation even of divine nature…

There can at times be exceptions (like one cannot remember)…and one may need to approximate according to ones knowledge…but such is our obligation.
 
Absolutely false.

Not only is it in Canon Law…but Pope John Paul II’s document on Confession…and various other documents from the Holy See including from Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

( One is obliged to do so…though there can be “exceptions” at times).

Maybe he meant in terms of venial sins?..for one is not obliged to even confess such and they can be confessed in a rather general way without any numbers.

If he clearly meant mortal sins --then I would consider contacting the Bishop.
 
Adultery 3x
Missed Sunday Mass (without excusing reason) 2x
Lustful thoughts 6x
Murder 2x

Well you can keep a list if you want, I would hope that is not your list above, as anyone with that list is surely in need of confession.:eek:
 
Absolutely false.

Not only is it in Canon Law…but Pope John Paul II’s document on Confession…and various other documents from the Holy See including from Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

( One is obliged to do so…though there can be “exceptions” at times).

Maybe he meant in terms of venial sins?..for one is not obliged to even confess such and they can be confessed in a rather general way without any numbers.

If he clearly meant mortal sins --they I would consider contacting the Bishop.
[edited]

Canon Law is one thing. Canon Law says lots of things which traditional priests today need sometimes to subordinate to the pastoral reality of administering the sacraments. The fact is that the most important elements, on the penitent’s part, in this sacrament, are these:

~genuine understanding of the gravity of each serious sin committed
~genuine sorrow for those sins
~sincere intent to avoid them in the future, to make amends for those wrongs committed.
~full disclosure of the every known serious sin committed. That would include not deliberately hiding a repetition of the same sin, and certainly not lying if the priest asks you if this is once or more than once.

Yes, it’s “important” to relate the “number” of mortal sins, but more so as those sins are repetitious, and/or differ in their impact relative to the number of occasions. (Thus, perjury repeated, murder repeated, abortion repeated, theft repeated: this is important to report as a repetition – even generally, such as “several.”)

However, here’s what’s more important, pastorally – in practice:

The priest cares, and should care, much more about the quality of repentance and the oral acknowledgement about the severity of each reported sin, than about the total tally of each of those sins. The heart of the sacrament is repentence. A good confessor is not a technician, and Our Lord is not an accountant, but a merciful judge to those who express sincere sorrow.

My confessor for the last several years has been an ultra-traditional priest, faithful meticulously to his office. I have gone to him expressly because he has been so thorough at each confession, making sure no stone is left unturned. Confession is not a “chat” to him, and he is pre-V2 oriented. Yet at no time has he demanded “number of times.” Why? Because the above essential elements are there. He wants much more to hear the acknowledgement in my voice, than to have me repeat my sins casually, but be exact as to their number.

“Contacting the Bishop” is not an appropriate response, i.m.o. Why? Not because every Bishop doesn’t care about Canon Law, but because every bishop has been a priest and understands the pastoral nature of the sacrament. Bishops do not step in and make remote judgments on whether a confession they have not heard has been administered properly.

Confession is extremely personal. That means that if you do not like how it’s being administered, don’t go to that confessor. Go to a different one. But it should be on account of whether the relationship is working for you or not working. If you cannot develop a rapport with your confessor, or if you feel you cannot trust him because he is not being “technical” enough for your tastes, it is your privilege to seek a different confessor. Going to the bishop will be of extremely little help.
 
Absolutely false.

Not only is it in Canon Law…but Pope John Paul II’s document on Confession…and various other documents from the Holy See including from Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

( One is obliged to do so…though there can be “exceptions” at times).

Maybe he meant in terms of venial sins?..for one is not obliged to even confess such and they can be confessed in a rather general way without any numbers.

If he clearly meant mortal sins --they I would consider contacting the Bishop.
If a Priest is telling penitents that the Church (and this is a Divine requirement) does not require one to confess ones mortal sins in number and kind (there can be exceptions…and there may be a need to “approximate” and of course honest forgetfulness happens…we are not Mr. Spock–not referring to such) …then consider contacting his Bishop.
 
