Is it permitted to administer Anointing of the Sick to a person against their will?

[808Catholic]

No. I disagree with you. The woman was very clear on her wishes. If she were lucid, she would not have welcomed the priest. The father was long past taking responsibility for his daughter’s soul. On a deathbed, it is between a person and God.

“On a deathbed, it is between a person and God.” Is that a church doctrine?

 

[thistle]

My sister was baptized Roman Catholic as an infant, but rejected organized religion in her early teens.** She has not considered herself a Catholic since and has not participated in any way for 50 years.** As my sister was in the final days of her losing fight against cancer, she wrote up a list of Final Wishes and posted them in her house. Included among those wishes was that no one come to pray over her and, specifically, no one was to give her “Last Rites”. My father, an avid Catholic, knew about this wish but, fearing her eternal damnation, brought in a priest and the priest administered the Anointment of the Sick as she lie helpless and crying. My father claims that this is not only in line with Catholic policy, but recommended. Is this true?

Can. 1006 This sacrament is to be administered to the sick who, when they were in possession of their faculties, at least implicitly asked for it.

Can. 1007 The anointing of the sick is not to be conferred upon those who obstinately persist in a manifestly grave sin.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Let’s agree that we disagree and we’ll leave it at that. God Bless you.

No, there is no “agree to disagree” on this matter. What the OP posted as happening is not good. It is wrong, very wrong, and the priest should have known better.

It was not up to the father to force anything onto his adult daughter, and the woman’s wishes, no matter what anyone else thinks, should have been honored. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

[Bonnie]

Can. 1006 This sacrament is to be administered to the sick who, when they were in possession of their faculties, at least implicitly asked for it.

Can. 1007 The anointing of the sick is not to be conferred upon those who obstinately persist in a manifestly grave sin.

Thanks for taking the time to look this up. I don’t know where our Canon Law book has wandered off to - I’m going to have to look for it.

 

[808Catholic]

No, there is no “agree to disagree” on this matter. What the OP posted as happening is not good. It is wrong, very wrong, and the priest should have known better.

It was not up to the father to force anything onto his adult daughter, and the woman’s wishes, no matter what anyone else thinks, should have been honored. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

Go with peace.

 

[InThePew]

The grace conferred by the sacraments is a free gift from God but it is up to us to choose whether or not to accept His gift. We are not forced by Him to accept it because he respects our free will even if that means that we choose to against Him. That is why *all *sacraments must be freely requested (at least implicitly) by those that they are administered to. even in baptism, a priest will not (knowingly) baptise a child against the will of its parents. Of course the priest can only go by what he’s told and, if asked to anoint someone, will usually presume that it’s in accordance with the person’s wishes so it’s possible that the priest in the OP’s situation wasn’t aware of the sister’s refusal.

A person in a situation similar to that of the OP’s sister isn’t necessarily condemned to eternal damnation - we entrust her to God’s mercy and pray for her.

 

[808Catholic]

The grace conferred by the sacraments is a free gift from God but it is up to us to choose whether or not to accept His gift. We are not forced by Him to accept it because he respects our free will even if that means that we choose to against Him. That is why *all *sacraments must be freely requested (at least implicitly) by those that they are administered to. even in baptism, a priest will not (knowingly) baptise a child against the will of its parents. Of course the priest can only go by what he’s told and, if asked to anoint someone, will usually presume that it’s in accordance with the person’s wishes so it’s possible that the priest in the OP’s situation wasn’t aware of the sister’s refusal.

A person in a situation similar to that of the OP’s sister isn’t necessarily condemned to eternal damnation - we entrust her to God’s mercy and pray for her.

Amen!

 

[buc_fan33]

808Catholic, I’m afraid you’re a bit misguided here. You have the right intentions, meaning your heart is in the right place, but we still can’t force the sacraments on someone who doesn’t wish to receive them. Someone posted it above, but it bears repeating. The sacraments aren’t magic. They are real signs of grace. God does not force us to receive His grace. If He did, no one would ever be lost. But, He simply does not force us to accept Him. I hope that this woman was given a particular grace at the moment of death to see clearly the reality of our Good Lord, and that she choose accordingly. But, we mustn’t give the sacraments to those who clearly do not want to receive them.

 

[808Catholic]

808Catholic, I’m afraid you’re a bit misguided here. You have the right intentions, meaning your heart is in the right place, but we still can’t force the sacraments on someone who doesn’t wish to receive them. Someone posted it above, but it bears repeating. The sacraments aren’t magic. They are real signs of grace. God does not force us to receive His grace. If He did, no one would ever be lost. But, He simply does not force us to accept Him. I hope that this woman was given a particular grace at the moment of death to see clearly the reality of our Good Lord, and that she choose accordingly. But, we mustn’t give the sacraments to those who clearly do not want to receive them.

I appreciate your kind guidance, @buc, and think we’re both saying the same thing. God gives us grace through His clergy on earth. He doesn’t need priests to grant grace though sacraments are a visible and real sign of His grace flowing down to us.

I believe this is a similar subject as eucharistic ministers who withhold distributing the Holy Eucharist to someone they believe is not in good grace. The EMHC is instructed to distribute the Eucharist because he/she doesn’t know (really know) if that person is in good grace or not. It’s up to the priest or pastor to determine the state of that person.

In this case, a woman Baptized Catholic lays dying and her father has asked a priest to give her the Sacrament of the Sick. The father knows his daughter has specifically requested no priest, no sacraments but he does this, presumably, out of love for his daughter. The father doesn’t want her to endanger her immortal soul so he does this with full knowledge that she had previously stated otherwise. The priest confers the sacrament. I’m fully aware this is not just “Catholic magic”. The priest has the duty, sworn to God, to take care of God’s people. She’s still Catholic! How could the priest NOT have given her the last rites???

