Is it objectively meaningful and functionally correct to class Same Sex Attraction as a genuine form of human Sexuality?

[Mudgely]

He also believed that black people were inferior to white people. He was against slavery although he had slaves and even had sex with them so I’m not sure if he is the role model for supreme morality so I don’t get why Jefferson’s opinion is relevant.

Remember, I am not the one who condemns active homosexuality and accuses people who don’t condemn it as immoral and I repeat, neither do any modern Nations. In several Nations gay marriage exists and in all Western nations homosexuality is legal and not considered as disordered. It’s not ME who has to prove that active homosexuality is not perverted or disordered. If you make the claim it is perverted then YOU have to prove it. Why don’t you bring active homosexuals to court and accuse them of perversion and disorder?

It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”

Here is a quick guide to sexuality by the APA. There is a lot of confusion in these threads about choice, sexual orientation, and sexual activity. This article clarifies these topics succinctly: apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

This summary also answers the OP directly:

“Sexual orientation is distinct from other components of sex and gender, including biological sex (the anatomical, physiological, and genetic characteristics associated with being male or female), gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female),* and social gender role (the cultural norms that define feminine and masculine behavior).”

 

[Elizabeth502]

It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”

It has been forever that the Roman Church has not derived its moral teachings from the APA.

Imagine.

The Roman Church does not care what the APA says. The Church knows what the moral order is, and it does not include homoexual activity.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Mudgely
**
It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”**

It has also been decades since it has been known that the vast majority of psychologists are atheists. Does that prove there is no God?
**
As a public health concern, gluttony is far more serious than some percentage of a small percentage of the population engaging in anal sex. The point is well made that all this prattle on the issue is more about personal prejudice than anything else. **

Is your “personal prejudice” for sodomy over gluttony?

Gluttony is not a communicable disease that can be given to unsuspecting partners. And we don’t measure the gravity of sins by the amount of money they cost.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

lui

so I don’t get why Jefferson’s opinion is relevant.

Because he was not a Catholic … and you don’t have to be Catholic to have enough common sense to understand that sodomy is a gross perversion of nature.

 

[Lui]

It has been forever that the Roman Church has not derived its moral teachings from the APA.

Imagine.

The Roman Church does not care what the APA says. The Church knows what the moral order is, and it does not include homoexual activity.

Yeah, but why should that concern anyone who’s not a practicing Catholic? We don’t live in societies that live according to the laws of the Catholic Church. In certain lslamic nations women are required to cover certain or all parts of their body. That’s their business.
Just because the Catholic Church believes active homosexuality is immoral it doesn’t mean it is. The moral code of the Church is not absolute.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

lui
**
Just because the Catholic Church believes active homosexuality is immoral it doesn’t mean it is. The moral of the Church is not absolute. **

For the umpteenth time, sodomy is against common sense. The Catholic Church is for common sense. So are most of mankind … that is why most of mankind want nothing to do with sodomy.

 

[Lui]

lui

so I don’t get why Jefferson’s opinion is relevant.

Because he was not a Catholic … and you don’t have to be Catholic to have enough common sense to understand that sodomy is a gross perversion of nature.

Modern societies do not regard active homosexuality as a gross perversion so live with it.Your arguments are built on sand.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

lui

**Modern societies do not regard active homosexuality as a gross perversion so live with it. **

Stop speaking for modern societies and speak only for yourself.

Besides, “modern” has nothing to do with anything. When the gladiators fought to the death in the Roman arenas they were living in their own “modern times.” They would have justified the same perversion of sports on the ground that they were modern and acceptable. Do you agree they were natural just because they were “modern”?

 

[Mudgely]

Mudgely
**
It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”**

It has also been decades since it has been known that the vast majority of psychologists are atheists. Does that prove there is no God?
**
As a public health concern, gluttony is far more serious than some percentage of a small percentage of the population engaging in anal sex. The point is well made that all this prattle on the issue is more about personal prejudice than anything else. **

Is your “personal prejudice” for sodomy over gluttony?

Gluttony is not a communicable disease that can be given to unsuspecting partners. And we don’t measure the gravity of sins by the amount of money they cost.

My personal prejudice is for a sound public policy and health.

I think that there is a lot of noise about homosexuality. Homosexuals are a small percentage of the population - out of proportion to the number of people who practice same sex behavior.

Obesity, as has been pointed out, is a far more serious health problem than diseases contracted through anal sex. STD’s are also a serious health problem, which are transmitted in a variety of ways, and not restricted to gay people. I think the infection rate for HIV is currently at a 60/40 gay/straight mix, with about 50,000 new infections per year in the US. Blacks are 7 times as likely as whites to be infected. There are many factors besides “anal sex”. So, my prejudice would be against any sexual activity which has a high risk factor associated with it.

