Is it possible for a protestant to avoid mortal sin for their entire life?

[TRH1292]

The belief that a person can refrain from sin for a lifetime through their own will is commonly considered the heresy called Pelagianism.

Here’s some more information:newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm

Who said anything about their own will?

I’m talking about those that live in this redeemed universe, where God pours forth abundant Grace that is sufficient for everyone. Without God’s Grace, man is not capable of even one good act. But God is giving his mercy to all and sufficiently for all.

 

[TRH1292]

I fully disagree, its heresy! Do you really mean that ordinary people can live as sinless as Jesus and Mary? That one can even declare themselves sinless based on their on limited knowledge of sin? Its preposterous.

I think you need to calm down a little bit. You really don’t have the authority to make heresy declarations, especially sense you are just now in RCIA.

Of course, nobody would claim that we can be the exact same as Jesus and Mary. Neither of them had original Sin. And Jesus was God in the flesh.

But theoretically, it is possible for someone, although born in Original Sin to always choose the Good and never enter mortal sin, if they follow God’s Grace. It is commonly believed that St. Therese of The Child Jesus never committed a mortal sin.

If it was inevitable that we would commit a mortal Sin, then we wouldn’t really have Free Will, and God’s Grace really wouldn’t be sufficient. But it is and we do.

 

[HeadingBackHome]

first of all i would like to say that I commented a bit hasty.

To not commit mortal sin does not mean one is sinless. I never said anything about venial.

Venial sins in big quantity leads to mortal sins right?
I mean a lout of venial makes one wanna commit mortal/ severe sin?
Please correct me if Im wrong

Show me where it is heresy to believe one can refrain from mortal sin.

I cant show you how its heresy becouse I was out of line to Call it heresy in the first Place. I am truely sorry about it. I hope you can forgive it.

Heresy is a big accusation.

there must be room to disagree without having to throw accusations after another.
My accusation was entirely premature and unjustified. Sorry I offended you.

Do you think mortal sin is the only kind of sin? Your response leads me to believe that. Nowhere did I state that people can live as “sinless as Jesus and Mary”. We can try, but we still will likely fall into venial sin.

No I am aware of the difference of venial and severe sins.

I still disagree With you, but I like to withdraw all accusations of heresy.
I am in RCIA and have a Limited understanding of the Church view on this and a lot of other Things so I should have kept a lower profil. Sorry

God Bless you all!

 

[Jon_S_1]

We can try, but we still will likely fall into venial sin.

Here is the problem I see in this statement.

“Likely fall into Venial sin”

No, we are sinful. Ever since Adam and Eve sin, man has been consumed by sin. All of the Saints frequented Confession and honestly it is a sign of a saintly person that they can recognize their own sin.

Anyone who claims they occasionally fall into Venial sin should more deeply examine their conscience. I would suggest that everyone commits Venial sins on a daily/near daily basis. For example every time you act selfishly is Venial even if slight.

The same is true for mortal sin, although maybe not a daily occurrence, I would say its tough especially in our culture to go very long without mortal sin.

Lust
Idolatry- hello anything you put above God is idolatry money and careers are huge idols.
Covet neighbors possessions- keeping up with the jones’

Bottom line Rom 3;23. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

 

[eyesopening]

first of all i would like to say that I commented a bit hasty.

Venial sins in big quantity leads to mortal sins right?
I mean a lout of venial makes one wanna commit mortal/ severe sin?
Please correct me if Im wrong

I cant show you how its heresy becouse I was out of line to Call it heresy in the first Place. I am truely sorry about it. I hope you can forgive it.

there must be room to disagree without having to throw accusations after another.
My accusation was entirely premature and unjustified. Sorry I offended you.

No I am aware of the difference of venial and severe sins.

I still disagree With you, but I like to withdraw all accusations of heresy.
I am in RCIA and have a Limited understanding of the Church view on this and a lot of other Things so I should have kept a lower profil. Sorry

God Bless you all!

God bless you! Thank you for your humility. It is a virtue that God loves!

 

[ExGratia]

Here is the problem I see in this statement.

