Is it possible for the US gov to mandate Catholic church to ordain woman?

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Geist said:
They exist.

romancatholicwomenpriests.org/ordained.htm

i personally don’t see a problem with it, but, there you have it.
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Pope John Paul II in ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS:
  1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
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From ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS Emphasis mine.

This is not only an infallible statement, it is hard to see how it could be more authoritatively stated.
 
Callum said:
It’s only a matter of time in the UK before the Church is outlawed for failing to meet a 50% quota for female ordination and refusing to officiate ““gay” “marriages”” …
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What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a liberal demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.
The indispensable condition for our personal spiritual survival is that we say NO to the prevailing values of the liberal order and that we keep saying NO.
 
Callum said:
It’s only a matter of time in the UK before the Church is outlawed for failing to meet a 50% quota for female ordination and refusing to officiate ““gay” “marriages””.
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Wouldn’t be the first time the church was outlawed in England.
 
Geist said:
They exist.

romancatholicwomenpriests.org/ordained.htm

i personally don’t see a problem with it, but, there you have it.
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They can claim anything they want, but it doesn’t make it so. There are no women who have been given the Sacrament of Holy Orders in the Catholic Church. Maybe there have been some who have been through an ordination ceremony, but no Sacrament took place, if they did. They are ordinary lay people, who are probably excommunicated now from the Church.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
Catholic colleges, like all private colleges do take large amounts of taxpayer funds, and many members of their faculty and staff are not Catholic. Their primary purpose is educating people in their chosen fields, not spreading the word of god.

Churches, even ones with outside music directors, are set up primarily for worship and spreading their religious message. They do not receive tax dollars to fulfill their primary purpose (which is religious).
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Catholic colleges and churches share the same tax benefit. They are exempt from most taxes as not-for-profit institutions. Most Catholic colleges do not receive any direct taxpayer funds; they receive money indirectly when students have federal financial aid or federally guaranteed student loans. The same could be said of Churches when they accept donations from parishioners who may be recieving SSI, a government salary or welfare.

Both Catholic colleges and Catholic Churches have a religious purpose - one is worship and the other is a Catholic education.

I am not trying to argue necessarily that the government** will **try to exert control over ordinations. However, they already exert control over some employment decisions at the parish level. We currently have an administration that has gone into areas that would have been constitutionally unthinkable even a decade ago. I think they will go for as much control as they can get away with. The idea that there would be government rules about the sacrament of ordination is not that far flung from the idea that there would be government controls over the sacrament of marriage (which they have already done).
 
Corki said:
The idea that there would be government rules about the sacrament of ordination is not that far flung from the idea that there would be government controls over the sacrament of marriage (which they have already done).
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How has the US government exerted control over the Catholic sacrament of marriage?
 
Dale_M said:
How has the US government exerted control over the Catholic sacrament of marriage?
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Notice, I didn’t say the *Catholic *Sacrament of marriage. 😉 Remember, even the Church views as sacramental all marriages between baptized Christians (as long as there is no defect of form).

Nor did I specify the US Government (ie federal) as the controller.

I bet you are thinking I will say that same-sex marriage law is the government exerting control over marriage. I think that is imminent but that’s not the example I was thinking of.

The most usual way that the government exerts control over marriage is by assuming the power to dissolve marrage and forcing even Churches to recognize divorce and remarriage.

We see this most clearly with employment. When a Church employs someone who has been divorced and remarried, the Church is forced to treat the new “marriage” as if it was a legitimate marriage. The second “spouse” must be covered with benefits in the same manner as those in real Sacramental marriages. The laws for non-discrimination allow for religious exceptions but there is no practical way to exercise that with regard to marital status.

The state is also exerting control over the sacrament of marriage when it allows no-faulty divorce. The Church civilly witnesses marriage within the context of a sharing of vows that include “til death do us part” yet the state is allowed to ignore that vow and dissolve the civil union severed from its context.
 
Wasn’t there a push for exactly that (state-mandated ordination of women) in New England somewhere recently? Connecticut, I think?
 
Corki said:
Notice, I didn’t say the *Catholic *Sacrament of marriage. 😉 Remember, even the Church views as sacramental all marriages between baptized Christians (as long as there is no defect of form).
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Indeed, but that is only because the Church defines it as such. The government also recognizes the clergy of other religions to be equivalent to Catholic priests. However, the Church defines its priesthood more narrowly.
Corki said:
I bet you are thinking I will say that same-sex marriage law is the government exerting control over marriage. I think that is imminent but that’s not the example I was thinking of.

The most usual way that the government exerts control over marriage is by assuming the power to dissolve marrage and forcing even Churches to recognize divorce and remarriage.