If the woman, immediately after death, meets God and says “Lord save me!”, she has the grace of the sacrament. If the woman, upon meeting God, says “I told everyone I didn’t want anything to do with you!”, she still can choose hell.

I hope this clarifies my position. God Bless you.

 

[WillyAL]

I was thinking that if the person was unable to communicate, it might be fair to assume they may have changed their mind.

Perhaps when you are on your deathbed, unable to communicate, it might be fair to assume that you desire to convert to Islam.

 

[Bonnie]

Perhaps when you are on your deathbed, unable to communicate, it might be fair to assume that you desire to convert to Islam.

Yep! That’s why we don’t assume - I don’t want any of my well-meaning non-Christian relatives think that because I can’t communicate well at the moment, I’ve decided to go new age.

 

[808Catholic]

Perhaps when you are on your deathbed, unable to communicate, it might be fair to assume that you desire to convert to Islam.

Might be true yet she was baptized Catholic, rejected all religions, so why would you think she might want to convert on her deathbed??? Isn’t it more probable that she would return to the religion of her upbringing?

 

[Bonnie]

Might be true yet she was baptized Catholic, rejected all religions, so why would you think she might want to convert on her deathbed??? Isn’t it more probable that she would return to the religion of her upbringing?

I was raised Protestant & became Catholic as an adult. So you think it would be likely that I’d want a Protestant minister praying with me before I die? I don’t think so.

No matter how much it hurts, we have to respect the decisions our adult children make. Both of my children have left the Church - there is no way I’d force anything Catholic on them at any time.

 

[808Catholic]

I was raised Protestant & became Catholic as an adult. So you think it would be likely that I’d want a Protestant minister praying with me before I die? I don’t think so.

No matter how much it hurts, we have to respect the decisions our adult children make. Both of my children have left the Church - there is no way I’d force anything Catholic on them at any time.

I understand your point of view but disagree on the topic of “giving” up on our loved ones. Christ didn’t give up; neither should we. When I had my children baptised in the Catholic Church, I promised in front of the entire church that I would raise them Catholic. They are now in their 20’s and have chosen to keep an arm’s length away from the Church. That doesn’t stop me from trying to bring them back. I’ll keep trying until the day I die. Through Christ Jesus, they may return to the Church and it may happen on the day of my funeral. That’s not a bad thought; giving up my life so that my children may gain theirs. Through Christ Jesus.

God Bless you.

 

[Bonnie]

I understand your point of view but disagree on the topic of “giving” up on our loved ones.

I never said I gave up on my kids - I love them too much for that! I just won’t force anything on them at any time. We pray for them, tell them we’re praying, and discuss our faith with them - and we listen respectfully when they tell us about where they are in their spiritual journeys.

 

[808Catholic]

I never said I gave up on my kids - I love them too much for that! I just won’t force anything on them at any time. We pray for them, tell them we’re praying, and discuss our faith with them - and we listen respectfully when they tell us about where they are in their spiritual journeys.

My apologies if you felt my message about giving up on our children was directed to you specifically. It was meant as a general condemnation directed towards those that do. Not to you specifically.

 

[AKDee]

Perhaps when you are on your deathbed, unable to communicate, it might be fair to assume that you desire to convert to Islam.

That’s just offensive. My comment was NOT a defense of what occurred here- I earlier stated that since the OP indicated that the person was saying “Stop” that they should have stopped. The comment you are quoting was a simple interjection of something I had read that pertained to the most recent comments before it, which I wished to contribute to the conversation. It didn’t call for a nasty comment from you.

 

[Bonnie]

My apologies if you felt my message about giving up on our children was directed to you specifically. It was meant as a general condemnation directed towards those that do. Not to you specifically.

Then you shouldn’t have quoted me.

 

[808Catholic]

Then you shouldn’t have quoted me.

God’s peace be with you.

 

[buc_fan33]

I appreciate your kind guidance, @buc, and think we’re both saying the same thing. God gives us grace through His clergy on earth. He doesn’t need priests to grant grace though sacraments are a visible and real sign of His grace flowing down to us.

I believe this is a similar subject as eucharistic ministers who withhold distributing the Holy Eucharist to someone they believe is not in good grace. The EMHC is instructed to distribute the Eucharist because he/she doesn’t know (really know) if that person is in good grace or not. It’s up to the priest or pastor to determine the state of that person.

In this case, a woman Baptized Catholic lays dying and her father has asked a priest to give her the Sacrament of the Sick. The father knows his daughter has specifically requested no priest, no sacraments but he does this, presumably, out of love for his daughter. The father doesn’t want her to endanger her immortal soul so he does this with full knowledge that she had previously stated otherwise. The priest confers the sacrament. I’m fully aware this is not just “Catholic magic”. The priest has the duty, sworn to God, to take care of God’s people. She’s still Catholic! How could the priest NOT have given her the last rites???

If the woman, immediately after death, meets God and says “Lord save me!”, she has the grace of the sacrament. If the woman, upon meeting God, says “I told everyone I didn’t want anything to do with you!”, she still can choose hell.

I hope this clarifies my position. God Bless you.

With respect, it isn’t similar to EMHCs at all. It would be more akin to an EMHC forcing someone to receive Holy Communion who clearly didn’t want to. (As an aside…again, I don’t really think this is related…it’s not up to the pastor to determine the state of someone’s soul. It’s up to the recipient of the sacrament.)

As for the priest having the sworn duty before God to administer the sacrament, I’m sorry, but that’s not true. At least, it’s not true in the sense that you are using it here. Priests have a responsibility to administer the sacraments to all who reasonably ask for them. But no priest would ever administer a sacrament, any sacrament, against the will of the recipient.