Is it OK to show up at communion on Sunday & leave right after if I attended Saturday evening mass the previous day?

[zab]

I’m sorry but the church has ben very clear on what we should not do regarding the eucharist, that’s why we know what ingredients we cannot use in the species, who can participate and from which point and how and with what disposition, how it’s administered and what is not legitimate in that practice and the limits of reception, and days of obligation etc etc. So the idea that we can assume something wrong that is not declared so either directly or implied by a particular rule to the contrary is simply not true. Our church is very clear regarding the Eucharist, the mass and Our Lord’s body on what is not legitimate.

You are the ones who keep trying to misrepresent what I’m saying. Implying that simply stating a fact -that there’s no sin in going to receive communion and leaving, is somehow misunderstanding the liturgy. Someone even said earlier that I was saying that the fact of no obligation means we can do whatever we want, all are false. I’m just stating a simple truth that no one as yet has been able to show to be false or contrary to the law of the church. There’s no obligation to participate in daily mass not on a day of obligation in order to partake of communion being distributed in one. I know that the mass is the fount of all graces and just participating in one gives you unparalleled graces, I do- regularly. What I said was that a person can go to one simply to partake of communion and leave, legitimately and without any sin. I didn’t say that walking in, one could do whatever they wanted . They genuflect, perform all required gestures while there- but there’s no sin if they take communion and leave.

The church herself does not place the obstacle, none of us can presume to do so. That’s all I’m saying.

Marybeloved,
It is not unusual for people to be misunderstood on these forums and their words misrepresented. Sometimes people come in on part of a conversation and miss the point of what one was getting at. And sometimes we forget what was said in the original post and have to go back and read it again. I think most of us have been through your frustration at being misunderstood at one time or another.

 

[Hmgbrd]

Scusi…Isn’t this behavior commonly what is known as the “Judas Shuffle”? In other words leaving mass early immediately after communion and before the final blessing without a good reason to do so?

 

[Cristiano]

Scusi…Isn’t this behavior commonly what is known as the “Judas Shuffle”? In other words leaving mass early immediately after communion and before the final blessing without a good reason to do so?

I think that the we do not know what the good reason to leave is about. I personally find it harsh and uncharitable to talk to people about the Juda’s shuffle. I also find it harsh if people leave Mass just after communion if there is not good reason.

Going back to the OP. I would look at two different scenarios:

The first is that the person goes to Saturday Mass and thus meets the Church precept, then the person goes again on Sunday but just because he feels that the precept has already been met he does not feel the moral obligation to participate in the whole liturgy.

The second is that the person goes to Saturday Mass and thus meets the Church precept, then the person goes again on Sunday because he does not “feel” that he as meet his obligation; however, because of having to work on Sunday he can just run in to receive communion and then ran back to work.

The first case in my opinion shows a limited understanding of the complete Liturgy and somehow indifference to it.The second case still in my opinion shows a limited understanding of the precept but it also shows an act of piety that some people would misunderstand and still call it the Juda’s shuffle.

 

[Digitonomy]

Scusi…Isn’t this behavior commonly what is known as the “Judas Shuffle”? In other words leaving mass early immediately after communion and before the final blessing without a good reason to do so?

I associate that phrase with those who felt obligated to be present in the first place. Having fulfilled what they felt was the minimum required, they then take off. I would consider that distinct from what the OP is describing, which is visiting the church and receiving the Eucharist above and beyond any obligation, which was met or will be met at another time.

 

[Hmgbrd]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound uncharitable or harsh. I first heard of the term " Judas Shuffle" on EWTN. I always thought that the people leaving early just didn’t want to stay for the rest of the Mass like the rest of us. Sorry again if it hurt anyone’s feelings.

