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buffalo
Guest
#96 and 98 - I got that you were claiming they don’t talk about it.
Is it okay for a catholic businessman to discriminate against gays?
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buffalo
Guest
I reserve the right to render judgement and consult my conscience as I see fit.
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Publisher
Guest
No, not at all…I had no intention of implying that…and don’t see a phrase or statement to even hint that I was implying that.
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buffalo
Guest
OK - sorry - we can move on.No, not at all…I had no intention of implying that…and don’t see a phrase or statement to even hint that I was implying that.
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Publisher
Guest
As I have gathered from some of the posts…correct me if I am wrong…but you would be willing to terminate an “out” gay person…not a “flamboyant” gay person…but a gay person who didn’t hide the fact they had a partner and shared a life together…just wondering…and you don’t have to answer of course…haven’t got a, excuse the unintentional pun…straight answer from anyone.
I’m assuming, and we all know what happens when we assume…just the very fact that it is known…and perhaps even suspected…some are of the opinion that an “not-flamboyant-gay person-with-a-partner” who even shares their relationship status is grounds for dismissal in such a company run by one referenced by the OP.
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Newbie2
Guest
Nope and as a private businessperson you have the right to refuse business to anyone at any time for any reason.
Another way to say the same thing is that unfair discrimination is wrong. We use discrimination every day in the choices we make, and there is nothing wrong with making choices based on a particular mindset or experience, as long as it is fair to others.
But to address the OP; unless a business was supporting or helping promote homosexual activity (i.e. a print shop printing posters for a big bash at a gay bar, a “gay” wedding, etc.), then providing a service to homosexual individuals is a morally neutral action.
Employment is a bit different. If one’s business might be negatively affected by, for example, a flamboyant gay person at the counter or wherever, then the argument could be made that he or she isn’t the best person for the job. All other things being equal, not hiring someone simply based on their sexual preference would not seem to fit within Christian morals.
If a gay person were to be discussion their partner and private information about his or her bedroom habits, they should be treated as anyone in a heterosexual relationship who discusses same; it’s all inappropriate in the workplace.
Company event where a spouse or significant other are invited could be a bit tricky…if unmarried significant others are invited…I’d think all significant others should be invited. If only spouses are invited, if in a state where same sex “marriages” are sanctioned, there could be a legal issue. Morally…perhaps a different story. I’d think if it were likely to cause an issue, then such events should not be held.
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buffalo
Guest
\As I have gathered from some of the posts…correct me if I am wrong…but you would be willing to terminate an “out” gay person…not a “flamboyant” gay person…but a gay person who didn’t hide the fact they had a partner and shared a life together…just wondering…and you don’t have to answer of course…haven’t got a, excuse the unintentional pun…straight answer from anyone.
I’m assuming, and we all know what happens when we assume…just the very fact that it is known…and perhaps even suspected…some are of the opinion that an “not-flamboyant-gay person-with-a-partner” who even shares their relationship status is grounds for dismissal in such a company run by one referenced by the OP.
Since this is an intrinsic evil and very severe, (divine law superscedes human law) and their intentions were not to change, I would have to give it serious consideration.
Future intentions are key.
Could I do it? - not yet sure.
Remember:
Love is not tolerance
BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.
Code:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG *Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it. **The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Oh MY! Where do you work?? I have *never *heard conversations like that at work. I have worked with gay people, unmarried straight people, married staright people and have never once heard about anything even remotely resembling the conversations you describe.I am shocked myself at how the men and women in the office I work in speak of their sexual exploits at lunch and breaks…that’s not a “homosexual” oddity…if I quit my job any time someone spoke of their sex lives…the men in the office that go "hoggin’ "…or the three ways they engage in with two or more women…or how they invite the women they meet out to their van or car for a “quickie” when they’re clubbing…I’d have no job.
My question was concerning friend Francis seeming assertion that discussing one’s sex life for a gay person is simply speaking about what they and their partner did on a week-end excursion…I wasn’t addrssing the sexualy explicit talk that goes on it the office by straight people…so not sure how your post addresses my question to Francis.
More to your original question. I have worked with openly gay people who talked about going to dinner with their partner, etc on the weekend. I did not consider that “sexual”. I have traveled for work with both gay people and single (and married) straight people and never once had anyone discuss out of town “hookups” or anything along those lines.
I think this gets back more to the idea of people understanding how to behave in a professional environment than it does to all gays being sexually active or advertising the “lifestyle”.
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Publisher
Guest
I work with contractors and general contractors…it tends to be a “rough” crowd…for the most part made up of people from low income families who found that the trades still afford a decent wage. I have 12 women in my office…every one of them is divorced and remarried…several times…or living with someone…the men never finished college and kind of “fell” into the business…some of them being required by law enfocement to work or go to jail…and for one reason or another have found themslves in one of the trades or trade support companies.
It was a shock to me some 25-30 years ago to come into the trades after being involved with church work for a decade…then hospice…and finally the trades…I didn’t know women spoke like drunk sailors but they do. The trades are very…jaded…and anyone working for them has to have “thick skin”. There have been a few women who filed sexual harrassment suits against their employers…and are forever “black balled” from ever working in the trades again…it takes a “thick skin”.
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Publisher
Guest
Thank you for the direct answer friend.
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buffalo
Guest
Thinking about it more - what if an abortionist applied for a job and he voiced that he would continue to promote and perform them on a limited basis?
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Publisher
Guest
Well…my first thought would be the economy has fallen on very tough times if a MD was applying for a job at the construction support company I am emplyed with…if he chose to “moon light” at Planned Parenthood, that is his business…as long as he fulfills the job requirements he has working for me, his “moonlighting” doesn’t reall effect me…I do not police the perceived morality or morality of those that work fom me.
