Is it okay to believe that females are degenerated males?

[Oneofthewomen]

Yes, men are absolutely perfect in every way.

Here is a little something from my “feminist days” that I am sure you will find the humor in-

If a female is “xx”
and a male is “xy”
you now have definitive proof that women are superior,
for what is a ‘y’ but a defective ‘x’?!

DISCLAIMER- this is just meant to be humorous, personally this discussion totally confuses me, as much of Aquinas does. I guess he was just a man of his time.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Here’s the “physics” behind “degeneracy”:

"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence; such as that of a south wind, which is moist, as the Philosopher observes (De Gener. Animal. iv, 2). On the other hand, as regards human nature in general, woman is not misbegotten, but is included in nature’s intention as directed to the work of generation. Now the general intention of nature depends on God, Who is the universal Author of nature. Therefore, in producing nature, God formed not only the male but also the female."

Here Aquinas responds to the idea that women should not have been created since they were defective, but nothing defective should’ve been made, so neither should women be made.

I don’t understand how past philosophers expected the human race to survive, except by an accident called, “women” -a strange position for such philosophers to take since it is against their spirit to found natural laws on the fortuitous?

The theology you are repeating is based on bad science which was disproven over a century ago.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

As far as I know, it seems that I always post out of good faith -and not to be provocative no matter how provocative the topic seems in itself.

And as far as I know, the site that I quoted does contradict Aquinas but I don’t understand their explanation. But I thought it was probable that most others knew the explanation since the explanation must be a big part about Catholicism (dealing as it does with a very common subject). So I trusted that others would bring up any explanations they had in this thread.

But as far as I know, the place where I directly quoted from (the Summa) doesn’t contradict the idea that females were degenerate, and St. Thomas doesn’t disagree with the assessment.

But I realize I still have a question: Although I know that it is not good to believe in the degeneracy thesis, I’m not sure why it is not good. Now clearly St. Thomas didn’t think that women were unequal in the worth of human nature, **just that they were mistakes of nature in some way. **So these two ideas are reconcilable with each other such that just stating that women are equal doesn’t guarantee a decisive defense of the idea that they aren’t misbegotten. Unless one means women are “strictly equal” which is impossible since strict equality implies physical equality which is impossible and it goes against church teaching in which women are not strictly equal but have unique skills and weaknesses.

You don’t see why people would have an issue with labeling women as misbegotten/mistakes/defective males

Are you sure you’re not just trolling?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

What counterargument is there to St.Aquinas?

Again, “strictly equal” is said in many ways: equality in dignity, equality in biology, etc.

Now clearly they are not biologically strictly equal or else female would be male. As a consequence, the biological equality of one doesn’t have to do with the equality in essential dignity or else they would have to be truly males to be of the same dignity.

So if it isn’t against the dignity of the female to be physically malformed, then even less is it possible for an accident of their generation to cause them to be less dignified.

So what’s so bad about believing that woman’s birth is mistake of nature?

Well it doesn’t make sense for one.

The normal way that humans (and ALL mammals) reproduce requires the participation of both males and females. Frankly it requires more participation on behalf of the female involved.

If something is required to make a process function properly, that something is by definition not a mistake.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Actually over 1/2 of the human race is female.

Not anymore.

Thanks to India, China, and a bunch of other countries killing all their female babies the ratio is swinging the other way. Ideas like Fakename’s (that women are misbegotten, inferior, a mistake, etc.) are quite harmful.

 

[ahs]

Is it okay to believe that females are physically degenerated males -in the sense that the making of a woman is based on a supposed fluke of nature (as Aquinas held)?

Regardless of what points you want to argue, your view of women as “degenerated males” is contrary to the Church’s teaching…and the Church has already considered all the facts and opinions that were presented from whatever Church Father you care to refer to:

I think one would have to look at what he actually said…I do not that exactly those terms (though yes I know he had inherited some wrong ideas there I think from greek philosophy…) but it does not matter much what it was…here is what the Church teaches:

Catechism:

Equality and difference willed by God

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator.240 Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1B.HTM

Such is what one is to hold

I prefer the term mutant

And our mutant superpower is the ability to get other humans pregnant.

 

[Equites_Christi]

You’re aware that etymologically male and female aren’t connected right?

Oh yes, I was just making a pun