Is it possible for a protestant to avoid mortal sin for their entire life?

[Paul_Fekete]

Yeah it’s a difficult distinction to make using Sola Scriptura. You definitely can point out John 20 and also James 5. James 5 says “confess your sins one to another”. This is in the context of calling in the elders of the church. So that sounds very sacramental to me. At the very least you can ask why they don’t do this. It says in the Bible to confess your sins to one another so why don’t you? They don’t even confess to their peers usually.

After getting the gears in the head turning, perhaps they will listen to history and the tradition of the church where confession can be seen in the earliest times.

The protestants I talk to say that they do confess their sins to each other per James 5 even though they admit that many protestants do not practice confession to other people. Sometimes they confess them to their peers and sometimes to their pastors when they need wise counsel. Either way they are confessing their sins to other people. The distinction they make is that they do not beleive they need to confess their sins to another person in order to receive absolution from God. They will say that temporal healing comes when you confess to other people, but that absolution comes when they are truly born again and the Holy Spirit comes to live inside them.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

I once followed a similar line of inquiry, even to the point of opening an online poll to discuss the question.

To my surprise, (disregarding the “I don’t know” responses), the poll came down by more than seven to three that it is “easy” for a person of good will to completely fulfill all three requirements of mortal sin (I defined “easy” as “easy to make the willful and informed decision to commit mortal sin,” not “easy to commit something that might be considered a mortal sin itself” (which is, agreeably, very easy)).

I was of the minority opinion. On this Forum, I have since been accused of being someone who claims that “nobody can ever commit a mortal sin.”

Alas. If my own protestant grandparents, and my wife’s protestant parents, are in greater danger of hellfire than most Catholics, simply because they were not Catholic (though all received valid Christian Baptism), then I am not optimistic for the fate of MANY Catholics, MOST of whom seriously neglect Sacramental Confession, and practice their Faith on a far less regular basis (and I’m not just talking about going to Sunday services. although many Catholics are lacking in this obligation as well).

That poll is very interesting and it confirms that I think it is very easy for a protestant to break God’s moral law with both full knowledge and consent. Perhaps one of the reasons so many Catholics neglect sacramental confession is because they secretly agree with protestants that they can go directly to God for the forgiveness of their mortal sins? Could it be that since Catholic doctrine teaches that protestant baptism is valid that Catholics assume, as long as they are baptized, that they and their baptized protestants friends/family are going to heaven?

 

[Paul_Fekete]

And point this out too:

Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

My questio here would be: Why did God, who spoke directly to Eliphaz, not just forgive him directly? And why did God order him to go through Job?

What was God’s point in telling Eliphaz to go through Job?

Thanks for sharing these verses from Job. While this is one example of where God asked someone else to pray to God in their place I do not think that is the major theme of the story when read in context. These passages from Job are not an Epistle describing how the new covenant church should function. It seems that not being able to go directly to God was a specific punishment for Eliphaz and the rest of Job’s friends. God was teaching Eliphaz and the rest of Job’s friends that they needed to be more like Job by only allowing the prayers of Job to be heard. Also, in many other places in the Old testament many people (like King David) go directly to God to ask for the forgiveness of their sins. The point is that it seems at best the Bible allows for absolution to be a route to receive forgiveness, but the Bible, from what I read, does not teach that it is the only way. One needs to add logic and the Catechism to state that absolution is the only way to have your mortal sins forgiven. This could be why there is some disagreement around this.

 

[Croc]

I have this one simple question. One of the 2 thieves who were crucified together with Jesus told him to remember him when he’d come back with his authority. Jesus replied to him that he’d be with him in paradise that day.

If just a simple confession made a condemned sinner change his eternal destiny, why put unnecessary loads on people to enter paradise?

 

[Jon_S_1]

I have this one simple question. One of the 2 thieves who were crucified together with Jesus told him to remember him when he’d come back with his authority. Jesus replied to him that he’d be with him in paradise that day.

If just a simple confession made a condemned sinner change his eternal destiny, why put unnecessary loads on people to enter paradise?

Are you under the belief that how we live our lives matters for nothing?

