Is it okay that the Catholic church do things that are unbiblical? How to defend it?

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Note that the Catholic Church was doing things that were unbiblical from the very beginning

Some examples:

baptizing persons into Christ…as Jesus instructed…

believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God

believing that Jesus Christ did in fact rise from the dead…

All these things were being done by the early Church - BEFORE A SINGE PAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN.

They were then at that time: unbiblical.

So can doing things not in noted in Bible be ok? Yes certainly.
 
Just adding a few thoughts from my limited experience and knowledge. Sometimes it is because people do not understand and then apply their own (or someone else’s) take on what they see, instead of asking. For example, they see a catholic kneeling in front of a statue in prayer and assume the person is worshiping the statue and praying to a dead person. We know that to pray means to ask - it is not worship (full stop) and only our bodies die, so a soul in Heaven is alive and still part of the Body of Christ.

Also there are the usual longstanding anti-Catholic myths which have been debunked by Historians but are still taken as Gospel to the extent that they are still taught in schools. I can’t really go much further on this as I have only reached Chapter 4 of “Bearing False Witness - Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History” by Robert Stark (who is a Protestant).
 
Actually, use of holy water is Biblical. Can’t get more Biblical than using it in the Temple.

The interesting thing is that “holy water” is actually the Masoretic reading, and that the Targum interprets this as being water taken from the “Brazen Sea” or “Molten Sea,” ie, that big huge basin that represented the Ocean in the Temple’s microcosm of Heaven and all Creation, and which the priests used for ritually washing themselves.

In the Book of Revelation, we see the Heavenly version: the “Glassy Sea” that lay before God’s Throne. The Glassy Sea is associated by the Fathers with the waters of Baptism, so it’s a nice little circle of symbolism.

Now, associating holy water with Christian Baptism, and using it as both a sacramental and a reminder of Baptism – that’s a Christian adaptation. But it’s a deeply Biblical adaptation, drawn from both the OT and NT.
 
The use of a monstrance for Eucharistic exposition (ie, a form of Eucharistic adoration where you can actually see the Host “exposed to view”) is also very Biblical.
“And I will pour out upon the House of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace, and of prayers. And they shall look upon Me, Whom they have pierced.”
And they shall mourn for Him as one mourns for an only son, and they shall grieve over Him, as the manner is to grieve for the death of the firstborn.
(Zechariah 12:10)
And again, another Scripture says: “They will look on the One they have pierced.”
(John 19:37)
Behold! He comes upon the clouds. And every eye shall see Him, and also those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth shall bewail themselves because of Him. Even so. Amen.
(Revelation 1:7)
Same thing for crucifixes. The monstrance and the crucifix foreshadow Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of time, when “every eye shall see Him.”

It also is a response to St. John the Baptist’s cry:
“Behold the Lamb of God! Behold Him who takes away the sin of the world!”
(John 1:29)
John repeated the cry later, which led to St. Andrew becoming the first of the Twelve Apostles to come follow Jesus:
The next day again John stood there, along with two of his disciples. And beholding Jesus walking, he says, “Behold the Lamb of God!”
And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus…
And Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who had heard it from John, and followed Him.
(John 1:35-37, 40)
The same story has Jesus invite Andrew and the other guy to come along to where He was staying, by saying, “Come and see.”

So yuppers, it’s Biblical.
 
Note that the Catholic Church was doing things that were unbiblical from the very beginning

Some examples:

baptizing persons into Christ…as Jesus instructed…

believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God

believing that Jesus Christ did in fact rise from the dead…

All these things were being done by the early Church - BEFORE A SINGE PAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN.

They were then at that time: unbiblical.

So can doing things not in noted in Bible be ok? Yes certainly.
👍
 
The problem with it is the misunderstanding of sola scriptura that everyone has. You will see Catholics say, “But the Bible says that sola scriptura is null and void…” despite how we never said “scripture alone”! (Yes, that’s the literal translation, but it is extremely compacted.)

Sola scriptura is a complex doctrine. It does not mean “without Tradition,” or “without the Holy Spirit,” or anything. It is merely one means to an end. It is not “the only way to view Christianity” and “the only means by which we derive everything.” We use forms of Tradition every time we invoke the Trinity, do the sign of the cross, etc.

Luther never claimed that, Calvin never claimed that, Huldrych never claimed that, Wesley actually modified it into prima scriptura, etc.

Especially with sola scriptura being the most critiqued Protestant doctrine on CAF, it should be well-understood and reviewed before anyone else gives a serious thought about it.
 
