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fhansen
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All true. This is the meaning of the pharisees being white-washed tombs, clean on the outside, filthy on the inside. And this is why its said that God judges by the heart.
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Ron_Conte
Guest
good people are persons of good will, that is, persons who have a sincere full selfless love of others. I would define these terms, such that all persons in a state of grace are of good will (good people), and vice versa. If you die in a state of grace, the stating of loving God and neighbor, then you will go to Heaven (perhaps by way of Purgatory).
everyone in Hell does not have the state of grace, so they don’t love God or neighbor.
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
Grave matter, yes. Not necessarily mortal sin, though.
Can be ?. I would say may be.
However that is way above the pay-grade of anyone here to say that they will or not.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
What did Jesus write? and why is that your standard of authority?
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Wezzyfish
Guest
I am not Catholic so you don’t have to take anything I say with any weight, but I do have a very deep relationship with “God”. I do not believe that the omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being of God would ever cast anybody into eternal damnation. “The eyes of God weigh heaviest on the soul.”
How we feel about our own morality is of the utmost importance. If you carry guilt and disgust for yourself or your actions, then those will weigh you down, perhaps even into the after-life. Yet once you cast off those shackles and realize that God loves you equally with all others, you will feel His/Her love course through you and you become a conduit of that energy, spreading the light and love everywhere you go. It is never too late to repent, not even in death. That doesn’t mean that actions can ever be taken back, or that other people must forgive you, but it means that above all, you must forgive yourself to know that you walk in God’s grace.
How we feel about our own morality is of the utmost importance. If you carry guilt and disgust for yourself or your actions, then those will weigh you down, perhaps even into the after-life. Yet once you cast off those shackles and realize that God loves you equally with all others, you will feel His/Her love course through you and you become a conduit of that energy, spreading the light and love everywhere you go. It is never too late to repent, not even in death. That doesn’t mean that actions can ever be taken back, or that other people must forgive you, but it means that above all, you must forgive yourself to know that you walk in God’s grace.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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Yes I am glad though not in the way you probably are. I am glad that some people are not God that are posting here because they wish to mistakenly usurp Justice with Mercy. ANd they have little concept of the fall of man, the nature of man and the nature of God and how those have to be reconciled. Many also may have no concept of what the Mass really is and why being present at the foot of the Cross is indeed something we are obligated to to. Seeing as Jesus did something even greater for us. Something we were not owed or deserved.Thank you.
Aren’t you glad some people posting are not God?
Fran
There are no confession lines, no evangelical excitement to spread the Gospel and convert? Why is that? Because we mistakenly believe that all we have to do is be good to our standards and we will be fine. That is not Catholicism, heck it isn’t even Christianity it is making ourselves gods of our own holiness. And some will burn for that. No matter how much they save kittens and donate to the homeless.
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Chayla
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I can think of example where good people are “supposedly” condemned to hell.
These are REAL people, and they have been already WARNED by the priest.
Good in the sense of being kind, loving, charitable, gentle, love their kids, etc.
This is a young couple who are in an irregular marriage. Annulment denied. The person who was married before is the innocent victim in this scenario.
So, based on Church teachings, people in irregular marriages are an example.
These are REAL people, and they have been already WARNED by the priest.
Good in the sense of being kind, loving, charitable, gentle, love their kids, etc.
This is a young couple who are in an irregular marriage. Annulment denied. The person who was married before is the innocent victim in this scenario.
So, based on Church teachings, people in irregular marriages are an example.
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frangiuliano115
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What did Jesus write? And my standard of authority?
I don’t understand. Isn’t Jesus your standard of authority?
Some people here are very legalistic. If I remember correctly Jesus was not too happy with the pharisees. Check out Mathew 23:13-36.
And as regarding Jesus authority, go to Mathew 7:24. Let’s build on the foundation of stone, which is Jesus Christ.
Some read the CCC and not the bible. I find these persons to be very damning and judgemental. God is Love. Love casts out all fear. If we love God and follow Jesus, we’re not to be sitting around all day wondering if we’ve commited a mortal sin and if we’re going to hell. This is very detrimental to our christian joy.
Anyway, the commandment is Remember to Keep Holy the Sabbath.
We should study on what that means. How do you keep a day holy? What does holy mean? Does it mean we just go to church? Too many people think this. And how do we keep the Sabbath? Jesus is our new Sabbath!
This doesn’t mean we could sin. Jesus told Mary Magdalene, Neither do I condemn you - go and sin no more. But sin we will continue to do - Jesus will cover for us.
The N.T. doesn’t teach me legalism but how to have a good relationship with the Lord.
Fran
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frangiuliano115
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I agree with you 100%.
Not only do you have to be good to God’s standards, I take it a step further and say you have to start by believing in God or you’re lost from the start.
However, God’s standards are very high - higher than in the O.T. See Mathew 5:17-48.
Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law. We’re very lucky to be living under the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant (or the Mosaic Covenant). It has to do with knowing that great thing Jesus did for us, as you say, and our reaction to it.
I’ve taught from the CCC and find it to be problematic. If others like it, that’s okay. I like knowing Jesus better than knowing the CCC.