Friend Francis didn’t even want to be asked questions concerning her week-end by co-workers as it was an infringement on her privacy…I would think that an MD who had fallen on hard times so he had to work two jobs would be given the same courtesey.
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buffalo
Guest
Well you know abortionists are falling on hard times…Well…my first thought would be the economy has fallen on very tough times if a MD was applying for a job at the construction support company I am emplyed with…if he chose to “moon light” at Planned Parenthood, that is his business…as long as he fulfills the job requirements he has working for me, his “moonlighting” doesn’t reall effect me…I do not police the perceived morality or morality of those that work fom me.
Friend Francis didn’t even want to be asked questions concerning her week-end by co-workers as it was an infringement on her privacy…I would think that an MD who had fallen on hard times so he had to work two jobs would be given the same courtesey.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
OK, that makes sense. Really a very different group than the one I worked with. I will say that when I worked for a large telco, we had to go through mandatory anti-discrimination and harrasement training. Some of the scenarios were very similar to what you describe, because the guys working in cable tunnels and other similar tasks had the same outlook on life as your co-workers.
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St_Francis
Guest
Why does this bother you so much?!?!?Well…my first thought would be the economy has fallen on very tough times if a MD was applying for a job at the construction support company I am emplyed with…if he chose to “moon light” at Planned Parenthood, that is his business…as long as he fulfills the job requirements he has working for me, his “moonlighting” doesn’t reall effect me…I do not police the perceived morality or morality of those that work fom me.
Friend Francis didn’t even want to be asked questions concerning her week-end by co-workers as it was an infringement on her privacy…I would think that an MD who had fallen on hard times so he had to work two jobs would be given the same courtesey.
Homosexuals complain that they have to keep their lives hidden–guess what! Under what I would have, *everyone *would keep their private business *private, *right?
You know, people don’t choose their co-workers. They are pretty much stuck with them, and the only way they can get away from their co-workers is to quit their job! So we should make it as easy as possibly for te employees by maintaining a professional demeanor and allowing the employees to have their privacy and not feel pressure to divulge private information, nor forced to hear it from others.
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Publisher
Guest
It doesn’t “bother” me in the least.
If a person who works for a company in the service industry exhibited “anti-social” (for lack of a better term) behavior by rejecting any overture of his/her customers and/or co-workers to build an interoffice dynamic where all concerned were comfortable with one another…I don’t think that “very private” person would work well in this social dynamic where it is important for the well being of office morale and business that employees “get along” with one another…the “anti-social” person would most likly be dismissed for being disruptive to the morale of the company AND bad for business.
It’s just a reality we have in many if not most businesses.
I rarely go out with my co-workers…and have never had any of them…other than my boss and his significant other who is co-owner(man and woman in case anyone is curios) over to my house once for a bbq…it’s part of our social-psycho dynamic of business operations.
My boss isn’t married to his significant other of over 12 years…would be a “bad business move” on my part to criticize his/her living arrangements.
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Corki
Guest
Exactly! So if an employer chooses the applicant that is the best fit, he discriminates against those who are less perfect fits. Whether the criteria is test scores, organizational fit or what degree you have, if the employer sets a criteria to make his choice he is discriminating. It’s neither unfair nor unjust discrimination but it IS discrimination.
Legally, it is tricky. The one affirmative defense against **illegal **discrimination is to hire the most qualified person for the job. If an employer wants to use “fit” as a qualifier, it is wise to find a way to judge and document how “fit” is determined.
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buffalo
Guest
Now here is a guy fired for his behavior -
Viral video of man picking on Chick-fil-A worker gets him fired
People on both sides of the Chick-fil-A debate seemed to agree that a Tucson man who made a viral video belittling a patient restaurant worker acted like a sanctimonious jerk, even his boss – make that ex-boss.
Adam Smith, who posted an online video of himself going through a Chick-fil-A drive-thru and ordering only the free water, was canned from his gig as chief financial officer of Vante, a Tucson medical manufacturing company, after the video made the rounds.
“Chick-fil-A is a hateful company,” Smith tells the employee. "I don’t know how you sleep at night,” Smith adds at another point. This is a horrible corporation with horrible values.”
After the employee, who never loses her composure, wishes Smith a nice day, he responds “I will. I just did something really good. I feel purposeful.”
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22WvFXCoI
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22Wv66yQI
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22WuoVbDS
Viral video of man picking on Chick-fil-A worker gets him fired
People on both sides of the Chick-fil-A debate seemed to agree that a Tucson man who made a viral video belittling a patient restaurant worker acted like a sanctimonious jerk, even his boss – make that ex-boss.
Adam Smith, who posted an online video of himself going through a Chick-fil-A drive-thru and ordering only the free water, was canned from his gig as chief financial officer of Vante, a Tucson medical manufacturing company, after the video made the rounds.
“Chick-fil-A is a hateful company,” Smith tells the employee. "I don’t know how you sleep at night,” Smith adds at another point. This is a horrible corporation with horrible values.”
After the employee, who never loses her composure, wishes Smith a nice day, he responds “I will. I just did something really good. I feel purposeful.”
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22WvFXCoI
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22Wv66yQI
Read more: foxnews.com/us/2012/08/03/viral-video-man-picking-on-chick-fil-worker-gets-him-fired/#ixzz22WuoVbDS
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Bill_Martin
Guest
Well, that was rather stupid of him.
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buffalo
Guest
Following the last few pages of posts regarding hiring, should this man have been fired for his behavior?
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