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marty1818
Guest
It should be noted that God’s love is not like our love. Human love is attracted to things by the good it finds in them while God’s love causes the good in things.
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zro_x
Guest
And since god loves Satan, there is good in him, even if that good is merely the fact that he posseses existence.
I think Satan is probably frustrated that he can’t be as evil as he wants to be, since God continues to hold him in existence.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Hate your enemies, but know that your only enemies are Satan and his dominion of devils.
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zro_x
Guest
Christian teaching is to love our enemies.
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speakttruth
Guest
Since you obviously are not understanding the concepts of love your enemy I found this to help you. I think the most important thing is to focus on God and not this hangup you seem to have.
This person explained it that even a child could understand.
So armed with a few printouts of interest, I took three grandchildren with me to visit Mrs. M in the nursing home. On the way, I explained to the 12-, 10-, and 3-year olds the question that Mrs. M had asked. The 10-year old immediately said, “But how can God hate his own creation?” What a question! The Bible is clear that the devil is our adversary and we must oppose him, but does God hate the devil with some divine perfection? My own answer follows, subject to immediate revision should the Church have already addressed this issue.
God and the devil exist outside of the dimension of time in our universe: God as creator of time and all else that exists, and the devil as a spiritual being created by God. God loves the devil because God loves His own handiwork. However, the devil has an unrestricted free will because he is not tempted by anything external to his own nature. God hates the devil for what the devil has freely chosen to become.
In contrast to our sins which can be forgiven in this world, the devil’s sin is unforgivable. Even the sins of our enemies can be forgiven. Moreover, Christians are required to be part of God’s plan to give His love to our enemies so they are not eternally damned. Not so for our enemy the devil. Once the devil sinned, he sinned forever.
A basic principle of Christianity is “Mercy in this world; justice in the next.” God is unmerciful outside of time, because then His mercy would contradict His justice–and God is NOT contradictory! The devil’s sin is unforgivable because he cannot change; change requires intelligent beings to exist within time.
When Satan rebelled, God may have constrained the devil to the straitjacket of time to suffer in hell and to tempt man, yet not to know the future. God foresaw the devil’s arrogance, yet the devil’s pride and his temptations of man are part of God’s plan in time.
So if you love God then you don’t love the devil. He doesn’t expect us to because it would go against him. Is that better for your understanding? Nobody feels sorry for the devil either, he made his choice, will you?
GB
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fred_conty
Guest
What good does it do to hate anything? Does it accomplish anything?
Yes, it gives rise to anger. Anger gives rise to physiological and psychological changes.
Heart beat, blood pressure, neve tension, headaches, stomach ulcers, frowning, attitude changes, unpleasantness, …
It stays with us, and dosen’t do anything to satan. If anything it pleases him to make you hate him. Then he can expand on that hate, and start making it a habit with you.
He wants you to hate, hate, hate, even him if he can get you to do that.
Just some thoughts.
Yes, it gives rise to anger. Anger gives rise to physiological and psychological changes.
Heart beat, blood pressure, neve tension, headaches, stomach ulcers, frowning, attitude changes, unpleasantness, …
It stays with us, and dosen’t do anything to satan. If anything it pleases him to make you hate him. Then he can expand on that hate, and start making it a habit with you.
He wants you to hate, hate, hate, even him if he can get you to do that.
Just some thoughts.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
LOVE your fellow man. This is the meaning of LOVE your enemies, but God commands us to hate Satan and his dominion of devils.
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zro_x
Guest
oh I think I understand it just fine. I just don’t agree with it.
Two errors here. The first is that Satan exists outside of time. This isn’t the case; creatures can’t be eternal. Only God exists outside of time. Secondly, got doesn’t hate the devil for what he’s become, he only hates the works of the devil.
It would not go against God. As fred conty pointed out, the devil wants us to hate him. hate is poisonous, unless it is directed at actions, not at persons, and it is possible to love someone while hating their actions. Yes, loving the devil will do no do him no good, as he can not repent, but hating the devil will do us harm, and it is what he wants. If you want to help Satan, hating him is a good way to go about it.When Satan rebelled, God may have constrained the devil to the straitjacket of time to suffer in hell and to tempt man, yet not to know the future. God foresaw the devil’s arrogance, yet the devil’s pride and his temptations of man are part of God’s plan in time.
So if you love God then you don’t love the devil. He doesn’t expect us to because it would go against him. Is that better for your understanding? Nobody feels sorry for the devil either, he made his choice, will you?
GB
Remember what love is. Desiring the good for another. We should desire the good for Satan, even if it is impossible for us to act on that desire, since Satan will never turn from his evil ways.
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zro_x
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source?
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down_under
Guest
think about it this was. Satan has done you a great service in trying to kill you (the second time, eternal death). You see every evil thing he has ever done to you has only served to bring God eminently to your side. He thinks love is this heel that if he strikes it you will fall. In reality it is him striking on the very shield we cling to that strengths our relationship with God. In a strange way you owe him one. So in that spirit pray and thank God for those sufferings because they are the seed for your relationship with Him.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Personal revelation and the reading of Jewish mysticism.