Some people seems to be confident that if the Catholic teaching is not in the Bible, then it’s immediately wrong.

It’s common that some people say that the CC has unbiblical practices. But, how do the CC properly explain that it’s okay?

From some research in Catholic internet sources, I know already that not everything needed to know about Christianity is written in the Bible, some are passed on orally and some are traditions passed on by the apostles, they can be written in other books. There is history that the New Testament is written by Catholics after the ascent of Jesus, and generations later, the real Bible books are differentiated from the fakes first by the Catholics especially the New Testament that exactly has same books in both Catholic and Protestant Bibles of today. Written material is easily faked while a group of people around the world having one belief from a lineage is not easily faked like the CC. It’s an example of the importance of Catholic lineage because nobody else can confirm the authenticity of the real scriptures from an intelligent source. The clergy has succession of being chosen as keepers of Christianity beginning from Jesus and the apostles so It also gave them authority to give new teachings just like Biblical apostles do because they are the new apostles(is this right?). That’s my explanation for now, I hope Catholics here can help me.
The idea that religious doctrine had to be Biblical was actually invented by a man named Marcion of Sinope of the 2nd century A.D./C.E. He was once a Catholic bishop, but Gnostic belief had seduced him. The Gnostics taught that “salvation” was only possible for a select group of people to whom God graced with “life-saving knowledge” or in the Greek, GNOSIS. This GNOSIS could be gathered from study but oddly enough only through study of holy writ.

Marcion agreed, except he believed that if this “select class” taught others what they learned from holy writ, these followers could also be “saved” if the “select” taught them. As holy writ, Marcion created a “rule” (in Greek KANON) for what books in Christianity were filled with GNOSIS. Rejecting all the Hebrew Scriptures, he created a “canon” of scriptures that consisted of an edited version of Luke’s Gospel and some select epistles of Paul. Marcion was reported to have been surprised when he found himself excommunicated by Church authorities. His ideas, supported by devising “proof texts” from his canon was one of the longest surviving heresies in the Church. To some degree it has never left.

Eventually the Church took into consideration the need to set its own rule or canon of Scripture. After the fall of the Second Temple, Judaism had already begun to do the same. By the 4th century the New Testament was set. And although the Church had since its beginning accepted the Septuagint as its library of Hebrew Scriptures, Judaism would not have a set Hebrew canon until the Masoretic Tradition finalized the face of Jewish Scriptures between the 4th and 7th centuries.

While the Bible is authoritative, it is not possible for all doctrines of either Judaism or Christianity to each be Biblical. For instance, the Scripture canon that each accepts is unbiblical. There are no commands in the Mosaic Law stating that a written library of Scriptures should be central to Jewish worship. This is the same with Christianity. Jesus did not tell the Church that reading, studying and basing doctrines upon the Bible are requisites for salvation.

The canon of Scripture was set by religious authorities, Jews and Catholic, authority they each had respectively from their religions. There is no list of what books belong in the Bible, what qualities a book should have, how to determine what is or isn’t inspired of God. All that came from the religious leaders of these two religions. Their decisions are not based on any Scripture.

Marcion’s “proof-texting” still remains popular among many religious movements, especially those that arose from the Second Great Awakening. Beginning in the late 1700s, the Second Great Awakening was an American phenomenon among Protestants that developed into the various groups that are known as NRM or New Religious Movements.

Many of these NRMs adopted the Marcion view that their leadership or members were the restoration of the true Church, and as such they were composed of a “select group” or only ones who were to be saved.

Evidence that they were “select” was the claim that they had special knowledge from God that allowed them to interpret the Bible, as they held the Bible as the ultimate revelation from God and salvation limited to those who could unlock its “secret truths.”

Two of the religions among the NRMs are most noted for this. Jehovah’s Witnesses, which grew from Adventism, is a group that claims that a small number among them, often called the “remnant of 144,000” and now limited to their Governing Body, is the only select group that can decipher life-saving truths found only in the writings of the Bible.

The other group took the idea that salvific truth was limited only to writings so far as to create its own “Bible,” the Mormons, and their “select” has been limited to their prophets, beginning with Joseph Smith. Claiming that one had to have knowledge not only from the Bible but the newly discovered Book of Mormon to be saved, the Gnostic belief that salvation is based on truths that are based on written texts, as if written revelation is superior, still lives on.
 
Some people seems to be confident that if the Catholic teaching is not in the Bible, then it’s immediately wrong.

It’s common that some people say that the CC has unbiblical practices. But, how do the CC properly explain that it’s okay?

