Is it ok to breastfeed at Mass?

[Memaw]

I don’t think it has ever been acceptable, but it didn’t exactly go away after Biblical times.

Apparently, it was still a problem in the time of St. John Chrystostom, as he complained that the women at church were no different from courtesans, and the men like “frantic stallions.” He also noted that people were talking throughout the liturgy, and “their talk is filthier than excrement.” Then he went on to report that the rush for Communion proceeded by way of “kicking, striking, filled with anger, shoving our neighbors, full of disorder.”

For an eye-opening read, I recommend “Though Their Own Eyes: Liturgy as the Byzantines saw it”. It is out of print, but if you can get ahold of it, it is quite the read. It might make you grateful for the breastfeeding mother who comes to quietly and appropriately worship God, but happens to need to feed her baby while doing so.

Never heard this before, can you show us in the writings of St. John Chrysostom where he said that. I wouldn’t believe everything you read until you check it out. God Bless, Memaw

 

[babochka]

Never heard this before, can you show us in the writings of St. John Chrysostom where he said that. I wouldn’t believe everything you read until you check it out. God Bless, Memaw

Indeed, I have “checked it out”, and invite you to do the same, if you can find it.

I learned it from the book, now out of print, “Through their own Eyes: Liturgy as the Byzantines Saw It”, by Father Robert Taft, S.J.

amazon.com/Through-Their-Own-Eyes-Byzantines/dp/1932401067

Although I have not read the original sources, Father Taft is a scholar of remarkable renown. His credentials are impeccable and he is considered the living expert in Byzantine Liturgy by Catholic and Orthodox alike. He was a Professor of Oriental Liturgy at the Pontifical Oriental Institute in Rome for over 30 years. Since we non-scholars do not have the skills and language translation abilities of those who have dedicated their academic lives to studying the Church Fathers, nor do we have access to their non-published works, we must, at some point, choose to believe what is written by somebody else.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

There’s a church in central Florida, in Haines City, perhaps, where the chief artistry behind the celebrant is a representation of people, presumably the Christian people, in garb of Biblical times, and there on the left is a woman breastfeeding a baby.

In this church you don’t have a choice (once you get there and stay there) about thinking-- almost constantly – about breastfeeding a baby.

The REAL answer would be based on canons 1205 to 1210, about sacred places. 1210 says that in a sacred place (a worship space w/ or w/o the tabernacle) anything that takes place should be related to worship, piety, or religion.

canon law, vatican website: vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P4G.HTM

Canon 1210 deals with uses to which the FACILITY may or may not be put. From “New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law,” Canon Law Society of America, Copyright 2000, page 1427: “The Ordinary’s permission is necessary for each case to use a sacred place for a secular purpose, e.g., a concert of classical music which is secular in inspiration, graduation exercises, a talk on a secular topic in the interest of the public good. No permission may be given to use a sacred place for anything that offends against the holiness of the place, e.g., a concert of loud rock music, a political rally, merchandising.”

It would seem to be a grave misuse of this Canon to say that it forbids breast feeding (with appropriate modesty) in church, giving the tyke some Cheerios, bottle feeding, etc. Since blowing one’s nose is related to neither “worship, piety, or religion,” would you hold that one should leave the church for that too?

 

[babochka]

Never heard this before, can you show us in the writings of St. John Chrysostom where he said that. I wouldn’t believe everything you read until you check it out. God Bless, Memaw

Here you go. This is what a found in a brief search. I’m sure I could find more if I continued, but I’ve got a baby to feed. Thank you for the inspiration to try to find the source.

And you, O Man, standing about in the Church, with a mind only for attractions of the women, are you not horrified, offering such an insult to the temple of God? Do you regard the Church of God as a house of ill fame, and of less repute than the market place? For there you would be ashamed, and afraid, to be seen staring at a woman so curiously. But in the very temple of God, while He is speaking to you, and threatening you with punishment, you dare to do such things during the very time in which you are hearing that such things are not to be done? And are you not shocked, or troubled in your soul, at making your eyes and your heart the workshop of evil doing? Better for a man to be blind than use his eyes to do this.

I’m sure I could find more if I took the time. The bibliography and footnotes of the book that I referred you to are thorough. If you are interested in the subject and doubt Fr. Taft’s scholarship, I’m sure you can find the originals yourself, though you might need to take up a study of Greek to truly understand and trust what you have read. For myself, I am grateful that scholars such as Father Taft have distilled challenging subjects into works that I find more accessible for my state in life.

 

[maryjk]

It also depends on the church. If it’s routine for mother’s to breastfeed in the pew, then you should have no worries. Now if it’s a very large church like I go to, where people can’t possibly know everyone, it’d be frowned on unless it was in the cry room. **It would be forbidden in our Mother Church. They have twenty-six pages or rules they give to new parishioners! **And we have to follow them all! No cry rooms there because it’s the old - and beautiful - cathedral. One of the rules is for a breastfeeding mother to leave the church. To be sure, the cathedral is not a kid-friendly church. It’s beautiful, but not kid friendly. So, it depends on the church as well. Still, I’d be on the safe side and opt for the cry room. If he’s a fast eater, you can soon return to your seat in the pew. And if you sit in the back when he’s hungry, fewer people will notice.