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speakttruth
Guest
Are you Catholic? I don’t know where your getting these heretical views from. I think your purposely trying to antagonize. (must be the devil in you)
The devil IS outside of time. That is why he is eternally damed because he said he would not serve this was outside of time with God. All angels were created outside of time. If you have read anything about theology from a reputable source you would know this. Try listening to Scott Hahn. Really these posts are getting sillier and sillier. 
Read your Catechism and it will help you. I said in my earlier posts that hating the devil is not a feeling. Why don’t you get on with your life and forget about Satan he is not worth it. What desire should you have for Satan to do good? It is impossible for him to do good. Why don’t you desire for yourself to do good. He is already dammed. Open up your Bible and start learning the scriptures instead of making things up. You have shown nothing in the Catholic teachings, but your own opinion to try and back up this silly notion to love Satan. I have given you plenty and can show many more scriptural information about Satan for your understanding, but your not interested in actually learning the truth. Nothing you have said so far even make any sense. :jrbirdman:
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Satan = Evil. If you love Satan then it follows that you love Evil. It is sometimes hard to realize what is truly evil in this world, and that is how Satan confuses people and steals their souls.
Hate evil and love goodness. Hate lies and love the truth. Hate the darkness and love the light. Satan is the father of all lies. Jesus is the truth and the light and the way.
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speakttruth
Guest
For people who are being misguided by lies.
Jesus did say in Matthew 5:44, “Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.” He also said just a few verses before this one “not to resist an evil person” (5:39). However, the devil is not any ordinary “person,” but rather a spirit. When the Bible talks about how we are to treat the devil, it uses words just the opposite of those above. It says that we are to “resist the devil” so that he will leave us alone (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9). It says to “not make room for the devil” in our lives (Ephesians 4:27, NRSV). And we are told to “stand” firm against the devil’s evil tricks (Eph. 6:11). In Matthew 5, Jesus was talking about other human beings, not spirit beings like the devil. And so, God expects us to do good to all people, even our enemies (which is not easy to do, yet it’s something we have to do), but Jesus was not talking about the devil.
In the Catechism
The reality of sin
386 Sin is present in human history; any attempt to ignore it or to give this dark reality other names would be futile. To try to understand what sin is, one must first recognize the profound relation of man to God, for only in this relationship is the evil of sin unmasked in its true identity as humanity’s rejection of God and opposition to him, even as it continues to weigh heavy on human life and history.
387 Only the light of divine Revelation clarifies the reality of sin and particularly of the sin committed at mankind’s origins. Without the knowledge Revelation gives of God we cannot recognize sin clearly and are tempted to explain it as merely a developmental flaw, a psychological weakness, a mistake, or the necessary consequence of an inadequate social structure, etc. Only in the knowledge of God’s plan for man can we grasp that sin is an abuse of the freedom that God gives to created persons so that they are capable of loving him and loving one another.
Original sin - an essential truth of the faith
388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story’s ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to “convict the world concerning sin”,262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.
389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the “reverse side” of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.
How to read the account of the fall
390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265
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Jesus did say in Matthew 5:44, “Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.” He also said just a few verses before this one “not to resist an evil person” (5:39). However, the devil is not any ordinary “person,” but rather a spirit. When the Bible talks about how we are to treat the devil, it uses words just the opposite of those above. It says that we are to “resist the devil” so that he will leave us alone (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9). It says to “not make room for the devil” in our lives (Ephesians 4:27, NRSV). And we are told to “stand” firm against the devil’s evil tricks (Eph. 6:11). In Matthew 5, Jesus was talking about other human beings, not spirit beings like the devil. And so, God expects us to do good to all people, even our enemies (which is not easy to do, yet it’s something we have to do), but Jesus was not talking about the devil.
In the Catechism
The reality of sin
386 Sin is present in human history; any attempt to ignore it or to give this dark reality other names would be futile. To try to understand what sin is, one must first recognize the profound relation of man to God, for only in this relationship is the evil of sin unmasked in its true identity as humanity’s rejection of God and opposition to him, even as it continues to weigh heavy on human life and history.
387 Only the light of divine Revelation clarifies the reality of sin and particularly of the sin committed at mankind’s origins. Without the knowledge Revelation gives of God we cannot recognize sin clearly and are tempted to explain it as merely a developmental flaw, a psychological weakness, a mistake, or the necessary consequence of an inadequate social structure, etc. Only in the knowledge of God’s plan for man can we grasp that sin is an abuse of the freedom that God gives to created persons so that they are capable of loving him and loving one another.
Original sin - an essential truth of the faith
388 With the progress of Revelation, the reality of sin is also illuminated. Although to some extent the People of God in the Old Testament had tried to understand the pathos of the human condition in the light of the history of the fall narrated in Genesis, they could not grasp this story’s ultimate meaning, which is revealed only in the light of the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.261 We must know Christ as the source of grace in order to know Adam as the source of sin. The Spirit-Paraclete, sent by the risen Christ, came to “convict the world concerning sin”,262 by revealing him who is its Redeemer.