We see this most clearly with employment. When a Church employs someone who has been divorced and remarried, the Church is forced to treat the new “marriage” as if it was a legitimate marriage. The second “spouse” must be covered with benefits in the same manner as those in real Sacramental marriages.t.
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In the example you cited, the regulations applies to legal marriages recognized by the government. If a marriage has been legally dissolved, then a new marriage can be legally recognized and it is entitled to all the legal benefits.

However, the government does not undo sacramental marriages. When the Catholic Church says that an original marriage is intact, then the second marriage can not sacramental and the two people are committing adultery.

If the religious employer puts in a morality clause, saying that employees need to adhere to the morality of the religion, then the employee can be fired. At least, that is how it happens in the US ( I admit I am not sure what country you are referring to.)
 
No… that would be up to the church to decide. And we all know the answer to that. It wont happen. But that’s okay. Why not just be a nun?
 
GEddie said:
They could try it. But the Church would not, could not comply.

The result would likely be a nationwide interdict of the USA, comparable to what happened in Mexico in 1924, after the civil government claimed the power to appoint men to the priesthood.

ICXC NIKA
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What would a nationwide interdict mean for Catholics in the US? And where can I find information concerning Mexico 1924?
 
Armyvet007 said:
What would a nationwide interdict mean for Catholics in the US? And where can I find information concerning Mexico 1924?
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I believe it means that the Catholic Church would suspend public worship indefinitely, while absolving American Catholics of their duty to attend mass.

The Mexican event he mentioned concerned the Catholic Church’s (I believe unprecedented) suspension of worship during its persecution by the nation’s socialist government. The peasants would have none of it and proceeded to rebel against the government, which was brutally suppressed (with America’s help, and the Church’s regrettable complicity). Look up the terms “Cristiada” and “Cristero War” or “Cristero rebellion.” I think Jean Meyer had a good book on the topic.
 
sw85 said:
I believe it means that the Catholic Church would suspend public worship indefinitely, while absolving American Catholics of their duty to attend mass.

The Mexican event he mentioned concerned the Catholic Church’s (I believe unprecedented) suspension of worship during its persecution by the nation’s socialist government. The peasants would have none of it and proceeded to rebel against the government, which was brutally suppressed (with America’s help, and the Church’s regrettable complicity). Look up the terms “Cristiada” and “Cristero War” or “Cristero rebellion.” I think Jean Meyer had a good book on the topic.
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A movie was recently made on the Cristero Rebellion with a really stellar cast (Peter O’Toole, Ruben Blades, Eva Longoria, Andy Garcia). It looks like a really well-made and exciting film, but it’s been awaiting a distribution deal in the U.S. for a whlle - probably because Hollywood is very uncomfortable with films where the Catholics are the Good Guys. Here’s the trailer:

cristiadafilm.com/
 
Layman_F said:
For the sake of argument, the Boy Scouts of America have female boy scouts. Wasn’t that a court decided action? Isn’t that similar in nature to OP’s scenario?
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Actually, the other way around. There are female venturing scouts (HS age and above) which is an auxiliary organization to the main Boy Scouts organization, which does not have female members. The Girl Scouts have a male member who is a boy who decided he has a female identity. Neither happened in response to a court action.

The Bill of Rights provides for freedom of association, which includes the right, as the Supreme Court has decided, to exclude people from a private organization. This actually protects the rights of all people, as it prevents a group with stated goals from being infiltrated by those with values inimical to the organization. For example, a group of men could join the National Organization of Women in such numbers as to change their focus and vote that their financial reserves be diverted to objectives with which NOW disagreed, or a group of Jewish students could join the Muslim Student Association and force a statement of solidarity with Israel. The KKK could (theoretically) try to take over the NAACP. And so forth.

This constitutional right would apply to the Catholic Church. Of course, there is also a constitutional right to freedom of religion, and that’s being ignored…🤷
 
Arizona_Mike said:
A movie was recently made on the Cristero Rebellion with a really stellar cast (Peter O’Toole, Ruben Blades, Eva Longoria, Andy Garcia). It looks like a really well-made and exciting film, but it’s been awaiting a distribution deal in the U.S. for a whlle - probably because Hollywood is very uncomfortable with films where the Catholics are the Good Guys. Here’s the trailer:

cristiadafilm.com/
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Wow. Was it released anywhere?

The other post regarding national interdict sounds about right. That was in effect what took place in Mexico from 1924 to 1927. The churches were sealed; priests went into hiding; Masses were offered only in basements and similar private venues. (My Grandma, God rest her, remembered going to Mass in people’s basements as a little girl in Tampico, MX.)

The instigating event for the interdict was the civil government’s assertion of command over the priesthood, as is being imagined in this thread. The issue then was not women, rather the forcing upon the Church of men chosen by the revolutionary regime.

There has been relatively little written in English about that time. You might start with MEXICAN MARTYRDOM, published by TAN Books.

ICXC NIKA
 
One wouldn’t think so according to the First Amendment, but then with Obama all things are possible. Especially evil things.
 
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