 

[Marybeloved]

I am still quite confused by this this legal approach that forgets two very essential points. The first appears to be willing avoidance of the proclamation of the Gospel, that appears to heavily affect the interpretation of the idea that in order to receive communion the person must be properly disposed. Proper disposition does not simply mean not to be in a state of mortal sin, and it also starts by receiving the Logos when the Word of God is proclaimed. When I hear this kind of statements of looking at Mass as in only receiving communion I think of St. Bernard (I do not have my reference here with me, I will try to post later tonight) that said that it extremely dangerous for our soul to neglect the Gospel at Mass in order to receive the Eucharist because the two will always go together.

I’m not talking about mass attendance perse, ie: attending only half of it etc- I’m talking about receiving the communion that you know will is being distributed in one, without necessarily intending to take part in one.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m not talking about mass attendance perse, ie: attending only half of it etc- I’m talking about receiving the communion that you know will is being distributed in one, without necessarily intending to take part in one.

Why not just skip communion?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

You are the ones who keep trying to misrepresent what I’m saying.

You are being selective in how you respond. Both Fr David and I have pointed out to you that I have not said this is a sin. You keep implying that this it what I am saying. If you do not want anybody misrepresenting anything please stop accusing me of something that I have not done.

… no one as yet has been able to show to be false or contrary to the law of the church.

If you feel that we are compelled to provide this proof do you not feel morally bound to provide similar proof to support the argument that you are making and which you introduced in to this discussion. You have given a number of links to what amounts to personal opinion. Please offer a papal encyclical, apostolic constitution, instruction from a dicastery of the Holy See, rubrical instructions, etc. that support what you propose.

 

[Marybeloved]

Why not just skip communion?

Why skip it when you want to receive and are not barred?

Remember the question started because I pictured a scenario where you’ve already attended the day’s mass like Sunday/day of obligation, on the previous evening (like Saturday evening) when so authorized by the church, but would like to partake of communion that following morning or evening. So, knowing that you’ve attended the day’s mass already, you head up to the church near communion time, just for communion. I’ve already been answered that a second communion in a day requires mass attendance- I don’t know if that communion on Sunday morning/evening will count as the first communion of the day, which requires no mass attendance, or second communion counting Saturday evening, in which case mass attendance is required.

The debate about daily mass started because I compared the masses after one has fulfilled the obligation to the weekday masses where one has no obligation to attend and which I know for a fact that many leave right after communion.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

… and which I know for a fact that many leave right after communion.

I still do not grasp why you would think that this is acceptable behaviour.

People would not attempt to leave work earlier than their prescribed finish time. If they do they run a very high risk of disciplinary action and/or loss of pay.

If someone invites us to dinner we don’t leave immediately after we have finished the last course. That would be considered very rude. People with good manners would just not do this.

I can’t understand why people feel that it’s OK to depart from Mass straight after receiving Holy Communion. They wouldn’t do what I have described above. So why do they behave in this way as Mass? Why don’t they remain until after the entire Mass is concluded? It seems to me that they place Mass very low on their list of priorities. They don’t seem to grasp just what the Mass is.

 

[Marybeloved]

If you feel that we are compelled to provide this proof do you not feel morally bound to provide similar proof to support the argument that you are making and which you introduced in to this discussion. You have given a number of links to what amounts to personal opinion. Please offer a papal encyclical, apostolic constitution, instruction from a dicastery of the Holy See, rubrical instructions, etc. that support what you propose.

Look, my friend- I’m obviously no expert on church law or I wouldn’t have inquired about the original question here. That’s why I look for answers from those orthodox Catholics who have studied what I have not. They say that it’s not wrong, and their reasoning fits well with what I already know that the church decrees on these matters:

That I am obligated to attend mass on Sunday or Holy day of obligation
That it is good and recommended to attend daily mass, but failure to do so carries no sin.
That mortal sin bars you from receiving communion, so that when I commit one (like arrive too late to Sunday mass/day of obligation without good reason or opportunity to correct it by attending another mass that day) I will be guilty of mortal sin an cannot receive.
That not attending daily mass carries not even a venial sin, so that if I walk into church at communion and receive and intend to leave right after, nothing in the church’s teaching or Law prevents me from doing so.