Gee, I can do that too, Bookcat. (Repeat myself.) 😉
You can’t be serious. Contact the Bishop? Please. Here are the facts, folks:

Canon Law is one thing. Canon Law says lots of things which traditional priests today need sometimes to subordinate to the pastoral reality of administering the sacraments. The fact is that the most important elements, on the penitent’s part, in this sacrament, are these:

~genuine understanding of the gravity of each serious sin committed
~genuine sorrow for those sins
~sincere intent to avoid them in the future, to make amends for those wrongs committed.
~full disclosure of the every known serious sin committed. That would include not deliberately hiding a repetition of the same sin, and certainly not lying if the priest asks you if this is once or more than once.

Yes, it’s “important” to relate the “number” of mortal sins, but more so as those sins are repetitious, and/or differ in their impact relative to the number of occasions. (Thus, perjury repeated, murder repeated, abortion repeated, theft repeated: this is important to report as a repetition – even generally, such as “several.”)

However, here’s what’s more important, pastorally – in practice:

The priest cares, and should care, much more about the quality of repentance and the oral acknowledgement about the severity of each reported sin, than about the total tally of each of those sins. The heart of the sacrament is repentence. A good confessor is not a technician, and Our Lord is not an accountant, but a merciful judge to those who express sincere sorrow.

My confessor for the last several years has been an ultra-traditional priest, faithful meticulously to his office. I have gone to him expressly because he has been so thorough at each confession, making sure no stone is left unturned. Confession is not a “chat” to him, and he is pre-V2 oriented. Yet at no time has he demanded “number of times.” Why? Because the above essential elements are there. He wants much more to hear the acknowledgement in my voice, than to have me repeat my sins casually, but be exact as to their number.

“Contacting the Bishop” is not an appropriate response, i.m.o. Why? Not because every Bishop doesn’t care about Canon Law, but because every bishop has been a priest and understands the pastoral nature of the sacrament. Bishops do not step in and make remote judgments on whether a confession they have not heard has been administered properly.

Confession is extremely personal. That means that if you do not like how it’s being administered, don’t go to that confessor. Go to a different one. But it should be on account of whether the relationship is working for you or not working. If you cannot develop a rapport with your confessor, or if you feel you cannot trust him because he is not being “technical” enough for your tastes, it is your privilege to seek a different confessor. Going to the bishop will be of extremely little help.
👍
(and I can congratulate myself at the end, too. ;))
 
If he clearly meant mortal sins --they I would consider contacting the Bishop.
I would not recommend contacting the Bishop over a matter regarding confession (unless it involves solicitation). The reason is that its impossible for the priest to defend himself. While a priest may be in error, its not exactly fair to accuse him in a situation where he can’t answer for himself.
 
I would not recommend contacting the Bishop over a matter regarding confession (unless it involves solicitation). The reason is that its impossible for the priest to defend himself. While a priest may be in error, its not exactly fair to accuse him in a situation where he can’t answer for himself.
This may actually be the very kind of thing (aside from solicitation) to contact the Bishop personally over in regards to this sacrament . Yes I understand that a Priest cannot “defend himself” in terms of discussing the particular confession. And of course first off one can confront (with charity and respect) the Priest oneself (as the person here said they were going to do). The Holy See has been very clear on the need to “eliminate” these sorts of abuses. The Bishop can simply inquire with the Priest-- do you understand that all mortal sins are to be confessed in number and kind? Will you follow this practice? And tell him that the contrary idea is an error that needs to be corrected.

(If one is considering such --one could contact for example Catholic Answers and get their advice as well…they can advise in a more “live” conversational way…)
 
This may actually be the very kind of thing (aside from solicitation) to contact the Bishop personally over in regards to this sacrament . Yes I understand that a Priest cannot “defend himself” in terms of discussing the particular confession. And of course first off one can confront (with charity and respect) the Priest oneself (as the person here said they were going to do). The Holy See has been very clear on the need to “eliminate” these sorts of abuses. The Bishop can simply inquire with the Priest-- do you understand that all mortal sins are to be confessed in number and kind? Will you follow this practice? And tell him that the contrary idea is an error that needs to be corrected.

(If one is considering such --one could contact for example Catholic Answers and get their advice as well…they can advise in a more “live” conversational way…)
I understand that “report it to the bishop” is kind of a mantra in this forum, but let’s not get carried away here. The absolution is still valid, the priest is in error, and life goes on…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top