“Likely fall into Venial sin”

No, we are sinful. Ever since Adam and Eve sin, man has been consumed by sin. All of the Saints frequented Confession and honestly it is a sign of a saintly person that they can recognize their own sin.

Anyone who claims they occasionally fall into Venial sin should more deeply examine their conscience. I would suggest that everyone commits Venial sins on a daily/near daily basis. For example every time you act selfishly is Venial even if slight.

The same is true for mortal sin, although maybe not a daily occurrence, I would say its tough especially in our culture to go very long without mortal sin.

Lust
Idolatry- hello anything you put above God is idolatry money and careers are huge idols.
Covet neighbors possessions- keeping up with the jones’

Bottom line Rom 3;23. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

I agree with you. I did not say “Likely to fall into venial sin occasionally”. For me personally, it is daily, several times a day. So I am not sure what you feel is problematic about the statement, but I know I agree with your summation!

 

[Jon_S_1]

I agree with you. I did not say “Likely to fall into venial sin occasionally”. For me personally, it is daily, several times a day. So I am not sure what you feel is problematic about the statement, but I know I agree with your summation!

Perhaps it’s just how it came across sometimes its tricky to interpret over the web.

 

[Robert_Joseph60]

No I do not believe it is possible. I have not heard of one person, other than Mary and Christ who has lived their lives without committing a mortal sin.

I think the only question lies in the Protestant’s culpability regarding it.

For example most Protestants think its nothing at all to miss church on Sundays for any reason. The culpability for that sin would be low because they are instructed its ok to miss church.

If Mary was sinless then why did she call Jesus her Savior?

Luk 1:46 And Mary said, "My soul magnifies the Lord,
Luk 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Robert_Joseph60]

I am sorry to hear that you have accepted this very dangerous heresy.

God is separated from sin. He cannot commingle with it. Therefore we must BE MADE RIGHTEOUS by Christ’s transforming power at death. It is this same transformation that allows us to have no more pain and no more tears because we will no longer be capable of sin.

2 Cor 5:21

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Hebrews 12:22-24

But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to** the spirits of the righteous made perfect,** 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

We must be made perfect to be in God’s presence. It is sin that separates us, and the sin MUST be removed. When we are in heaven we are not wearing a white robe over filth. Instead Christ cleanses us and transforms us into his righteousness.

Rev 21:3-4

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’** or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Rev 21:27

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. **27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, ****nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s

Further Christ is clear he judges our actions.

Matt 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Matt 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

There are many more verses we can look at. As a Biblicist I thought you would know these. It appears you are not truly a Biblicist as you will now “explain away” what is plainly written to support your preconceived beliefs and traditions.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say, since all the verses you gave compliment those who are Justified, yes YHWH will judge the actions of those who are Justified, but not to earn salvation, no human is able to be 100% perfect, and YHWH will not wink at any sins.

 

[Jon_S_1]

If Mary was sinless then why did she call Jesus her Savior?

Wow, look at the Biblicist throw all the Verses out like a shotgun blast to sift through. First these verses are all in the CAtholic Bible, Great theologians from Martin Luther to Augustine, Jerome, up to today, all have read all of these verses and many more and have no problem with Mary’s sinless nature. It takes more than just quoting verses from the Bible of the Catholic Church to argue this point. You act as if you can just take the verses from our Holy Book and butcher them to your own ends to support your own traditions.

Traditions that even your blessed reformers did not hold.

Bottom line though of course, is that Mary was saved because she said yes to God. She had the choice when the Angel approached her to carry Christ and she said yes. God created her and gave her special grace for this purpose. She was saved by Christ, for Christ and Through Christ. If Christ had not come and if MAry had not said yes to God, she would not have been preserved from the stain of original sin and she would have sinned in her life. God worked a miracle do you believe in miracles? They are in the Bible.

Some of your reformers positions on the issue.