My Q: I consider based on this reasoning of the church’s laws that nothing bars a person who goes **just **to receive communion at daily mass, from so receiving. You’re saying they shouldn’t. Surely, it is you to provide the law/teaching that bars that person or forbids what you are insisting that you are not labeling sin, yet should not be done. If it’s not sinful, nor barred by any law of the church- why shouldn’t a person do it?

It’s true that you have not called it sin, but you can categorize something as such whether or not you explicitly call it so- Otherwise, why are we having this debate? If you do not consider it wrong, why argue that it should not be done? Insisting that something should not be done is calling it bad or sinful whether or not you use the word “sin”. Sin is the only true wrong in God’s eyes- So if it is not sin, tell me why is it bad to do it…?

Peace.

 

[Marybeloved]

I still do not grasp why you would think that this is acceptable behaviour.

People would not attempt to leave work earlier than their prescribed finish time. If they do they run a very high risk of disciplinary action and/or loss of pay.

If someone invites us to dinner we don’t leave immediately after we have finished the last course. That would be considered very rude. People with good manners would just not do this.

But none of these analogies work because they all carry obligations, when the situation I’m describing does not! You say disciplinary action- that makes it more akin to Sunday mass than Wednesday mass! Imagine if official workdays end on Friday evening, but people tend to go to the office on the Weekend to finish off work or arrange their next week at work. What if you went into the office Saturday/Sunday morning just to file something for a minute and left at 10.00 am, when others were still working on their work to lunch hour or even later? Would it carry disciplinary action? Does your staying only a short time mean that it is better not to show up at the office on Saturday/Sunday at all and that those who never showed up at all that Saturday/Sunday are actually doing something better than you?

Peace.

 

[nicolep]

But none of these analogies work because they all carry obligations, when the situation I’m describing does not! You say disciplinary action- that makes it more akin to Sunday mass than Wednesday mass! Imagine if official workdays end on Friday evening, but people tend to go to the office on the Weekend to finish off work or arrange their next week at work. What if you went into the office Saturday/Sunday morning just to file something for a minute and left at 10.00 am, when others were still working on their work to lunch hour or even later? Would it carry disciplinary action? Does your staying only a short time mean that it is better not to show up at the office on Saturday/Sunday at all and that those who never showed up at all that Saturday/Sunday are actually doing something better than you?

Peace.

While work does carry an obligation, there isn’t one for the dinner analogy. There is no obligation to stay other than self-imposed decent behavior.

There is nothing in Church law that says one can’t receive Holy Communion and leave (provided it is the first time one has received that day).

The only reason this conversation is still going on is because a lot of us (myself included) cannot understand why anyone would do such a thing without just reason. It’s rude and disrespectful.

 

[Marybeloved]

While work does carry an obligation, there isn’t one for the dinner analogy. There is no obligation to stay other than self-imposed decent behavior.

There is nothing in Church law that says one can’t receive Holy Communion and leave (provided it is the first time one has received that day).

The only reason this conversation is still going on is because a lot of us (myself included) cannot understand why anyone would do such a thing without just reason. It’s rude and disrespectful.

The analogy says that you’ve been invited to a dinner which you have accepted. That actually does carry an obligation. And the reason is what I gave earlier in my question, if you have already fulfilled the obligation but would still like to participate in communion that 24 hour day.

PS- I only gave that daily mass practice as a precedent for what I was asking- about Sunday communion when you’ve already fulfilled the obligation. I don’t do it myself (I have never intentionally attended daily mass for communion only or left after without a reason).

Peace.

 

[nicolep]

The analogy says that you’ve been invited to a dinner which you have accepted. That actually does carry an obligation.

How does it carry an obligation? Does the invitation state in law that one must remain a certain amount of time after eating said dinner? Where are the dinner invitation experts asserting their opinion that is the case?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

But none of these analogies work because they all carry obligations …

While work does carry an obligation, there isn’t one for the dinner analogy. There is no obligation to stay other than self-imposed decent behavior.