From some research in Catholic internet sources, I know already that not everything needed to know about Christianity is written in the Bible, some are passed on orally and some are traditions passed on by the apostles, they can be written in other books. There is history that the New Testament is written by Catholics after the ascent of Jesus, and generations later, the real Bible books are differentiated from the fakes first by the Catholics especially the New Testament that exactly has same books in both Catholic and Protestant Bibles of today. Written material is easily faked while a group of people around the world having one belief from a lineage is not easily faked like the CC. It’s an example of the importance of Catholic lineage because nobody else can confirm the authenticity of the real scriptures from an intelligent source. The clergy has succession of being chosen as keepers of Christianity beginning from Jesus and the apostles so It also gave them authority to give new teachings just like Biblical apostles do because they are the new apostles(is this right?). That’s my explanation for now, I hope Catholics here can help me.
The two sources of the word of God or divine revelation that Christ and the apostles bequeathed to the Church are Holy Scripture and Tradition. Holy Scripture is the written word of God and Tradition is the unwritten word of God. An example of Tradition is infant baptism which the apostles handed on to the Church.
 
Note that the Catholic Church was doing things that were unbiblical from the very beginning

Some examples:

baptizing persons into Christ…as Jesus instructed…

believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God

believing that Jesus Christ did in fact rise from the dead…

All these things were being done by the early Church - BEFORE A SINGE PAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN.

They were then at that time: unbiblical.

So can doing things not in noted in Bible be ok? Yes certainly.
Hi, Bookcat!
…I think you are forgetting a pretty important one: preaching the Gospel!

…why people forget that the Oral Teaching was there prior to the Written is beyond comprehension!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Just adding a few thoughts from my limited experience and knowledge. Sometimes it is because people do not understand and then apply their own (or someone else’s) take on what they see, instead of asking. For example, they see a catholic kneeling in front of a statue in prayer and assume the person is worshiping the statue and praying to a dead person. We know that to pray means to ask - it is not worship (full stop) and only our bodies die, so a soul in Heaven is alive and still part of the Body of Christ.

Also there are the usual longstanding anti-Catholic myths which have been debunked by Historians but are still taken as Gospel to the extent that they are still taught in schools. I can’t really go much further on this as I have only reached Chapter 4 of “Bearing False Witness - Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History” by Robert Stark (who is a Protestant).
Hi, Avila!
…anti-Catholic propaganda is not only well received but readily assimilated by both non-Catholics and anti-Yahweh God agents.

…interestingly enough, though, those who “seek” to “know why” are quick to turn off their “common sense” (reason) the second “Catholic” enters any issue… for instance, as you’ve pointed out, praying the Rosary is an interesting Catholic prayer format that demonstrates the Catholic prayer modus operandi: “pray for us sinners…” (or similar statements) is always the format for addressing/directing a prayer to any Saint–it is seeking intervention from God; it does not explicitly or implicitly implies that Catholics believe that anyone other than God can provide/grant any assistance.

When we pray to God (the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit) we do not ask for God’s intercession; rather, we ask for His Assistance, Mercy, Grace, Power, Forgiveness, Protection, etc.

…and while we praise God for Being Omnipotent and Merciful, we only acknowledge that the Saints can intercede in our behalf for God’s Mercy, Grace, Power. It is always God’s Will that is sought and expected!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
The use of a monstrance for Eucharistic exposition (ie, a form of Eucharistic adoration where you can actually see the Host “exposed to view”) is also very Biblical.

Same thing for crucifixes. The monstrance and the crucifix foreshadow Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of time, when “every eye shall see Him.”

It also is a response to St. John the Baptist’s cry:

John repeated the cry later, which led to St. Andrew becoming the first of the Twelve Apostles to come follow Jesus:

The same story has Jesus invite Andrew and the other guy to come along to where He was staying, by saying, “Come and see.”

So yuppers, it’s Biblical.
…we also Have Exodus 25:30 and Leviticus 24:5-9 which can be seen as a type of Christ: Bread separated and consumed only in the sanctuary.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
The problem with it is the misunderstanding of sola scriptura that everyone has. You will see Catholics say, “But the Bible says that sola scriptura is null and void…” despite how we never said “scripture alone”! (Yes, that’s the literal translation, but it is extremely compacted.)

Sola scriptura is a complex doctrine. It does not mean “without Tradition,” or “without the Holy Spirit,” or anything. It is merely one means to an end. It is not “the only way to view Christianity” and “the only means by which we derive everything.” We use forms of Tradition every time we invoke the Trinity, do the sign of the cross, etc.