Post Excommunication Martin Luther

"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin…"5

“In our Christian Creed we confess that Christ was conceived and became man or was incarnate (if I may so speak), that He became a real human being by assuming a body. We confess that He assumed genuine flesh and blood from the Virgin Mary that He did not pass through her as the sun shines through a glass but brought her virgin flesh and blood with Him. If this had taken place only with the co-operation of Mary, the Babe would not have been pure. But though Mary has been conceived in sin, the Holy Spirit takes her flesh and blood and purifies them; and thence He creates the body of the Son of God. This is why it is said that “He was conceived by the Holy Ghost.” Thus He assumed a genuine body from His mother Mary, but this body was cleansed from sin by the Holy Spirit. If this were not the case, we could not be saved.”6

John Calvin

"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."13

"The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned."14

"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor."15 "To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."16

Zuigli

"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin."17
Mother of God, Perpetual Virginity (ever chaste) and Immaculate Virgin Mary "I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary."18
"Christ … was born of a most undefiled Virgin."19

"It was fitting that such a holy Son should have a holy Mother."20
"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."21
"It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God."22

 

[Jon_S_1]

I’m not sure what you are trying to say, since all the verses you gave compliment those who are Justified, yes YHWH will judge the actions of those who are Justified, but not to earn salvation, no human is able to be 100% perfect, and YHWH will not wink at any sins.

Well first and foremost, you said that God will declare us righteous, and yet 2 Cor 5:21 says we will be MADE righteous.

Hebrews 12 says that we approach the spirits of the RIGHTEOUS MADE PERFECT.

Revelation Shows that nothing unclean can enter heaven. That we will be MADE RIGHTEOUS.

not declared righteous while retaining our sin nature with a white gown over it.

 

[TRH1292]

If Mary was sinless then why did she call Jesus her Savior?

Jesus is Mary’s Savior. In a sense, her Savior in an even stronger sense than perhaps he is our savior. Jesus saves us from the effects of our original sin, and our personal sin’s. But Jesus saved Mary from original sin in advanced, by preserving her from it from the very start. God, through his special grace, from the first moment of the virgin’s life, preserved her from original sin. Surely then, he deserves to be called her savior.

 

[glombo]

it dosen’t appear that many protestants or – rather other denominations, answered this inquiry–

maybe it should have been postted in non-catholic forum

but Catholics do have an obsession with – with sin in particular-- because of the emphasis on performing the sacraments to receive “imputed” grace,

generally what i have seen-- is protestant’s repent and turn from that covenant infraction.

believeing that they have a High Priest in Jesus making intersession for the saints as in the book of hebrews

 

[jmcrae]

I once followed a similar line of inquiry, even to the point of opening an online poll to discuss the question.

To my surprise, (disregarding the “I don’t know” responses), the poll came down by more than seven to three that it is “easy” for a person of good will to completely fulfill all three requirements of mortal sin (I defined “easy” as “easy to make the willful and informed decision to commit mortal sin,” not “easy to commit something that might be considered a mortal sin itself” (which is, agreeably, very easy)).

I was of the minority opinion. On this Forum, I have since been accused of being someone who claims that “nobody can ever commit a mortal sin.”

Alas. If my own protestant grandparents, and my wife’s protestant parents, are in greater danger of hellfire than most Catholics, simply because they were not Catholic (though all received valid Christian Baptism), then I am not optimistic for the fate of MANY Catholics, MOST of whom seriously neglect Sacramental Confession, and practice their Faith on a far less regular basis (and I’m not just talking about going to Sunday services. although many Catholics are lacking in this obligation as well).

God doesn’t admit us into Heaven on the curve. He doesn’t poll the world and say, “Oh - nobody’s going to Confession? Let’s take that out of the requirements then, or else no one’s going to make it! Of course, those who do will get extra credit, though.”

It is perfectly true that if most Protestants are in Hell then so are most Catholics.

There is actually no good reason that that might not, in fact, be the case.

 

[jmcrae]

To be justified is to declared legally righteous. It is a divine act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his sins. It is not that the sinner is now sinless, but that he is “declared” sinless.

Then what is the difference between Heaven and Hell? If people are still committing sin in Heaven, then what is the point of going there, or why would it be better to go to Heaven than to go to Hell?