Therein lies the crux of the problem: obligation. If you only do the bare minimum that the Church requires because you are obliged then there’s a lack of desire to do the proper thing.

That is why the dinner analogy does work so well. We seem to find it necessary to behave socially correct at such an event. Where is the same decency extended to God?

Going to Mass shouldn’t be about fulfilling an obligation and only doing the absolute bare minimum required. Mass should be about wanting to go and to worship God. It’s not about leaving right after Holy Communion because the Church might permit that. It’s about showing the same, or preferably, even greater respect to God than to the dinner host. Arrive on time for Mass. Stay for the entire Mass. Leave after Mass is over and you have given thanks to God.

If you see it as a matter of mere obligation then I don’t think we can get even close to any sort of agreement.

 

[Marybeloved]

How does it carry an obligation? Does the invitation state in law that one must remain a certain amount of time after eating said dinner? Where are the dinner invitation experts asserting their opinion that is the case?

I’m sorry, but there are customary laws everywhere that are not the civil laws of the land and which carry real consequence in one’s social circles. For example, in some places it’s very bad to leave a wedding before the bride & groom go off, I attended one where I was shocked that people left right after a bride was unveiled before the community and only close friends remained afterward (it was an arabic/swahili wedding). In my own community, such a thing would be bad with a capital B-A-D. Common law itself is a form of codification of customs; civil law is not the only real “law” governing human society.

Peace.

 

[nicolep]

The analogy says that you’ve been invited to a dinner which you have accepted. That actually does carry an obligation. And the reason is what I gave earlier in my question, if you have already fulfilled the obligation but would still like to participate in communion that 24 hour day.

PS- I only gave that daily mass practice as a precedent for what I was asking- about Sunday communion when you’ve already fulfilled the obligation. I don’t do it myself (I have never intentionally attended daily mass for communion only or left after without a reason).

Peace.

I see you edited your post after I responded. I get what you’re saying and why. It seems you’re focusing on a very legalistic view while others are giving you emotional reasons it’s wrong.

Still, the question has been asked and answered.

 

[nicolep]

I’m sorry, but there are customary laws everywhere that are not the civil laws of the land and which carry real consequence in one’s social circles. For example, in some places it’s very bad to leave a wedding before the bride & groom go off, I attended one where I was shocked that people left right after a bride was unveiled before the community and only close friends remained afterward (it was an arabic/swahili wedding). In my own community, such a thing would be bad with a capital B-A-D. Common law itself is a form of codification of customs; civil law is not the only real “law” governing human society.

Peace.

No, we’re talking about legal reasons here. Not social customs. If we were talking social customs, the thread would have lasted about three posts. It’s socially unacceptable to do what you’re describing.

 

[Marybeloved]

Therein lies the crux of the problem: obligation. If you only do the bare minimum that the Church requires because you are obliged then there’s a lack of desire to do the proper thing.

That is why the dinner analogy does work so well. We seem to find it necessary to behave socially correct at such an event. Where is the same decency extended to God?

Going to Mass shouldn’t be about fulfilling an obligation and only doing the absolute bare minimum required. Mass should be about wanting to go and to worship God. It’s not about leaving right after Holy Communion because the Church might permit that. It’s about showing the same, or preferably, even greater respect to God than to the dinner host. Arrive on time for Mass. Stay for the entire Mass. Leave after Mass is over and you have given thanks to God.

If you see it as a matter of mere obligation then I don’t think we can get even close to any sort of agreement.

I do understand what you’re saying my friend, and I do fully accept and appreciate it because it is true.

But please remember that I am not looking for a way/excuse to leave mass after communion in daily mass or I would already be doing this- I don’t. Whenever I attend daily mass, I try very hard to reach the church before the mass starts in order to have a few minutes before our Lord who is usually exposed in the monstrance on the alter on weekdays, and I stay for the last song after the Priest has left. I just wanted to know about the practice only on Sundays, because I like going to the Saturday evening mass, wanted to know if I on Sunday, I could just go for communion only and come home, having attending mass already that previous Saturday evening.