Like I can confess Jesus as Lord, and when the flare wears off in a few months, I can live the rest of my life in defiance of God, seeking sin, choosing sin, and be A Ok on the last day?

 

[jmcrae]

I have this one simple question. One of the 2 thieves who were crucified together with Jesus told him to remember him when he’d come back with his authority. Jesus replied to him that he’d be with him in paradise that day.

If just a simple confession made a condemned sinner change his eternal destiny, why put unnecessary loads on people to enter paradise?

Deathbed conversions are certainly possible, but they are not normative. Priests hear death-bed Confessions all the time - mostly from people who have recently been to Confession before their illness struck them down, and who have been practicing their faith for their entire lives. Every once in a while someone calls who wants to convert at the last moment of life on earth, but it is very rare.

I have been in a situation where I thought I was dying, and not only did I not think of praying, it did not occur to me to ask for a priest. When you are that sick, you aren’t thinking straight, so my recommendation would be to make your conversion while you are still well, and live according to God’s law during this life, so that when you are that sick, you will already have the habits of life that you will need, to be able to think of saying your last prayers and call on a priest for the Last Rites. But habits not developed during your lifetime will not suddenly appear at the moment of death, in most cases.

 

[CatholicHockey7]

Are you under the belief that how we live our lives matters for nothing?

Like I can confess Jesus as Lord, and when the flare wears off in a few months, I can live the rest of my life in defiance of God, seeking sin, choosing sin, and be A Ok on the last day?

I don’t think that’s what the post was saying. I think he’s referring to the fact the thief said “we deserve this punishment.” It wasn’t just a profession of faith, but also a confession of past wrongs.

I have this one simple question. One of the 2 thieves who were crucified together with Jesus told him to remember him when he’d come back with his authority. Jesus replied to him that he’d be with him in paradise that day.

If just a simple confession made a condemned sinner change his eternal destiny, why put unnecessary loads on people to enter paradise?

Croc, why don’t you ask God that? The “unnecessary loads” you refer to come from His Sacred Scriptures. He says time and again how much He loves us, and wants us to love Him in return.

James 1:21-25, “Therefore, ridding yourselves of all moral filth and evil excess, humbly receive the implanted word, which is able to save you. But be doers of the word and not hearers only; deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his own face in a mirror; for he looks at himself, goes away, and right away forgets what kind of man he was. But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom and perseveres in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts - this person will be blessed in what he does.”

James 2:26, " For just as the body without is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

1 Corinthians 6:12, “‘Everything is permissible for me,’ but not everything is helpful. ‘Everything is permissible for me,’ but I will not be brought under the control of anything.”

In order for us to show God and others that we love Him, He asks us to make sacrifices. He asks us to give up certain behaviors. They aren’t easy, which is why He established His Church to help us along the way.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

It is possible, but definitely not probable. Good for him who does
not sin much, praise God, but no matter what, we all need Jesus.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

ALL on planet Earth–Catholic and non Catholic alike and Protestants included–IF they die in a state of mortal sin as judged by God–they all go to the same Hell!

It is possible for ALL to mortally sin. Even if you know of NO religion you can still mortally sin because the Natural Law is written upon all human hearts.

It is EXTREMELY difficult for a Protestant to avoid mortal sin their entire life–for that matter it is EXTREMELY difficult for a Catholic to avoid mortal sin their entire life, too.

A Catholic can receive the sacrament of reconciliation and be granted forgiveness of mortal sin even if they are only imperfectly contrite.

What about Protestants? How does God judge a Protestant who does not know of the Catholic faith and the need for sacramental confession and then then MORTALLY sins? What level of contrition does God require of them? We do not know but we DO KNOW that it would be POSSIBLE for God to work outside the sacraments.

But WHY OH WHY take chances? Join the Catholic faith–everyday ask God for forgiveness of your venial sins–take the Eucharist frequently and go to confession when you MORTALLY sin–THAT is the best way to avoid Hell!

People outside FORMAL union with the Catholic faith can be saved–that does not mean that necessarily a great percentage are saved.