 

[jmcrae]

The belief that a person can refrain from sin for a lifetime through their own will is commonly considered the heresy called Pelagianism.

Here’s some more information:newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm

True - that’s why we need God’s grace, given to us through the Sacraments, especially Confession and Holy Communion.

 

[jmcrae]

I fully disagree, its heresy!

As you are new to the Church, you might not be aware yet that only the Pope is allowed to say “It is heresy”.

What we are allowed to say is, “In the light of what I know of Church teaching so far, this doesn’t seem consistent. Please explain.”

 

[jmcrae]

it dosen’t appear that many protestants or – rather other denominations, answered this inquiry–

maybe it should have been postted in non-catholic forum

but Catholics do have an obsession with – with sin in particular-- because of the emphasis on performing the sacraments to receive “imputed” grace,

We receive the Sacraments (we don’t “perform” them), and through them, we receive actual grace. The Sacraments come from Jesus on the Cross, dying for our sins.

 

[Robert_Joseph60]

Wow, look at the Biblicist throw all the Verses out like a shotgun blast to sift through. First these verses are all in the CAtholic Bible, Great theologians from Martin Luther to Augustine, Jerome, up to today, all have read all of these verses and many more and have no problem with Mary’s sinless nature. It takes more than just quoting verses from the Bible of the Catholic Church to argue this point. You act as if you can just take the verses from our Holy Book and butcher them to your own ends to support your own traditions.

Traditions that even your blessed reformers did not hold.

Bottom line though of course, is that Mary was saved because she said yes to God. She had the choice when the Angel approached her to carry Christ and she said yes. God created her and gave her special grace for this purpose. She was saved by Christ, for Christ and Through Christ. If Christ had not come and if MAry had not said yes to God, she would not have been preserved from the stain of original sin and she would have sinned in her life. God worked a miracle do you believe in miracles? They are in the Bible.

Some of your reformers positions on the issue.

Post Excommunication Martin Luther

"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin…"5

“In our Christian Creed we confess that Christ was conceived and became man or was incarnate (if I may so speak), that He became a real human being by assuming a body. We confess that He assumed genuine flesh and blood from the Virgin Mary that He did not pass through her as the sun shines through a glass but brought her virgin flesh and blood with Him. If this had taken place only with the co-operation of Mary, the Babe would not have been pure. But though Mary has been conceived in sin, the Holy Spirit takes her flesh and blood and purifies them; and thence He creates the body of the Son of God. This is why it is said that “He was conceived by the Holy Ghost.” Thus He assumed a genuine body from His mother Mary, but this body was cleansed from sin by the Holy Spirit. If this were not the case, we could not be saved.”6

John Calvin

"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."13

"The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned."14

"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor."15 "To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."16

Zuigli

"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin."17
Mother of God, Perpetual Virginity (ever chaste) and Immaculate Virgin Mary "I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary."18
"Christ … was born of a most undefiled Virgin."19

"It was fitting that such a holy Son should have a holy Mother."20
"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."21
"It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God."22

Jesus is Mary’s Savior. In a sense, her Savior in an even stronger sense than perhaps he is our savior. Jesus saves us from the effects of our original sin, and our personal sin’s. But Jesus saved Mary from original sin in advanced, by preserving her from it from the very start. God, through his special grace, from the first moment of the virgin’s life, preserved her from original sin. Surely then, he deserves to be called her savior.

If you cannot show scriptural evidence for the above statement saying Mary was saved from original sin from birth, then I must conclude you’re statement to be just one of another opioion of billions of opinions, which I trash.

 

[Robert_Joseph60]

As you are new to the Church, you might not be aware yet that only the Pope is allowed to say “It is heresy”.

What we are allowed to say is, “In the light of what I know of Church teaching so far, this doesn’t seem consistent. Please explain.”

I’m noticing many is this forum flapping their lips with zero scriptural evidence, just another opinion of billions of other baseless opinions which are usless without evidence from our Canon of 66 books.

Scripture tells me the following.

.2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Tit_1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.