As has been pointed out, abstinence is the only sure way to avoid STD’s outside of a monogamous relationship with an uninfected partner. I can’t say that I agree with the CC position that sodomy may not be practiced among married people, if that is the position. I see no harm in it. Many people engage in oral sex. Statistics show that younger males have taken up the practice of using vibrators more and more, etc… why limit sexual behavior which is safe and responsible?

 

[Mudgely]

It has been forever that the Roman Church has not derived its moral teachings from the APA.

Imagine.

The Roman Church does not care what the APA says. The Church knows what the moral order is, and it does not include homoexual activity.

The OP posed the following question: Is it objectively meaningful and functionally correct to class Same Sex Attraction as a genuine form of human Sexuality?

Which is not a question about morality. The APA article addresses the question directly.

 

[Lui]

lui

**Modern societies do not regard active homosexuality as a gross perversion so live with it. **

Stop speaking for modern societies and speak only for yourself.

What part of my 500 posts in this thread don’t you get? This is my personal opinion on active homosexuality: I DO NOT THINK THAT SEX AMONG THE SAME GENDER IS MORALLY WRONG AS LONG AS IT’S MUTUAL AND NOBODY IS FORCED TO ANYTHING HE DOESN’T WANT TO DO. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARRY.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

lui

**Is that clear enough? **

It’s clear enough. You may not be a loon, but why are you defending the lunacy of same-sex marriage? Even the Greeks and the Romans at their worst were not so lunatic as to demand the marriage rite for sodomites.

 

[Lui]

**Is that clear enough? **

It’s clear enough. You may not be a loon, but why are you defending the lunacy of same-sex marriage? Even the Greeks and the Romans at their worst were not so lunatic as to demand the marriage rite for sodomites.

I believe in equal rights for everybody. You are aware that gay marriage is legally recognized in many nations including parts of the United States? If you personally think it is a lunacy then that is your problem. I think the death penalty in certain States is lunacy but that is my problem.

 

[Mudgely]

Mudgely
**
It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”**

It has also been decades since it has been known that the vast majority of psychologists are atheists. Does that prove there is no God?

Hi Charlemagne -

I just spent a few minutes trying to find support or refutation for your claim that the ** vast majority of psychologists are atheists**. I was unable to find anything. Do you have any support for it? Let’s not get into the argument as to whether the existence of God can be proved or disproved.

 

[Mudgely]

lui

**Is that clear enough? **

It’s clear enough. You may not be a loon, but why are you defending the lunacy of same-sex marriage? Even the Greeks and the Romans at their worst were not so lunatic as to demand the marriage rite for sodomites.

Out of 13.4 million valid votes in California. 48% voted for gay marriage. 52% voted against. California is a good place to test public opinion because it is almost exactly split 50/50 conservative to moderate/liberal. It would be far fetched to say that Lui’s opinion is marginal. The split in public opinion seems about even.

 

[Lui]

I just spent a few minutes trying to find support or refutation for your claim that the ** vast majority of psychologists are atheists**.

Even if theoretically ALL psychologists were atheists, why should that prove there is no God? It’s not a psychologist’s job to prove or disprove the existence of God. It is his job though to diagnose if something is a mental disorder

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Where exactly did I write that I support incest? Nice try with the insults again. I just pointed out that society determines morality and didn’t make a moral judgment myself.

Btw, I personally believe that incest leads to deformation which is why a find the theory that humanity is the result of incest(first parents) absurd and believe in evolution…

Genesis is an allegory. It could be that Adam and Eve were the first beings with human souls and thus were the first humans.

lui
**
Evidently you pick your battles on the basis of personal prejudice, not the actual levels of harm involved in the activities you choose to condemn. **

Since you have condemned incest, I suppose people guilty of it would say the same for you.

Sodomy can produce communicable disease. Gluttony does not. Ergo the urgency of stopping sodomy, but gluttony is certainly a serious sin and the fact that it is called a capital sin by the Church makes it clear that the sinner is in trouble.

Sodomy does not produce communicable diseases, but it can spread them… just like vaginal intercourse. Overall gluttony is more dangerous to health

snip

The penis was not designed for the anus! What part of that sentence do you not understand?

Thomas Jefferson believed that sodomy in men, repulsive and perverse as it is, should be punished with castration. Jefferson was not a Catholic!

The penis is not designed for the anus of a man or a woman, people seem to forget that heterosexual couples can and do commit sodomy.
Jefferson also screwed one of his slaves and had his children in bondage…

Benadam;8466988:

But there are biological issues related to attraction. There is a correlation between immune profile and attractiveness of the scent of a person. Opposite immunity profiles attract, which tends to make siblings unattractive to each other, and preserves a broad spectrum of immune response capability for the species.

There are a few others. When men are given the scent of a woman, then they lose their ability to discriminate which women are attractive to them. All women become attractive. Men find a woman’s voice more attractive when she is fertile. One day can make a difference. Women generally dislike the scent of a man, unless they are fertile, at which time they like the scent.

