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souldiver
Guest
I saw before in the internet, some medieval people made stuff to prevent sex and masturbation. What about in the present? Should a person enjoy sex? Maybe with wife or husband only?
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1ke
Guest
Because you saw it on the internet it must be true?
Yes, there were people who attempted to control themselves or others by means of various devices. However, the point of those were extra-marital.
Why do you leap from there to putting into question enjoying sex with one’s spouse?
What “some people” did is not the same thing as “what the Church teaches”. One is called to chastity in one’s state in life. Chastity in marriage and chastity when single look different.
God designed the marital embrace. He made it pleasurable. We are not to misuse his gift by engaging in sexual relations with those not our spouse.
A person should not be having sexual relations with a person other than their spouse.
Of course the marital embrace is designed to be enjoyable.
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SighGuy
Guest
As stated above… Catholicism is not a dualistic religion, seeing matter as evil and spirit as good. That’s Manichaeism, Catharism, gnosticism, etc…
Jesus came eating and drinking. He came in the flesh. These things are not evil. Sure, Jesus did not have relations with anyone, but that doesn’t mean no one can. His mission was very specific. We’re not all called to the same missions in life.
Sometimes people have used devices like the cilice in order to help them stay chaste. Sex is a thing so intimate and unifying that it must only be had between two people who have pledged themselves together in marriage. Anything short of that is sin.
Even within the context of marriage, sex can be sinful, if it defiles the marriage bed, or is degrading to one or the other, etc…
Sex is a temporal good. However, it is so broadly misused that there are a lot of sexual sins out there, to the point where you have come to confuse the sins with the act itself. Sex itself is not evil, and was provided for a man and wife for their benefit.
Jesus came eating and drinking. He came in the flesh. These things are not evil. Sure, Jesus did not have relations with anyone, but that doesn’t mean no one can. His mission was very specific. We’re not all called to the same missions in life.
Sometimes people have used devices like the cilice in order to help them stay chaste. Sex is a thing so intimate and unifying that it must only be had between two people who have pledged themselves together in marriage. Anything short of that is sin.
Even within the context of marriage, sex can be sinful, if it defiles the marriage bed, or is degrading to one or the other, etc…
Sex is a temporal good. However, it is so broadly misused that there are a lot of sexual sins out there, to the point where you have come to confuse the sins with the act itself. Sex itself is not evil, and was provided for a man and wife for their benefit.
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TarkanAttila
Guest
**Well, think logically. **What is the purpose and ends of sex? What do we see in the conjugal act? Does it feel good? Of course it does! It should be enjoyed. But is there more to it than that?
Whatever contraceptives may do, we may be sure that the simplest and easiest way for two typical people, a man and a woman, to produce a human life is through the conjugal act. And we know this happens because scientists have witnessed it time and time again: sperm + egg = baby. And no one can doubt the simplest way, the time-tested method, of combining those two, is in sexual intercourse. And did I mention that, unlike IVF, sex is actually fun?
But we must consider both. If we forget sex is meant for the survival of the species… well, who will remember it? Who will be the caretakers of the next generation? And if we forget sex is fun - well, what do we have to do to even reach that point? That would be just as horrifying as the prospect of separating children from their parents.
And do note, I understand there are exceptions to the rule. But there must be a rule. And this, it seems to me, is it: divorcing either the pleasure or the procreation from the sexual act will result in problems for families, societies, governments, and the human race in general. Yes, humanity will get along - just as it has gotten along with incest, polygamy, adultery, and infanticide.
But** a thing is right or wrong, not because of its effects alone, but because it is as it should be. ** And although there are exceptions, we can look to our human nature - physically, mentally, spiritually, and communally - as a reliable guideline.
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StSentry83
Guest
It’s tricky. Technically you can enjoy sex, but you are not to enjoy it “too much.” But no one ever defines “too much,” so you just end up feeling guilty about it if you liked it and you confess and the process repeats.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Do you really think that a Catholic answer would be no, you can’t enjoy a Holy act that god created?
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
No, that is absolutely false. Why do you believe this?
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TarkanAttila
Guest
Where’d you get an idea like that?
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12345678
Guest
Catechism:
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
Exactly. What could “limits of just moderation” mean except that there is, well, a “limit” on the enjoyment or performance of otherwise licit sexual relations between validly married spouses?
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LongingSoul
Guest
It is a proscription against lust which can infect even marital relationships. CCC2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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schaubj57
Guest
Would the “limit s of just moderation” mean that you should not become someone who is obsessed with having sex at any time of day every day? Becoming someone who is a nymphomaniac would not be respectful of the gift of sex that God has given us because it takes away the specific meaning of sex and turns it into fulfilling ones lust for sexual gratification. You turn an act that pleases God into an act that pleases only yourself.
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
I disagree with this interpretation. The comment concerning “limits of just moderation” occurs in the context of the Catechism’s reference to “pleasure,” not the description of lust, which is a number of paragraphs removed.
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LongingSoul
Guest
The Catechism is quoting from the document Allocution to midwives, Pius XII…
“Nevertheless, here also, husband and wife must know how to keep themselves within the limits of a just moderation. As with the pleasure of food and drink so with the sexual they must not abandon themselves without restraint to the impulses of the senses.”
So it is referring to disordered desires of a sensual nature.
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StSentry83
Guest
So was I right that if you enjoy it, you should probably confess it just in case?
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PaulinVA
Guest
i’m sorry, but if you enjoyed it, doesn’t that mean you did it correctly?
I can not imagine confessing that “Father, I enjoyed having sex with my wife* too much*.” I can’t believe the standard is “good, but not great”.
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Ositokc
Guest
From my observations:
Sex is the one thing on this planet that 99% of adults enjoy, if not more.
From a Catholic perspective however, I do think it is meant only
to be enjoyed:
a. if you’re married
b. if you’re open to getting pregnant/impregnating
c. between man and a woman
Thus, if you don’t meet any of the above 3 requirements, you better not enjoy sex, cause it would be considered sinful. :whacky:
Sex is the one thing on this planet that 99% of adults enjoy, if not more.
From a Catholic perspective however, I do think it is meant only
to be enjoyed:
a. if you’re married
b. if you’re open to getting pregnant/impregnating
c. between man and a woman
Thus, if you don’t meet any of the above 3 requirements, you better not enjoy sex, cause it would be considered sinful. :whacky:
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