Is it okay to vote for freemasons?

[fakename]

Assume hypothetically, that freemasons are evil conspirators, would it be good then to vote for them?

Would it be bad to vote for a freemason, if freemasons=occultists?

 

[runningdude]

Your hypothetical is nonsense at best, slanderous at worst. Freemasonry is simply a non-Catholic quasi-religion. There is no conspiracy, and to suggest otherwise is an affront to the many good men in the organization…

 

[kch86]

Your hypothetical is nonsense at best, slanderous at worst. Freemasonry is simply a non-Catholic quasi-religion. There is no conspiracy, and to suggest otherwise is an affront to the many good men in the organization…

Let’s not get too hung up about the word “conspiracy.” Every time there was a revolution that overthrew a government, some people had to conspire together in order to carry it out, and the secretive structure of Freemasonry does provide a great environment for conspirators to work together.

That said, it is about as wrong to vote for a Freemason as it is for an atheist or a Hindu or a Catholic. If it’s a good man (or the lesser evil) and espouses values compatible with Catholic teachings (or less incompatible than the alternative), then it’s okay.

But if we were to assume that they were evil conspirators, as you suggested, then of course it would be wrong to vote for an evil conspirator.

Freemasons who view their Masonic lodge as more than just a social club are indeed occultists. But whether you might want to vote for them depends on their political values.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Wait a minute, I thought freemasons were good? I know that Church was historically at odds with them, but in terms of absolute good and evil, I thought the freemasons were more so a force of good - similar to how the Church and protestants are at odds, but protestants certainly aren’t “evil.” Freemasons are not satanic and in fact members are required to believe in God or in a diety… unless Satan can count a diety?

Then again I know nothing. Inform me.

 

[kch86]

Wait a minute, I thought freemasons were good? I know that Church was historically at odds with them, but in terms of absolute good and evil, I thought the freemasons were more so a force of good - similar to how the Church and protestants are at odds, but protestants certainly aren’t “evil.” Freemasons are not satanic and in fact members are required to believe in God or in a diety… unless Satan can count a diety?

Then again I know nothing. Inform me.

Freemasons can be both good and bad.

There have been times in history when parts of Freemasonry used its political power to violently repress the Church, as has happened before in Mexico and parts of Europe.

It also depends on the sort of Freemasonry. European Freemasonry tends to be very anti-clerical and anti-Catholic when compared to Anglo-American Freemasonry, which tends to be more neutral, but not always. It also permits the discussion of religion and politics within lodges and doesn’t require a belief in God, which is another point of difference between the two branches. And so Anglo-Americans don’t recognise Europeans as genuine Freemasons, and it all gets a bit complicated. But from our point of view as Christians, they’re two flavours of the same brand of ice cream.

But yes, a belief in God or a deity is required in Anglo-American Freemasonry, which is perhaps one of the reasons why its relationship with the Catholic Church hasn’t been quite as bad.

The more esoteric and occult teachings of Freemasonry tend to refer to the God or Deity as some sort of spiritual force, which, if you learn to control with secret knowledge derived from ancient mysteries, will provide you with some rather amazing, almost magical powers. It’s spooky stuff, although Masons insist it’s entirely scientific. I think some Masonic authors have referred to that force as “Lucifer,” hence the accusations of Satanism, although I don’t believe that they literally meant the Devil. Still, once you get deeper into Freemasonry and beyond the social club and charitable aspect of it, its philosophies are radically incompatible with Christianity.

But back to the original question, yes, it’s okay to vote for a Freemason if he is the best candidate. The vast majority of Freemasons are only in the social club aspect of it anyway.

 

[lutherlic]

Wait a minute, I thought freemasons were good? I know that Church was historically at odds with them, …

Catholics are strictly forbidden from becoming freemasons. A thread on this topic is here.

We are still “at odds with them”. See this.

From ScriptureCatholic.com:

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).

Freemasonry’s teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry’s religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge’s prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism.

The Lodge’s practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with voting for a freemason.

 

[fakename]

user "kch86":

Let’s not get too hung up about the word “conspiracy.” Every time there was a revolution that overthrew a government, some people had to conspire together in order to carry it out, and the secretive structure of Freemasonry does provide a great environment for conspirators to work together.

That said, it is about as wrong to vote for a Freemason as it is for an atheist or a Hindu or a Catholic. If it’s a good man (or the lesser evil) and espouses values compatible with Catholic teachings (or less incompatible than the alternative), then it’s okay.

But if we were to assume that they were evil conspirators, as you suggested, then of course it would be wrong to vote for an evil conspirator.

Freemasons who view their Masonic lodge as more than just a social club are indeed occultists. But whether you might want to vote for them depends on their political values.

perhaps I should expand on what I mean by conspiracy. Basically I mean “conspiracy” not just as insurrection but also as “a manipulation of events and culture against the common good”.

As such, one should not vote for someone who would do the latter? I’m assuming that the answer would be no?

And finally, I do know that some “high-level Freemasons” do have strange occult philosophies: If you go onto google books you can read masonic treatises by masons from the 1920s and 1800s and 1700s and you will see that the zany conspiracy theories are widely true. But for the most part Freemasonry is rather mundane.

 

[kch86]

perhaps I should expand on what I mean by conspiracy. Basically I mean “conspiracy” not just as insurrection but also as “a manipulation of events and culture against the common good”.

As such, one should not vote for someone who would do the latter? I’m assuming that the answer would be no?

I think there is no doubt that the answer would be “no”. If you believe one of the candidates would “manipulate events and culture against the common good,” then you cannot in good faith vote for him, unless, perhaps, the alternative is worse. Freemasonry by definition might tend to manipulate events and culture for the benefit of the fraternity and thus against the common good, so that is something to consider.