Pheromones influence attractiveness

Mudgely
**
It has been decades since the American Psychiatric Association, and since the American Psychological Association determined that homosexuality is not “perverse” or “disordered.”**

It has also been decades since it has been known that the vast majority of psychologists are atheists. Does that prove there is no God?
**
As a public health concern, gluttony is far more serious than some percentage of a small percentage of the population engaging in anal sex. The point is well made that all this prattle on the issue is more about personal prejudice than anything else. **

Is your “personal prejudice” for sodomy over gluttony?

Gluttony is not a communicable disease that can be given to unsuspecting partners. And we don’t measure the gravity of sins by the amount of money they cost.
That’s a red herring, the existence of God is not relevant to the American Psychological Association whereas whether some is a psychological disorder or not is relevant.

Modern societies do not regard active homosexuality as a gross perversion so live with it.Your arguments are built on sand.

Try 50 years ago, how many approved of active homosexuality?

My personal prejudice is for a sound public policy and health.

I think that there is a lot of noise about homosexuality. Homosexuals are a small percentage of the population - out of proportion to the number of people who practice same sex behavior.

Obesity, as has been pointed out, is a far more serious health problem than diseases contracted through anal sex. STD’s are also a serious health problem, which are transmitted in a variety of ways, and not restricted to gay people. I think the infection rate for HIV is currently at a 60/40 gay/straight mix, with about 50,000 new infections per year in the US. Blacks are 7 times as likely as whites to be infected. There are many factors besides “anal sex”. So, my prejudice would be against any sexual activity which has a high risk factor associated with it.

As has been pointed out, abstinence is the only sure way to avoid STD’s outside of a monogamous relationship with an uninfected partner. I can’t say that I agree with the CC position that sodomy may not be practiced among married people, if that is the position. I see no harm in it. Many people engage in oral sex. Statistics show that younger males have taken up the practice of using vibrators more and more, etc… why limit sexual behavior which is safe and responsible?

Black gays lack the collective memory of the AIDS epidemic thus are much less cautious

oral sex is not safe

lui

**Is that clear enough? **

It’s clear enough. You may not be a loon, but why are you defending the lunacy of same-sex marriage? Even the Greeks and the Romans at their worst were not so lunatic as to demand the marriage rite for sodomites.
Mediaeval Europe absolutely unequivocally condemned homosexual acts, but everything else was fine whereas for the Greeks and Romans it was the inverse, so yeah the Greeks and Romans were bigger homophobes than Catholic Europe.

 

[Mudgely]

Black gays lack the collective memory of the AIDS epidemic thus are much less cautious

That is not clear. A 2009 study concluded that young black MSM do not engage in riskier behavior than latino or white men. Blacks are 13 percent of the population, yet 40 percent of the deaths from HIV and nearly 50 percent of the infections. Nobody knows why. A white man has 1 in 104 chance of acquiring HIV. A white women’s odds are 1 in 588. A black male is 1 in 16, black female 1 in 30. This is lifetime risk.

 

[Lui]

Jefferson also screwed one of his slaves and had his children in bondage…

Lol. I mentioned that too but I love your way of describing it better

Try 50 years ago, how many approved of active homosexuality?

Society luckily improves. Often people talk about the good ol’ days when people still had values but 50 years ago black people were treated like s**t, had to use separate toilets, were refused service in certain places and had to sit in back of the bus. Only 64 years ago(we’re talking about when Bugs Bunny cartoons were being made) a man called Adolf Hitler classified Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and others as Untermenschen, had them put into concentration camps and executed. In many nations today women are regarded as 2nd class humans and children are forced to work. Does that mean their values were/are correct?
A lot has changed in the past 50 years. Now a nation who still had slavery 150 years ago now has a black President.

 

[Mudgely]

Lol. I mentioned that too but I love your way of describing it better

Society luckily improves. Often people talk about the good ol’ days when people still had values but 50 years ago black people were treated like s**t, had to use separate toilets, were refused service in certain places and had to sit in back of the bus. Only 64 years ago(we’re talking about when Bugs Bunny cartoons were being made) a man called Adolf Hitler classified Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and others as Untermenschen, had them put into concentration camps and executed. In many nations today women are regarded as 2nd class humans and children are forced to work. Does that mean their values were/are correct?

With gays, a lot of the public acceptance has come from the legal protections which allow them to “come out”, and people can see who they are. There was a time that they were persecuted class which was defined largely by negative stereotypes. One you realize that the guys next door are gay, and their lives and values are no different than anyone else, then the myths and prejudices are dispelled. The advance of scientific and medical knowledge has helped a lot too. There wasn’t even a concept of “sexuality” as there is today, when the Church’s opinions were formed in the 1-3 centuries.