Sorry about that, but why would efiminate men saying how cute your baby was offend you. would you rather them say your baby was ugly? Also, effeminate doesn’t equal gay. Trust me, I’ve made that mistake before. I’ve even been bullied and called gay in hs just because I wasn’t mr macho man and did plays and stuff in school, so I hate stereotypes. However, if someone was openly gay, than by all means don’t associate with themShe said a homosexual WHO does that, not any homosexual.
And it totally makes a difference: I was extremely disturbed when a very effeminate manager at a store went *on and on *about how cute my toddler son was to another effeminate employee.
And I did not return to that store for several years.
I said, the one went on and on. It was not just, Oh, cute kid! He made *no *mention of my daughters, who were also right there, just went on and on about my son, who was about 4.Sorry about that, but why would efiminate men saying how cute your baby was offend you. would you rather them say your baby was ugly? Also, effeminate doesn’t equal gay. Trust me, I’ve made that mistake before. I’ve even been bullied and called gay in hs just because I wasn’t mr macho man and did plays and stuff in school, so I hate stereotypes. However, if someone was openly gay, than by all means don’t associate with them
The discrimination that is most just is that which chooses the best person for the job. If a job has an entrance test and I hire the person with the highest score, I have discriminated against those who score lower. But that type of discrimination is very just.What discrimination is just?
In half of the OPs scenario, I agree. I can’t think of any just way that a business owner would justly discriminate against someone’s patronage of a business on the basis of sexual orientation.Corki, I stand corrected, only 29 of the 50 states have anti-discrimination laws designed to protect sexual orientation, still over half. Also, I agree with you, obviously, that the Catechism is an essential tool to acting out our faith. And I also agree with your “just discrimination” caveat as well, however as I will elaborate on, I do not feel the OP presented a “just discrimination” scenerio.
-Paul
You seem to be confusing discrimination with discernmentThe discrimination that is most just is that which chooses the best person for the job. If a job has an entrance test and I hire the person with the highest score, I have discriminated against those who score lower. But that type of discrimination is very just.
The opposite of discrimination isn’t fairness; the opposite of discrimination is random choices.
No, discrimination is simply making choices based on some element of information where the chooser places different values on some characteristic(s). Discernment is just making choices.You seem to be confusing discrimination with discernment
I agree wholeheartedly with that assesment. You’ll get no complaint from me about that. The thing that surprises and upsets me about this thread is how quickly some have concluded that all homosexuals are flamboyantly flaunting their sexuality. And while I agree some do, it is UNjust to paint them all with a broad brush. The OP’s hypothetical made no mention of behavior, simply the fact that someone is homosexual. As I stated, on the cusp of the Year of Faith and the New Evangelization, we should focus on evangelizing those wayward brothers and sisters, not pushing them away. God bless.In half of the OPs scenario, I agree. I can’t think of any just way that a business owner would justly discriminate against someone’s patronage of a business on the basis of sexual orientation.
In the employment half of the scenario, we just don’t have enough information. Is the person flaunting a “gay” lifestyle? If so, it would not be unjust to choose someone else if the business owner was, for example, running a Catholic bookstore or a business catering to small children. It would be unjust to refuse to hire someone simply based on orientation.
I think that most of the posters here have been very careful to qualify their statements with a big IF with regard to the employees throwing their lifestyle out for the world to see. In the OPs scenario, you could ask, how does the business owner know about the applicant sexual orientation? There must be something the applicant did or said to give the employer this information.I agree wholeheartedly with that assesment. You’ll get no complaint from me about that. The thing that surprises and upsets me about this thread is how quickly some have concluded that all homosexuals are flamboyantly flaunting their sexuality. And while I agree some do, it is UNjust to paint them all with a broad brush. The OP’s hypothetical made no mention of behavior, simply the fact that someone is homosexual.
-Paul
Maybe it’s just the way I read it, regardless, I stand by my underlying point. If anything, the whole homosexual and same-sex “marriage” debate that has flared up recently, along with the unconscionable HHS Mandate has acted as further proof that the United States is mission territory again, and evangelization is a must. We as the laity are on the front lines of that effort and can do much more with lovingly and compassionately living out the Gospel than anything else. God bless.I think that most of the posters here have been very careful to qualify their statements with a big IF with regard to the employees throwing their lifestyle out for the world to see. In the OPs scenario, you could ask, how does the business owner know about the applicant sexual orientation? There must be something the applicant did or said to give the employer this information.
How does one “flaunt” one’s lifestyle? I work with gay people…I ask them what did they do this week end? They and their partner went to a dinner and movie or went dancing…is that “flaunting” one’s lifestyle?I agree wholeheartedly with that assesment. You’ll get no complaint from me about that. The thing that surprises and upsets me about this thread is how quickly some have concluded that all homosexuals are flamboyantly flaunting their sexuality. And while I agree some do, it is UNjust to paint them all with a broad brush. The OP’s hypothetical made no mention of behavior, simply the fact that someone is homosexual. As I stated, on the cusp of the Year of Faith and the New Evangelization, we should focus on evangelizing those wayward brothers and sisters, not pushing them away. God bless.
-Paul
You do know that homosexuality and pedophilia are two different things? And that most pedophiles are attracted to the age and not the sex of their victims?I said, the one went on and on. It was not just, Oh, cute kid! He made *no *mention of my daughters, who were also right there, just went on and on about my son, who was about 4.
Americans tend to think of certain men who are what Europeans would call elegant as effeminate, but that’s not what I am talking about. This guy could have been in the dictionary as an illustration for the word, as if he were putting it on on purpose: high pitched voice, flapping hands, all of that.