And finally, I do know that some “high-level Freemasons” do have strange occult philosophies: If you go onto google books you can read masonic treatises by masons from the 1920s and 1800s and 1700s and you will see that the zany conspiracy theories are widely true. But for the most part Freemasonry is rather mundane.

That’s true. Even the more mundane aspects of it may be imbued with syncretism, relativism and ideas of freedom that quite often are contradictory to Christianity. However, nowadays I think that the philosophies that were once quite specific to Freemasonry have become part of the culture in general, so it makes little difference now whether someone is a Freemason or not in terms of the philosophies they hold to be true. So if the choice is between two secular candidates, it might not make a great deal of difference.

I would be suspicious of a Masonic politician claiming to be Christian, however, because you can never be certain which of the two conflicting types of philosophy holds precedence for him. For some, Freemasonry really is just a social and networking club, so I guess it all really depends on the individual candidate and while Freemasonry is something to be taken into account, it doesn’t automatically mean a Catholic cannot vote for a member of the fraternity, especially in cases where the opposing candidate, who may be a non-member, may espouse ideas that are in fact even more injurious to Christian morals.

 

[FaithBuild18]

Thanks for the responses all. I’ve learned a lot.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think it depends on the individual. Religious and fraternal affiliations do not tell a story of how good of a person someone is. Many Catholics would never vote for Gingrich because while he may be Catholic he doesn’t have the best moral or ethical track record.

If it makes you feel any better people are put under a lot of scrutiny before they can join the masons. They expect strong family values, a good work ethic, and a desire to volunteer time and resources to better the community and help those in need.

 

[Brother_Steve]

perhaps I should expand on what I mean by conspiracy. Basically I mean “conspiracy” not just as insurrection but also as “a manipulation of events and culture against the common good”.

As such, one should not vote for someone who would do the latter? I’m assuming that the answer would be no?

And finally, I do know that some “high-level Freemasons” do have strange occult philosophies: If you go onto google books you can read masonic treatises by masons from the 1920s and 1800s and 1700s and you will see that the zany conspiracy theories are widely true. But for the most part Freemasonry is rather mundane.

Here are some opinions from those high ranking Masons
grandlodgeofiowa.org/docs/Freemasonry_Religion/ConscienceAndTheCraft.pdf

 

[tarboy]

Assume hypothetically, that freemasons are evil conspirators, would it be good then to vote for them?

Would it be bad to vote for a freemason, if freemasons=occultists?

fakename, I’m confused by your question.

If someone is truely evil, your conscience and their stand on the issues should guide you.

I’m more concerned about what you ‘Assume’. For example, if one assumes every member of an oranization, race or an ethnic group are ‘evil’ or some other adjective, the term bigot comes to mind.

 

[rfournier103]

As an American, I vote for the person who, in my estimation will execute his duties best. If that man happens to be a Freemason, I am NOT going to vote for a less qualified person because of the affiliation.

The electorate has a DUTY to vote for the best candidate available. To vote for a less qualified person is irresponsible.

I do not see an affiliation with Freemasonry as lessening a man’s political qualifications.

Can he balance a budget? Will he do what is best for the majority of his constituency? Will bills he votes on, or signs into law be of good moral structure?

THAT determines a good candidate.

 

[fakename]

Here are some opinions from those high ranking Masons
grandlodgeofiowa.org/docs/Freemasonry_Religion/ConscienceAndTheCraft.pdf

I’m just saying, that Manly P. Hall suggested that his books should be used by freemasons. And the people who praise his books also agree. So since this suggestion is popularly deemed to be good, it seems probable enough that some high ranking freemasons believe in Hall’s books and these books contain white magic instructions. So it appears that at least some freemasons are magicians.

(all info is taken from amazon.com and google books and of course, necessary extrapolations)

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

We can thank freemasons for the French revolution, American Revolution, The slaughter of Catholics in Mexico, for the KKK and a lot of other evil things. They worship Baal. Their single goal is to destroy the Catholic Church. I’ll die before I vote for one of these evil people.

 

[rfournier103]

Buck… The American Revolution was a GOOD thing.

 

[CesarAugustus]

No.

Is giving more power for these people, and in places heavily influenced by them, there is much anti Catholicism, and promotion of unchristian thought and practice.

Blessings!

 

[Brother_Steve]

I’m just saying, that Manly P. Hall suggested that his books should be used by freemasons. And the people who praise his books also agree. So since this suggestion is popularly deemed to be good, it seems probable enough that some high ranking freemasons believe in Hall’s books and these books contain white magic instructions. So it appears that at least some freemasons are magicians.

(all info is taken from amazon.com and google books and of course, necessary extrapolations)

It’s important to understand that No One Person Speaks for Freemasonry. This makes it particularly confusing for those who want to look for that ‘one authoritative writing’ which encompasses all of the history, legend, and philosophy of Freemasonry. Simply put: there isn’t and never will be such a book.

Manley Hall- The Lost Keys of Freemasonry is a work often quoted by anti-Masons due to some of the statements made by Hall about the religious nature of Freemasonry. Published in 1923, it was written when Hall was barely 21 years of age - and some thirty one (31) years before he became a Mason! Because of this, it can easily be seen that the book represents merely the personal theories of a non-Mason.

“He was a promulgator of mystic and theosophical philosophies and despite the claims of anti-Masons, his writings have not received official sanction by any Masonic body. The fact that he held the Thirty-third Degree and was respected by many Thirty-Third Degree Masons and even by the Supreme Councils 33º is no more significant than the fact that various Baptist, Anglican, or Methodist authors also hold or held that honor.”

“Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry”
by Art DeHoyos & S. Brent Morris