Please, please post where this church is located.

I am sure most of us want to avoid it.

Most of use would also like to know how the heck they enforce these pages and pages of rules. Do the ushers kick the mothers out?

 

[misspriss]

That’s awesome! I would love to see a picture.

I would imagine that the parishioners of that Church get used to it rather quickly and don’t give it a second thought after some time.

How about the Shrine of Our Lady of La Leche, in St. Augustine, which features -gasp- a statue of Our Lady, breastfeeding Jesus. In the chapel. Above the altar. Talk about inescapable! How on earth is one to pray with that sort of thing going on in the Church?

traditium.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/inshrine2.jpg

A google search for images of Our Lady of La Leche, or for images of the Mary Breastfeeding Jesus, will bring up plenty of images in sacred art, from early paintings in the catacombs, to iconography, and throughout the Renaissance.

So, in your opinion, would these canons also preclude bottle-feeding a baby in Church? Or helping a wiggling toddler get out of a warm coat? Or taking up a collection? Or providing medical assistance to a person in need? Maybe we should remove a person from the Church before providing CPR?

I just wanted to add that my sister was sitting here next to me and I showed her that image, she asked to see it again and said she didn’t even notice that Mary was breastfeeding Jesus in that statue, it just looked like she was holding him. Yep. That’s the way to do it.

 

[babochka]

I just wanted to add that my sister was sitting here next to me and I showed her that image, she asked to see it again and said she didn’t even notice that Mary was breastfeeding Jesus in that statue, it just looked like she was holding him. Yep. That’s the way to do it.

This is the way that I nurse my babies, too, and it is nearly impossible to see what’s going on, unless you happen to be starting right at me during latch-on, or looking for at my baby’s head from close-up, for an extended period of time. I have noticed that some women with larger breasts might have a hard time being so discrete, though. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t allowed to nurse in public.

This particular statue shows very little breast, but there are a number of pictures, not at all scandalous for their times, that show considerably more breast, and even a bit of nipple.

Here’s another version of essentially the same image. This particular image (Our Lady of Milk and Good Delivery) is currently in a church in the Philipines, but is originally from 16th Century Spain.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

While I personally would not be comfortable showing this much of my breast, there is a clear record in art, through antiquity and into the Renaissance, which portrays the Blessed Mother - a model of purity and modesty - breastfeeding, without so much as a blanket to cover herself. Throughout much of history, this was not at all scandalous. I’m not sure why it is now, except we’re in such a hyper-sexualized society.

 

[Memaw]

This is the way that I nurse my babies, too, and it is nearly impossible to see what’s going on, unless you happen to be starting right at me during latch-on, or looking for at my baby’s head from close-up, for an extended period of time. I have noticed that some women with larger breasts might have a hard time being so discrete, though. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t allowed to nurse in public.

This particular statue shows very little breast, but there are a number of pictures, not at all scandalous for their times, that show considerably more breast, and even a bit of nipple.

Here’s another version of essentially the same image. This particular image (Our Lady of Milk and Good Delivery) is currently in a church in the Philipines, but is originally from 16th Century Spain.

https://flic.kr/p/bu3e7x

While I personally would not be comfortable showing this much of my breast, there is a clear record in art, through antiquity and into the Renaissance, which portrays the Blessed Mother - a model of purity and modesty - breastfeeding, without so much as a blanket to cover herself. Throughout much of history, this was not at all scandalous. I’m not sure why it is now, except we’re in such a hyper-sexualized society.

This is an artists version probably wanting to show the closeness of mother feeding her child. But I am sure the Blessed Mother never actually exposed herself while nursing. Mothers then spent most of their time at home with their babies anyway.
I agree about our modern society!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[paperwight66]

This is an artists version probably wanting to show the closeness of mother feeding her child. God Bless, Memaw

That’s absolutely true, Memaw. The artist, like many others showing the infant Jesus completely naked to an uncomfortable and unrealistic way (I always want to put a nappy/diaper on Him) is wanting to emphasise the humanity of Jesus, and His dependence on His mother.

It’s the same with the robes - I wouldn’t have thought Our Lady was dressed in gold-edged garments during her time on earth. But the artist is expressing her dignity and blessedness.

 

[mommy_k]

My husband and I have a 9 month old son who is breastfed. If he happens to get hungry during Mass, I was just wondering if it would be ok to feed him sitting in the pew or would it be better to walk out and do it somewhere else? I wouldn’t really want to do it in the bathroom just because I think bathrooms are kind of a gross place to eat, I mean I wouldn’t want to eat in one. But our church does have a “Cry room” in the back of the church for people with young babies and children. Would it be better to do it in there? Or does it even matter? I’m always discreet about it anytime that I nurse around other people. Usually you can’t even really tell that I’m nursing him, it just looks like I’m holding him. Thanks in advance.

I didn’t read all of the posts-but personally, I would express into a bottle and bring it if you are concerned.

 

[Memaw]

I didn’t read all of the posts-but personally, I would express into a bottle and bring it if you are concerned.

