Is it no longer appropriate to genuflect to bishops?

[DL82]

I always remember when I was on my way out of the cathedral at the Chrism Mass before my confirmation, there was a whole line of people shaking hands with the Archbishop - I think there may have been one other person beside myself who made some movement towards genuflecting. I had always thought that the correct protocol was to kiss his hand (or the ring on his finger) and genuflect on the left knee, but apparently this isn’t done anymore.

My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing? Does it vary from bishop to bishop, or from diocese to diocese? I’m aware of some African and Filipino Catholics who would even kiss the hands of their priests! It just seems a shame that this respect for the leaders of the Church has disappeared.

 

[NPC]

I always remember when I was on my way out of the cathedral at the Chrism Mass before my confirmation, there was a whole line of people shaking hands with the Archbishop - I think there may have been one other person beside myself who made some movement towards genuflecting. I had always thought that the correct protocol was to kiss his hand (or the ring on his finger) and genuflect on the left knee, but apparently this isn’t done anymore.

My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing? Does it vary from bishop to bishop, or from diocese to diocese? I’m aware of some African and Filipino Catholics who would even kiss the hands of their priests! It just seems a shame that this respect for the leaders of the Church has disappeared.

You know, it wasn’t all that long ago in Ireland that people would genuflect if a priest passed them on the street - on the off-chance that he might be carrying the Blessed Sacrament. How universal that practice was, I don’t know - as we have found out in recent months, in many ways the Irish Church was a law unto itself for too long: I don’t think even priests of more “traditional” orders (or those celebrating the E.F.) would expect one to genuflect on the street.

As to the question of bishops - I think it varies from diocese to diocese. I know with my own bishop, he would be very embarrassed to have people genuflect and kiss his hand/ring - in fact, a few months ago when he and the other Irish bishops met the Holy Father in Rome, the Irish newspapers made fun of him for kissing the Pope’s ring. The difference is that the press spun the idea that my bishop was doing this for pomp and ceremony, whereas (because he doesn’t really “do” pomp and ceremony) those who know him knew that he kissed the Pope’s ring out of respect for the office and Benedict XVI’s position as successor of Peter.

Of course, that leads to the question of one’s motivation for genuflecting or kissing the bishop’s ring. One isn’t kissing the ring because X is wearing it; it’s because a successor of the Apostles is wearing it. However, I think even if one is motivated by this reason - as they should be, they should do what is customary in the diocese. Similarly, with kissing the hand of the priest - which one would see occasionally with priests who celebrate the Extraordinary Form - if one is moved to do so, it is because those hands are consecrated hands.

 

[VetA]

I always remember when I was on my way out of the cathedral at the Chrism Mass before my confirmation, there was a whole line of people shaking hands with the Archbishop - I think there may have been one other person beside myself who made some movement towards genuflecting. I had always thought that the correct protocol was to kiss his hand (or the ring on his finger) and genuflect on the left knee, but apparently this isn’t done anymore.

My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing? Does it vary from bishop to bishop, or from diocese to diocese? I’m aware of some African and Filipino Catholics who would even kiss the hands of their priests! It just seems a shame that this respect for the leaders of the Church has disappeared.

i believe it has just fallen out of practice, but whenever i see a bishop i at least kiss the ring on his hand… it is a sign of respect since they are the successors to the apostles, and have not been corrected so i will do it as that sign of respect.

 

[Catholicben]

I might be mis-reading your original message, but maybe the “genuflection” was just an easy way to get low to kiss his ring…​

On another note, I would like to start kissing my Bishop’s ring when I see him (which is quite frequently, we’re at the cathedral), but I always forget!

 

[choy]

I always remember when I was on my way out of the cathedral at the Chrism Mass before my confirmation, there was a whole line of people shaking hands with the Archbishop - I think there may have been one other person beside myself who made some movement towards genuflecting. I had always thought that the correct protocol was to kiss his hand (or the ring on his finger) and genuflect on the left knee, but apparently this isn’t done anymore.