Luther never claimed that, Calvin never claimed that, Huldrych never claimed that, Wesley actually modified it into prima scriptura, etc.

Especially with sola scriptura being the most critiqued Protestant doctrine on CAF, it should be well-understood and reviewed before anyone else gives a serious thought about it.
…but even from your own explanation, can you not see the underlined issues?

The fact that there’s a divergence from the Church, those who follow the divergence continue to create their own nuances, restriction, adaptations, and creative principles…

It’s akin to me moving into a property owned by you; at first I am content; soon I begin to displace things I find “not agreeable;” finally, those I bring into the property make changes of their own… we all agree that it is your property but each of us assert our “rights” to make it ours.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Little point in arguing the point since their worship stle is made uo as they go along. At so point just politely tell them the can worship their way and you can continue to worship God’s. Ask them the same question.
 
The problem with it is the misunderstanding of sola scriptura that everyone has. You will see Catholics say, “But the Bible says that sola scriptura is null and void…” despite how we never said “scripture alone”! (Yes, that’s the literal translation, but it is extremely compacted.)

Sola scriptura is a complex doctrine. It does not mean “without Tradition,” or “without the Holy Spirit,” or anything. It is merely one means to an end. It is not “the only way to view Christianity” and “the only means by which we derive everything.” We use forms of Tradition every time we invoke the Trinity, do the sign of the cross, etc.

Luther never claimed that, Calvin never claimed that, Huldrych never claimed that, Wesley actually modified it into prima scriptura, etc.

Especially with sola scriptura being the most critiqued Protestant doctrine on CAF, it should be well-understood and reviewed
before anyone else gives a serious thought about it.This is simply your personal interpretation and many n-Cs and especially those a-Cs who allege unbiblical practices in Catholicism do indeed accept and preach the over simplified concept of Sola Scriptura. It is, in fact, rampant among a wide variety of rank and file n-Cs (a simple internet search or search of YouTube will easily illustrate my point).

Having spent far too many years among n-Cs who preached Sola Scriptura on a regular basis I can attest to that fact.

As for the Protestants you list…it doesn’t matter, since most modern n-Cs are so far removed doctrinally from their roots that they essentially reinvent the doctrinal wheel on a near daily basis. Otherwise there wouldn’t be such a wide diversity of teachings and interpretations of scripture all across what is called “Protestantism”. Your remarks are just indicative of my point because it does not agree with the majority of n-Cs or a-Cs who frequent CAF or whom we Catholics encounter in day to day living.

The fact is that there is no scripture, even in the 73 book Catholic canon, that even implies either Sola Scriptura or your own “Prima scriptura”. It’s just not there, so either way it’s an error in doctrine that violates its own premise.
 
The idea that religious doctrine had to be Biblical was actually invented by a man named Marcion of Sinope of the 2nd century A.D./C.E. He was once a Catholic bishop, but Gnostic belief had seduced him. The Gnostics taught that “salvation” was only possible for a select group of people to whom God graced with “life-saving knowledge” or in the Greek, GNOSIS. This GNOSIS could be gathered from study but oddly enough only through study of holy writ.

Marcion agreed, except he believed that if this “select class” taught others what they learned from holy writ, these followers could also be “saved” if the “select” taught them. As holy writ, Marcion created a “rule” (in Greek KANON) for what books in Christianity were filled with GNOSIS. Rejecting all the Hebrew Scriptures, he created a “canon” of scriptures that consisted of an edited version of Luke’s Gospel and some select epistles of Paul. Marcion was reported to have been surprised when he found himself excommunicated by Church authorities. His ideas, supported by devising “proof texts” from his canon was one of the longest surviving heresies in the Church. To some degree it has never left.

Eventually the Church took into consideration the need to set its own rule or canon of Scripture. After the fall of the Second Temple, Judaism had already begun to do the same. By the 4th century the New Testament was set. And although the Church had since its beginning accepted the Septuagint as its library of Hebrew Scriptures, Judaism would not have a set Hebrew canon until the Masoretic Tradition finalized the face of Jewish Scriptures between the 4th and 7th centuries.

While the Bible is authoritative, it is not possible for all doctrines of either Judaism or Christianity to each be Biblical. For instance, the Scripture canon that each accepts is unbiblical. There are no commands in the Mosaic Law stating that a written library of Scriptures should be central to Jewish worship. This is the same with Christianity. Jesus did not tell the Church that reading, studying and basing doctrines upon the Bible are requisites for salvation.