389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the “reverse side” of the Good News that Jesus is the Savior of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.
How to read the account of the fall
390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265
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speakttruth
Guest
Cont-
**II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS **
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably *rejected *God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 **The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.**271
393 It is the *irrevocable *character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God. 395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275
**II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS **
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably *rejected *God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 **The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.**271
393 It is the *irrevocable *character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God. 395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275
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zro_x
Guest
Well, I suppose that’s fair, but I’m afraid your personal revelation isn’t going to convince me that We’re supposed to hate the devil. I need either a sensible argument or official devine revelation.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
To hate Satan is to hate evil. Nobody really believes that we should love Satan and evil. What do you propose our relationship with Satan should be? Don’t you hate Satan for fooling Eve?
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zro_x
Guest
I could say the same thing to you. I’m not the only one on this thread who claims that hatred of any person, devil or not, is poisonous. As a matter of fact, by my count, only a scarce majority on this thread have taken your view. A significant minority have taken mine. I’m just the most vocal of them.Are you Catholic? I don’t know where your getting these heretical views from. I think your purposely trying to antagonize. (must be the devil in you)
Try reading your chatechism. In fact, you quoted the very passage of the chatechism that shows that Satan is affected by time. paragraph 391 shows that the devil was good, and became evil. That is a change, and in order to have change, you must have time. So satan exists in some timeframe, though it probably isn’t ours. God, however, experiences no change and is completely timeless.
That’s right, it isn’t. It is a desire. Hate and love are both desires, not feelings or actions. If we hate the devil, we desire him to be unhappy and in pain. If we love him, we desire him to be happy and joyful. Nothing we can do can make either of these desires a reality, and we know that the devil will never again be happy or joyful. But that isn’t something we should rejoice about. It is a sorrowful truth.Really these posts are getting sillier and sillier.
Read your Catechism and it will help you. I said in my earlier posts that hating the devil is not a feeling.
I’m not making things up. As a matter of fact, I could say that you are making things up, or at least taking biblical sources and jumping to conclusions about what they mean. I’ve already quoted “love your enemies.” There are no qualifiers for that command. You’ve given bible and chatechism quotes which tell me to resist Satan, but you have not given me any quotes which tell me to hate him. Hating Satan is distinct from resisting him.
I have given you “love your enemies” and explained that some respectable theologians hint that even Satan should be loved, or at the very least, not hated.
I’m very interested in learning the truth, and if you can give me a decent argument about why you think Satan should be hated, Or you can show me a bible or chatechism passage, or even a quote from a prominent historical theologian that actually explicitly says we should hate Satan, I’m all ears. So far, you’ve just explained what your view is without really defending why you hold that view, except to say that loving Satan is useless, or by equating resisting Satan with hating him. I have already addressed both of these objections.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Question: “Does God love Satan? Since we are to love our enemies, does that mean we should love Satan?”
Answer: No, God does not love Satan, and neither should we. God cannot love that which is evil and unholy, and Satan embodies all of that. He is the enemy (1 Peter 5:8); the evil one (Matthew 6:13); the father of lies and a murderer (John 8:44); the accuser of God’s people (Revelation 12:10); the tempter (1 Thessalonians 3:5); proud, wicked and violent (Isaiah 14:12-15); a deceiver (Acts 13:10); a schemer (Ephesians 6:11); a thief (Luke 8:12); and many more evil things. He is, in fact, everything that God hates. The heart of Satan is fixed and confirmed in his hatred of God, his judgment is final, and his destruction is sure. Revelation 20 describes God’s future plan for Satan, and love for Satan has no part in it.
Jesus’ command that we love our enemies (Matthew 5:44) is meant to govern interpersonal relationships in this world. We love God, and we love people (even our enemies), who are made in God’s image. Angels are not made in God’s image. We are never told to love the holy angels, and we are certainly never told to love the evil angels.
Since Satan is everything that is antithetical to the God we love, we cannot love Satan. If we loved Satan, we would be forced to hate God, because holiness is the opposite of sin.
God has already determined that there will be no forgiveness for Satan; we are the objects of God’s sacrificial love, shown on the cross. As God was lovingly redeeming mankind, He was putting Satan “to open shame” (Colossians 2:15). God’s judgment of Satan will be part of His great love for us.
Read more: gotquestions.org/does-God-love-Satan.html#ixzz2MhpwMYCu
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zro_x
Guest
This is just someone’s personal opinion. He doesn’t give any arguments for why this claim is true, beyond equating resisting the devil to hating him. Otherwise, he just explains what his (likely protestant, based on the cite in your link) opinion is.
To answer his one objection, the devil incites us to do moral evil, and we should resist moral evil no matter who’s trying to get us to commit it. Physical evil, however, is what Jesus is talking about when he says “do not resist an evil person.” or in other words, do not resist when an evil person mistreats you. But do resist when he tries to get you to do evil.
In the chatechism you quoted, the opposite problem arises. I respect the authority of the source, but it nowhere does it explicitly or even implicitly state that we are to hate the devil. Again, we are to resist him, not hate him.
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