My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing? Does it vary from bishop to bishop, or from diocese to diocese? I’m aware of some African and Filipino Catholics who would even kiss the hands of their priests! It just seems a shame that this respect for the leaders of the Church has disappeared.

are you sure the Filipinos kiss the hand of the bishop?

there is a tradition in the Philippines called “mano” (spanish for hand) where one takes the hand of an elder (parent, uncle/aunt, grand parent, priest, bishop) and then the person bows and the back of the hand is touched on the bowing person’s forehead. this is a sign of respect for the elder, as well as a sign of blessing

 

[DL82]

are you sure the Filipinos kiss the hand of the bishop?

there is a tradition in the Philippines called “mano” (spanish for hand) where one takes the hand of an elder (parent, uncle/aunt, grand parent, priest, bishop) and then the person bows and the back of the hand is touched on the bowing person’s forehead. this is a sign of respect for the elder, as well as a sign of blessing

Maybe it’s that rather than a kiss that I’ve seen.

 

[choy]

i’ve always wanted to do that with our priests here in Canada but i’m afraid that they might not appreciate the cultural significance of it, unless they’re very familiar with Filipino culture. but once we had a guest Filipino priest, so after the Mass has ended and he was at the foyer, i approached and made “Mano”

 

[damooster]

My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing?

Ugh!

I’m not aiming this one at you, DL82, but I am so sick and tired of hearing the terms “did this change after Vatican II,” “that was done before Vatican II,” and “(that was changed) in the spirit of Vatican II.” Again, I’m not going after you DL82 because you’ve probably been taught this/these phrase(s) from people who want to change the Church and use the Second Vatican Council as the ammo for doing so. If I were you, I’d get the two volume set of Vatican II Council documents prepared by Fr. Flannery. I have them both and read them every night.

You can find them at Amazon here.

To answer your question: no, genuflecting on your left knee and kissing the ring of a bishop did not stop after Vatican II. Many people simply don’t know that this is the proper thing to do, so maybe seeing you do it will teach them.

Oh, and I can affirm what Choy said about “mano.” My father is Filipino and I was raised to do this with my elders as well.

 

[Paganus]

It is still appropriate to kiss a bishop’s ring. You may also kiss the consecrated hands of any priest. I would not genuflect to a bishop - I only kneel to Christ.

 

[Redbaron998]

Ive only ever seen one bishop (not many round here) and I just shook his hand. This was when I was in RCIA so didnt know what to do about anything.

Still today it kinda depends, if he is walking down the street id probably say hi and shake his hand and ask him to dinner (That would be awesome to get to invite a Bishop over and talk about things)

If he was in full clerical garb and during a formal cermony I might do something more, but this is America and its really just not the custome to bow to anyone.

Now it the Holy Father came around I would for sure.

 

[VetA]

Ive only ever seen one bishop (not many round here) and I just shook his hand. This was when I was in RCIA so didnt know what to do about anything.

Still today it kinda depends, if he is walking down the street id probably say hi and shake his hand and ask him to dinner (That would be awesome to get to invite a Bishop over and talk about things)

If he was in full clerical garb and during a formal cermony I might do something more, but this is America and its really just not the custome to bow to anyone.

Now it the Holy Father came around I would for sure.

so if the culture says its ok to murder people as long as you say sorry afterward itd be ok too right?

yes the example is a bit extreem but seriously the culture of the church should out weigh the practices of a country

 

[choy]

so if the culture says its ok to murder people as long as you say sorry afterward itd be ok too right?

yes the example is a bit extreem but seriously the culture of the church should out weigh the practices of a country

thats not how they did it in the first century. every Particular Church established in the past took practices from the country where they were founded. i guess most Roman Catholics would lose track of this because when the Western European powers colonized most of the world, they spread Roman Catholicism. but the Eastern Churches have their own cultures intact until today.

 

[WetCatechumen]

It is still appropriate to kiss a bishop’s ring. You may also kiss the consecrated hands of any priest. I would not genuflect to a bishop - I only kneel to Christ.

I personally like the practice of kissing the consecrated hands. I did it to one older priest (80 or so), and he freaked out. Luckily, Eastern priests, who have that happen almost every day, do not find the practice odd.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…My question is, is this a practice that has been changed in some official way since Vatican II, or is it just something that people have stopped doing …

From the 21 June 1968 Instruction Pontificalis ritus:
“D. THINGS TO BE ELIMINATED
25. The bishop is no longer greeted by a genuflection but by a bow. In carrying out their service the ministers stand rather than kneel before him, unless kneeling is more practical.”
(Documents on the Liturgy 1963-1979, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1982, ISBN 0-8146-1281-4, page 1395.)