The best way to reach Jesus and Eternal life is through the Catholic faith!

 

[Brandall]

I wish I could say that I read this entire thread prior to responding but at a count of over 2700, that isn’t going to happen this late in the game.

I’m in RCIA and not totally sure how I feel about the subject in many different ways but am working my way through it.

My understanding is, regarding what makes a sin mortal is;
Three conditions for mortal sin

There are three conditions that make an act a mortal sin:

An act of grave matter that is…
Committed with full knowledge and…
Deliberate consent.

Not long after our class on “sin”, I had a scheduled meeting with the RCIA director. I had a question that came to mind during the class but wasn’t willing to put forth in a room filled with so many women of childbearing ages, even though these women were seeking communion with the Catholic Church. My question was, what if a woman had bought into the arguments of the pro abortionists that destroying an embryo wasn’t an evil, would her getting an abortion be a venial or a mortal sin since she didn’t realize that it was a grave matter. His response, and btw, he did appreciate the fact that I didn’t ask the question in the class and avoided the class getting sidetracked, was that since she didn’t know it was grave, she couldn’t have committed it with full knowledge, therefore, it was venial.

How does all of this apply to protestants? When I was a member of the Baptist Church, we, along with many other communions, were taught that when we sinned, which of course, we were to avoid sin, we just needed to confess to God/Jesus, ask for forgiveness and repent. Therefore, when I was a Baptist, I knew nothing of mortal and venial and could have not met the second condition of committing a grave sin with full knowledge. I’m not sure that a protestant can meet all three conditions.

I’m not married to any of this and am willing to learn but that is what is coming to my mind.

Given this, does it seem like someone with no knowledge of the Catholic Church have an advantage? Yes and no. If ignorance is forgiven, and it appears the CCC teaches such, then yes. As far as the depth of spirituality, obviously not. When I started seeking an alternative I was literally blown away when I attended my Catholic Church as a seeker. I’m blown away in near every mass I attend.

 

[jmcrae]

I wish I could say that I read this entire thread prior to responding but at a count of over 2700, that isn’t going to happen this late in the game.

I’m in RCIA and not totally sure how I feel about the subject in many different ways but am working my way through it.

My understanding is, regarding what makes a sin mortal is;
Three conditions for mortal sin

There are three conditions that make an act a mortal sin:

An act of grave matter that is…
Committed with full knowledge and…
Deliberate consent.

Not long after our class on “sin”, I had a scheduled meeting with the RCIA director. I had a question that came to mind during the class but wasn’t willing to put forth in a room filled with so many women of childbearing ages, even though these women were seeking communion with the Catholic Church. My question was, what if a woman had bought into the arguments of the pro abortionists that destroying an embryo wasn’t an evil, would her getting an abortion be a venial or a mortal sin since she didn’t realize that it was a grave matter. His response, and btw, he did appreciate the fact that I didn’t ask the question in the class and avoided the class getting sidetracked, was that since she didn’t know it was grave, she couldn’t have committed it with full knowledge, therefore, it was venial.

How does all of this apply to protestants? When I was a member of the Baptist Church, we, along with many other communions, were taught that when we sinned, which of course, we were to avoid sin, we just needed to confess to God/Jesus, ask for forgiveness and repent. Therefore, when I was a Baptist, I knew nothing of mortal and venial and could have not met the second condition of committing a grave sin with full knowledge. I’m not sure that a protestant can meet all three conditions.

I’m not married to any of this and am willing to learn but that is what is coming to my mind.

Given this, does it seem like someone with no knowledge of the Catholic Church have an advantage? Yes and no. If ignorance is forgiven, and it appears the CCC teaches such, then yes. As far as the depth of spirituality, obviously not. When I started seeking an alternative I was literally blown away when I attended my Catholic Church as a seeker. I’m blown away in near every mass I attend.

I don’t think the level of knowledge requires that you know what kind of wrong you did; otherwise a violent person who has deliberately decided not to believe that sin exists at all (Leaving aside persons with mental illnesses) would be fast-tracking to the highest level of Heaven - which I don’t think is reasonable to believe, since it flies in the face of justice.