Some nursing babies won’t take a bottle. Several of mine wouldn’t. 2 of them I had to teach them to drink from a cup several months before I stopped nursing at age 1 year. God Bless, Memaw

 

[misspriss]

I didn’t read all of the posts-but personally, I would express into a bottle and bring it if you are concerned.

To me this just reinforces the attitude that the well designed, natural way to feed infants, that was good enough for the Son of God, is somehow shameful and we should circumvent it to use the man-made substitute for a breast, which ironically is quite nipple/breast looking from some bottle makers.

And expressing is difficult if you don’t do it regularly, you have to catch a time between feeds so not to mess up your normal feeding schedule. Then if you don’t feed (since you are giving a bottle) it can cause issues like clogged ducts which can lead to mastitis. Probably not as likely with an older infant though.

 

[Kay_Cee]

It’s okay to breastfeed at Mass, but be careful what you wear. My baby daughter used to tug on my shirt to indicate she wanted to feed, and one day at Mass when I was wearing a loose knit shirt, she tugged the top of it all the way down to my belly button.

Wait. It gets worse. She did it right in front of Father as I was stepping up to receive Communion.

Father, bless him, pretended not to notice.

 

[zab]

Breastfeeding mothers have always breastfed in the pews during Mass for as long as I can remember. I am 65 and I remember my mother doing it. I did it. Some of my friends did it, and many young mothers today (at least in our parish) do it. It is so discreet that probably only mothers who have nursed their babies know that it is going on. They cover with blankets and wraps and nothing shows. Other than using a baby blanket, there are some beautiful and stylish wraps that can be purchased or made. One of our parishioners, a mother of several children used to make and sell breastfeeding wraps and she would give them as presents to her friends that were breastfeeding mothers. My daughter loves hers and uses it all the time. It has a strap that goes around her neck and the top front has a flexible rib in the seam so that the mother can peek in to see her baby and it allows for a little air to come in for the baby. There is nothing wrong with a mother breastfeeding in the pew. Period! First of all, many parishes do not have a place for breastfeeding mothers to go to. And even if a mother did have a place to sit such as in the vestibule, you have to remember that often the mother has other children to attend to as well. If a mother wants or prefers to go out, that is her choice, but she should not be made to feel that it is disrespectful or wrong to breastfeed in the pew. The reminders of modesty- well that is a different issue and everyone is called to be modest.

 

[mommy_k]

To me this just reinforces the attitude that the well designed, natural way to feed infants, that was good enough for the Son of God, is somehow shameful and we should circumvent it to use the man-made substitute for a breast, which ironically is quite nipple/breast looking from some bottle makers.

And expressing is difficult if you don’t do it regularly, you have to catch a time between feeds so not to mess up your normal feeding schedule. Then if you don’t feed (since you are giving a bottle) it can cause issues like clogged ducts which can lead to mastitis. Probably not as likely with an older infant though.

This is my personal opinion, of what I would do and if the op is concerned about if it will be frowned on by others, or be a distraction then it is an option. It has nothing to do with shame.

Giving one feeding a week by espressing is not going do much harm.

Mary also changed Jesus’ diaper–so there’s another thing for you to think about, before putting words in my mouth about how natural something is.

 

[babochka]

Breastfeeding mothers have always breastfed in the pews during Mass for as long as I can remember. I am 65 and I remember my mother doing it. I did it. Some of my friends did it, and many young mothers today (at least in our parish) do it. It is so discreet that probably only mothers who have nursed their babies know that it is going on. They cover with blankets and wraps and nothing shows. Other than using a baby blanket, there are some beautiful and stylish wraps that can be purchased or made. One of our parishioners, a mother of several children used to make and sell breastfeeding wraps and she would give them as presents to her friends that were breastfeeding mothers. My daughter loves hers and uses it all the time. It has a strap that goes around her neck and the top front has a flexible rib in the seam so that the mother can peek in to see her baby and it allows for a little air to come in for the baby. There is nothing wrong with a mother breastfeeding in the pew. Period! First of all, many parishes do not have a place for breastfeeding mothers to go to. And even if a mother did have a place to sit such as in the vestibule, you have to remember that often the mother has other children to attend to as well. If a mother wants or prefers to go out, that is her choice, but she should not be made to feel that it is disrespectful or wrong to breastfeed in the pew. The reminders of modesty- well that is a different issue and everyone is called to be modest.

Best answer yet!

 

[babochka]

This is an artists version probably wanting to show the closeness of mother feeding her child.

I don’t know about the particular image in that picture and what that artist had in mind. I do know a bit about the iconography depicting Mary, the Milk-Giver. This particular icon is traced back to the 6th century. This was a time in which the Monophysite heresy, which stated that Jesus’ divine nature absorbed his human nature, was prevalent. The icon is a rebuttal of that heresy, as it shows Jesus, who is God, in a most human of manners.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Mothers then spent most of their time at home with their babies anyway.

I’m not sure about that. I rather thought they spent much of their time going to the well to draw water, going to the river to wash clothes, going to the market, etc. But mostly, they were in the company of other women.