The canon of Scripture was set by religious authorities, Jews and Catholic, authority they each had respectively from their religions. There is no list of what books belong in the Bible, what qualities a book should have, how to determine what is or isn’t inspired of God. All that came from the religious leaders of these two religions. Their decisions are not based on any Scripture.

Marcion’s “proof-texting” still remains popular among many religious movements, especially those that arose from the Second Great Awakening. Beginning in the late 1700s, the Second Great Awakening was an American phenomenon among Protestants that developed into the various groups that are known as NRM or New Religious Movements.

Many of these NRMs adopted the Marcion view that their leadership or members were the restoration of the true Church, and as such they were composed of a “select group” or only ones who were to be saved.

Evidence that they were “select” was the claim that they had special knowledge from God that allowed them to interpret the Bible, as they held the Bible as the ultimate revelation from God and salvation limited to those who could unlock its “secret truths.”

Two of the religions among the NRMs are most noted for this. Jehovah’s Witnesses, which grew from Adventism, is a group that claims that a small number among them, often called the “remnant of 144,000” and now limited to their Governing Body, is the only select group that can decipher life-saving truths found only in the writings of the Bible.

The other group took the idea that salvific truth was limited only to writings so far as to create its own “Bible,” the Mormons, and their “select” has been limited to their prophets, beginning with Joseph Smith. Claiming that one had to have knowledge not only from the Bible but the newly discovered Book of Mormon to be saved, the Gnostic belief that salvation is based on truths that are based on written texts, as if written revelation is superior, still lives on.
Fascinating post! 😉

Of course I’ve always said there is NOTHING new about Protestantism; neither Sola Scriptura nor Sola Fide. Rather it is a repackaging of all the old heresies into a new heresy hydra!
 
Fascinating post! 😉

Of course I’ve always said there is NOTHING new about Protestantism; neither Sola Scriptura nor Sola Fide. Rather it is a repackaging of all the old heresies into a new heresy hydra!
A hydra with 30,000 heads.
 
Some people seems to be confident that if the Catholic teaching is not in the Bible, then it’s immediately wrong.

It’s common that some people say that the CC has unbiblical practices. But, how do the CC properly explain that it’s okay?

From some research in Catholic internet sources, I know already that not everything needed to know about Christianity is written in the Bible, some are passed on orally and some are traditions passed on by the apostles, they can be written in other books. There is history that the New Testament is written by Catholics after the ascent of Jesus, and generations later, the real Bible books are differentiated from the fakes first by the Catholics especially the New Testament that exactly has same books in both Catholic and Protestant Bibles of today. Written material is easily faked while a group of people around the world having one belief from a lineage is not easily faked like the CC. It’s an example of the importance of Catholic lineage because nobody else can confirm the authenticity of the real scriptures from an intelligent source. The clergy has succession of being chosen as keepers of Christianity beginning from Jesus and the apostles so It also gave them authority to give new teachings just like Biblical apostles do because they are the new apostles(is this right?). That’s my explanation for now, I hope Catholics here can help me.
The first thing to absorb is that Jesus is a person not a book, and established a Church of people, not of books. .
If that can’t be accepted then we are simply arguing about interpretations of the book, and not trusting people who have authority.
 
For those who are asking for unbiblical things by Catholics, on top my head are… …and saints hear prayers.
Admittedly, as a Catholic I have struggled with this one. I can tell you for example that the Jewish people revered St. Michael (the archangel) in centuries B.C.

If the Church teaches that God allows Saints to hear our prayers, who am I to disagree? I will say that maybe, just maybe, not the validity of praying to Saints but some of the emphasis on it may somewhat be related to the Church being “all things to all people” (as St. Paul teaches) and the prior pagan culture of praying to many gods etc. I could be wrong - it’s just a thought. As we know the Church has absorbed and applied new (Christian) meaning to many customs including Jewish, Roman, pagan, …

But again, I’m being very careful with this, I’m not debating the ***validity ***of praying to Saints by this but rather that some of its ***emphasis/prevalence ***(e.g. All Saints Day [Halloween]) may be related to the absorption of cultures by Christianity.

For example, no one debates that the beauty of a Christmas tree (previously a pagan custom) can enhance the beauty of Christmas - right? There is nothing wrong with a Christmas tree but it’s also not required.

I have been told that praying to Saints is not required at all in personal prayer. In fact, if the only prayer a person wants to say in their personal prayer is the Our Father, then as a Catholic that is one’s own decision. It’s true that at mass there are occasional prayers to Saints and it is a requirement to believe that it’s OK to pray to them (“Communion of Saints”).
 
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