Quite frankly, it made me nervous for my son’s safety, that’s why I didn’t go back to that store.
Or who mention that they skipped Mass last weekend, or haven’t been to Confession in three years, or don’t believe in Transubstantiation but go to Communion anyway . . . .How does one “flaunt” one’s lifestyle? I work with gay people…I ask them what did they do this week end? They and their partner went to a dinner and movie or went dancing…is that “flaunting” one’s lifestyle?
Seems what most her want is for every gay person to live a life of secrecy…lies…never discuss their personal lives in the work place…even if asked…and even if a not so “out” gay or lesbian person was to let it 'slip" that they and their partner were going on vacation together…or went to dinner an a movie…some seem to think if they were working for a conservative religious employer they should be terminated for “flaunting” their lifestyle…yet I wonder how the “straight” men and women who went out clubbing on the week-ends and then bragged of their conquests and one night stands…or how they and their girlfriend or boyfriend went away for the week-end to a bed and breakfast or went out and bought a new bed for the apartment they shared would fare?
I have my suspicions that a blind eye would be turned by the “conservative religious” employer…I doubt he’d have too many people working for him if he terminated each and every one of his employees who “flaunted” their “lifestyle”…interesting indeed.
That is a very good point, Publisher. I think we’re largely on the same page and agree mostly on this topic. I obviously cannot tell the ‘tone’ of your message, so I just thought it might be helpful to point out that I think we are making similar points here.How does one “flaunt” one’s lifestyle? I work with gay people…I ask them what did they do this week end? They and their partner went to a dinner and movie or went dancing…is that “flaunting” one’s lifestyle?
Seems what most her want is for every gay person to live a life of secrecy…lies…never discuss their personal lives in the work place…even if asked…and even if a not so “out” gay or lesbian person was to let it 'slip" that they and their partner were going on vacation together…or went to dinner an a movie…some seem to think if they were working for a conservative religious employer they should be terminated for “flaunting” their lifestyle…yet I wonder how the “straight” men and women who went out clubbing on the week-ends and then bragged of their conquests and one night stands…or how they and their girlfriend or boyfriend went away for the week-end to a bed and breakfast or went out and bought a new bed for the apartment they shared would fare?
I have my suspicions that a blind eye would be turned by the “conservative religious” employer…I doubt he’d have too many people working for him if he terminated each and every one of his employees who “flaunted” their “lifestyle”…interesting indeed.
The United States is missionary territory alright, and we are being aggressively evangelized by gays and their allies who want to preach their message of one-sided tolerance and immoral love. We will be forced to accept their behavior as part of society or reap the consequences. Bullying is a bad thing if it’s directed at GLBTQ people. It’s an acceptable tactic if you’re dealing with Christians or conservatives. Hate is not a family value, unless it’s directed at the Church.Maybe it’s just the way I read it, regardless, I stand by my underlying point. If anything, the whole homosexual and same-sex “marriage” debate that has flared up recently, along with the unconscionable HHS Mandate has acted as further proof that the United States is mission territory again, and evangelization is a must. We as the laity are on the front lines of that effort and can do much more with lovingly and compassionately living out the Gospel than anything else. God bless.
-Paul
That is the new rule.Why is it that so many people think when someone starts a business they lose all their rights and now have to do what everyone else says?
The highest score does not always translate to the best performer. One can make the argument that you exclude for personal wealth gain the less fortunate.The discrimination that is most just is that which chooses the best person for the job. If a job has an entrance test and I hire the person with the highest score, I have discriminated against those who score lower. But that type of discrimination is very just.
The opposite of discrimination isn’t fairness; the opposite of discrimination is random choices.
A chaste SSA person applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? A recovering alcoholic applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? A recovering drug used applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? etc…I agree wholeheartedly with that assesment. You’ll get no complaint from me about that. The thing that surprises and upsets me about this thread is how quickly some have concluded that all homosexuals are flamboyantly flaunting their sexuality. And while I agree some do, it is UNjust to paint them all with a broad brush. The OP’s hypothetical made no mention of behavior, simply the fact that someone is homosexual. As I stated, on the cusp of the Year of Faith and the New Evangelization, we should focus on evangelizing those wayward brothers and sisters, not pushing them away. God bless.
-Paul
Intentions need always be considered.Or who mention that they skipped Mass last weekend, or haven’t been to Confession in three years, or don’t believe in Transubstantiation but go to Communion anyway . . . .
Exactly. The OP’s premise did not provide enough information to really answer the question. The point is one cannot paint the whole SSA and homosexual community with a broad brush. I feel that an awful lot of that has been going on in the thread. And regardless, these people need evangelization and prayers, not shunning. One of my previous posts goes into my feeling on that a great deal more, I believe on page 4.A chaste SSA person applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? A recovering alcoholic applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? A recovering drug used applies - how would anyone know of their personal struggle? etc…
I’m sorry, that is just plain paranoid thinking IMHO. You could extrapolate that in a straight unmarried employee may want to work for you so he could get partner benefits for his straight cohabitating partner. Or an unmarried femaile wanting you to provide contraceptive coverageEmployers go onto to facebook right now to determine suitablilty for hire. An employer has a right and a duty to use discretion for the sake of the other employees.
Employees ARE using facebook more and more. That should be a warning to ALL potential employees, not just gay ones.
If you are a Catholic business owner setting the behavior bar high forces you too make decisions.
You are still responsible for following the hiring laws of your state. If ANY potential employee who is not chosen for a position asks or wishes to sue you, the burden of proof is on the owner to show that no laws were broken in the hiring practice
One other point -what if this is a gay activist setting his sights on your business to change your policies so he can get partner benefits?