From the 1985 Ceremonial of Bishops “69 A genuflection, made by bending only the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and is therefore reserved for the blessed sacrament, whether exposed or reserved in the tabernacle, and for the holy cross from the time of solemn adoration in the liturgical celebration of Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.” (Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 36.)

 

[damooster]

From the 21 June 1968 Instruction Pontificalis ritus:
“D. THINGS TO BE ELIMINATED
25. The bishop is no longer greeted by a genuflection but by a bow. In carrying out their service the ministers stand rather than kneel before him, unless kneeling is more practical.”
(Documents on the Liturgy 1963-1979, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1982, ISBN 0-8146-1281-4, page 1395.)

You should read that whole document. It involves changes to the way Mass is celebrated by a bishop; it did not abrogate the way a bishop is greeted outside of Mass. The snippet you quoted refers to when all the clergy genuflected towards the bishop during liturgical celebrations.

You can read it here.

From the 1985 Ceremonial of Bishops “69 A genuflection, made by bending only the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and is therefore reserved for the blessed sacrament, whether exposed or reserved in the tabernacle, and for the holy cross from the time of solemn adoration in the liturgical celebration of Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.” (Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 36.)

Genuflection on the right knee is reserved for the Blessed Sacrament. Genuflections with the left knee, however, are made to the Pope and bishops who have authority over you.

 

[dilworth94]

From what I have experienced, genuflecting towards a bishop is appropriate. And I totally agree with it! I think it is quite important that we keep as much tradition in the church as possible. In this day-in-age, with such a modern society, tradition is being thrown out the window.

I also read down the posts that people genuflect towards their priest. Funny thing is, as the procession was coming up during the beginning of mass, I genuflected towards my priest and he stopped and told me not to genuflect. He said “you only genuflect towards the tabernacle, and you bow towards the altar.” I felt like saying something back, but my obedience towards him, kept my mouth shut! I you demonstrate holiness, the faithful are going to acknowledge it. I still think it is appropriate, but he doesn’t. So I am going to respect his wishes and not do it towards him, but towards other priests, and DEFINITELY the bishop, I will continue to show reverence.

Christ be with you, and many blessings!

 

[TrueLight]

From what I have experienced, genuflecting towards a bishop is appropriate. And I totally agree with it! I think it is quite important that we keep as much tradition in the church as possible. In this day-in-age, with such a modern society, tradition is being thrown out the window.

I also read down the posts that people genuflect towards their priest. Funny thing is, as the procession was coming up during the beginning of mass, I genuflected towards my priest and he stopped and told me not to genuflect. He said “you only genuflect towards the tabernacle, and you bow towards the altar.” I felt like saying something back, but my obedience towards him, kept my mouth shut! I you demonstrate holiness, the faithful are going to acknowledge it. I still think it is appropriate, but he doesn’t. So I am going to respect his wishes and not do it towards him, but towards other priests, and DEFINITELY the bishop, I will continue to show reverence.

Christ be with you, and many blessings!

Well, that was embarrassing.

I thought you bow towards the priest and genuflect when the cross comes down? So much confusion, LOL.

 

[aemcpa]

Ive only ever seen one bishop (not many round here) and I just shook his hand. This was when I was in RCIA so didnt know what to do about anything.

Still today it kinda depends, if he is walking down the street id probably say hi and shake his hand and ask him to dinner (That would be awesome to get to invite a Bishop over and talk about things)

If he was in full clerical garb and during a formal cermony I might do something more, but this is America and its really just not the custome to bow to anyone.

Now it the Holy Father came around I would for sure.

Well, that’s insulting to the other 11 Apostles.

 

[curlycool89]

My vocation director was picked to be bishop of one of the closer diocese, and when I see him I normally shake his hand and say hi. Same with my bishop, a handhake. That is, of course, the normal way of greeting people in western Canada.

During Mass, if I am holding the Missal or handing the Bishop his mitre I usually do a slight head bow before walking away back to my pew.

 

[quiet52]

When our bishop stands outside the church after celebrating Mass, he reaches for each person’s hand to shake it. No one kisses his ring – one reason is it’s too hard to kiss it because of where his hand is.