Fran
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fhansen
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Funny, but I’ve known a lot of condemning people who’ve relied strictly on the bible alone. The catechism seems quite sound and well balanced IMO, with plenty of teachings about God’s love and the dignity of man. But sin is a reality-and one that can separate man from God just as it did in Eden to begin with- and the doctrine of mortal sin is related to St John’s statement in 1 John 5 that refers to “sin that leads to death”.
So as a concept the doctrine is quite sound. The way we understand it, however, especially as its been understood and practiced in the Catholic culture at times, can lead to a neurotic scrupulosity, and even support a misunderstanding of God’s goodness and love-a misunderstanding that actually originates in man’s already distorted image of Him, an image which the Catechism tells us resulted from the Fall. JMO.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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I have no idea where you are coming up with this stuff.
Please answer the question. What did Jesus write? You said He did not write the CCC as if there was something else He wrote that has some greater authority because Jesus wrote it. What might that be.
The pharisee argument has been turned into a reason for realativism. It has been misunderstood and overplayed.
Where are you coming up with your own personal theology?
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Maximilan_Kolbe
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That was especially true for Val Kilmer.
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frangiuliano115
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I have no idea why you misunderstand. I don’t know what to say.
Maybe you could speak to my priest for whom I taught catechism classes for 6 yrs until having to quit last year. Or maybe another priest who’s known me forever and agrees with me on everything. Or the Monsignor who’s been to our home for dinner many times. Or maybe the two Deacons of two different parishes who know me and my thoughts on everything.
You want to know what Jesus wrote: Jesus wrote all those red words in any bible you care to read, except for the Jehovah Witnesses version.
The CCC was written by the magesterium of the church. Men wrote the CCC based on biblical references and early church father teachings and papal encyclicals and bulls.
Did you know that there are nuns that tell you not to tell children the story of Adam and Eve because when they grow up they find out it’s not true and they loose their faith?
I didn’t listen.
Did you know that there are priests who don’t want you to tell children about hell or the devil because when they grow up they don’t like the devil and decide they don’t like God either? I didn’t listen.
Did you know that there are priests who don’t like to even mention the word “sin” and use other words such as our fragility?
Did you know that our kids are being taught a lot of fluff and nothing solid? God is all love, no justice there. I didn’t pay attention to that either.
Now I know catechists receive little respect nowadays. In fact, parents are pretty resentful of the fact that they even have to take their kids for lessons at all. My parents knew I took what I did seriously and all my kids showed up every week and did very well. Even the ones who thought they had never sinned found out how wrong they were.
We’re required to know basic and moral theology, the bible and the CCC, prayers, and the four parts of the Mass, the 7 sacraments, the liturgical year, put together programs for Christmas and Easter. I even did the liturgy for the Sacrament of Reconciliaton and First Communion.
I’m not a heretic Hoosier Daddy. This is the second letter you’ve sent and I’m not sure what I said to make you misunderstand.
Jesus was very upset with the pharisees. He said it, not me. They had their religion on the outside and on the inside they were legalistic and proud and kept normal jews from knowing God. This exists today too. Too much legalism keeps you from the love of God.
If this is threatening to you, I can’t help it. It’s the truth. Read 1 John chapters 4 and 5. Read the book of Hebrews. Read those words in red.
I don’t have any personal theology. I’m trained to teach what the church teaches. I retain the right to be a bit softer than some people on this thread that say that if I miss Mass a couple of times I’m going to hell. I’ll leave that up to God to decide and not them.
If people use the pharisee argument for relativism it’s not my fault. I’m just stating the way things were when Jesus walked the streets of Jerusalem and the northern hills of Capernaum near the Sea of Galilee where he sat down and spoke of the beatitudes. Find out what it means when the Rabbi sat down. Do you think people who tell someone they’re going to hell are meek or are peacekeepers? And they’re saying it to a christian - not an atheist.
Do you really want a lesson on what it means to keep the Sabbath?
Come on Hoosier Daddy. Give me a break.
Fran
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Your post confuses me, but in christianity you have to be something underneath first and then you can do things.
God bless
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frangiuliano115
Guest
You’re always right fhansen. I just think the CCC is not always very clear and could cause confusion unless you know some basic concepts first.
I especially agree with your second pp and I do wish we could be a bit more merciful with people and not just lay down the law all the time. We’re living in the New Covenant now, living under grace - I just wish we’d act like it.
If some understand this as a really weird concept or that we can sin all we want to, I can’t help it and cannot explain any better.
In Christ
Fran
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Maximilan_Kolbe
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I was kidding…
The poster refernced what’s under the Batman suit, and Val was an unpopular Batman (under the suit), as was George Clooney.
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frangiuliano115
Guest
Yeah. I watch movies too!
Just wanted to make the point about the christian concept being the opposite of what Val (who’s really aged!) Kilmer said.
Fran
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frangiuliano115
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Oops!
I see what you mean.
I should have replied to Gregory Olson!
Sorry.
Fran
Yeah. Not too much was lost with Val being gone…
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
cont.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
cont.
Why are you so judgmental of people you deem as pharisees? Why do you condemn and judge those who condemn and judge?Come on Hoosier Daddy. Give me a break. On second thought perhaps you should go back and read those “words in red” and find out just how much more Jesus mentions Hell in His teaching than the CCC…
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