Is it possible that one Church may not work as well for someone as another?

[WoundedIcon]

I’m a Roman Catholic who, by brief contact with Orthodoxy while searching for The Truth™, keeps stopping by to smell the roses in the Byzantine Church but can never bring himself to transfer. I don’t know why, but my will seems determined to stay Roman even though the rest of me seems to go with the flow of the Eastern patrimony much better. Something about the theology and culture I say - I like my Latin, statues, Mozart, and St. Thomas Aquinas… but I keep having this niggling thought of what if… what if I would, for some reason, fare better in my life through Eastern spirituality? I don’t know why, but I always feel such a disconnect at Mass, or with the prayers in the books and the devotions and such, and the main reason I don’t switch over - my love for the exacting, academic nature of Latin theology - is actually one of the things that seriously derails me because of the way I think as someone with Asperger’s Syndrome. I get extremely hung up on theological nuances to the detriment of my general spirituality.

Is it at all possible that I’m actually hurting myself by not transferring? It just strikes me as odd that someone could be “incompatible” with one of the Churches’ way of doing things to this degree. It’s not as though I don’t have some divine impetus to practice Eastern Spirituality, as it seems that every time I ask St. Therese for a rose to show me I should to do it I get it. But being scrupulous as I am, I dunno I just feel like I’m running away instead of towards. Not to mention I’d miss out on some of the ascetical traditions due to my diabetes… then again, I understand that my illnesses would basically BE my asceticism.

Okay… so the one thing really holding me back is the difference in the handling of theology. And the theology is a source of pride for me not to mention I tend to use my understanding of things to help me feel in control… and I keep crucifying myself on it… but surely I can fix that… and there’s the more progressive feel of the Roman Church too that keeps me… not to mention I just feel like there’s a different attitude toward charismatic gifts and miracles and mysticism and such…

/head meet wall

 

[ConstantineTG]

The reason we have so many different rites and traditions is because as human beings we are limited in so many ways, and there is no catch-all solution for us. Its always, what works for one will definitely not work for all. So God came to us and gave us the different rites, akin to Pentecost when the Apostles started preaching in different languages. God came to meet us at our level, when Christ became flesh and spoke in our language, walked in our paths, and shared in our life. A tradition more fitting to you is God’s gift. If you feel that you are more comfortable in the Byzantine Rite than in the Latin Rite, then go to the Byzantine Rite. Its not because the Latin Rite is lacking, its because you, like the rest of us, are humans and have many limitations.

 

[grandfather]

I’m a Roman Catholic who, by brief contact with Orthodoxy while searching for The Truth™, keeps stopping by to smell the roses in the Byzantine Church but can never bring himself to transfer. I don’t know why, but my will seems determined to stay Roman even though the rest of me seems to go with the flow of the Eastern patrimony much better. Something about the theology and culture I say - I like my Latin, statues, Mozart, and St. Thomas Aquinas… but I keep having this niggling thought of what if… what if I would, for some reason, fare better in my life through Eastern spirituality? I don’t know why, but I always feel such a disconnect at Mass, or with the prayers in the books and the devotions and such, and the main reason I don’t switch over - my love for the exacting, academic nature of Latin theology - is actually one of the things that seriously derails me because of the way I think as someone with Asperger’s Syndrome. I get extremely hung up on theological nuances to the detriment of my general spirituality.

Is it at all possible that I’m actually hurting myself by not transferring? It just strikes me as odd that someone could be “incompatible” with one of the Churches’ way of doing things to this degree. It’s not as though I don’t have some divine impetus to practice Eastern Spirituality, as it seems that every time I ask St. Therese for a rose to show me I should to do it I get it. But being scrupulous as I am, I dunno I just feel like I’m running away instead of towards. Not to mention I’d miss out on some of the ascetical traditions due to my diabetes… then again, I understand that my illnesses would basically BE my asceticism.

Okay… so the one thing really holding me back is the difference in the handling of theology. And the theology is a source of pride for me not to mention I tend to use my understanding of things to help me feel in control… and I keep crucifying myself on it… but surely I can fix that… and there’s the more progressive feel of the Roman Church too that keeps me… not to mention I just feel like there’s a different attitude toward charismatic gifts and miracles and mysticism and such…

/head meet wall

You really beat yourself up. Whatever the problem is, it is not which rite you belong to. Switching rites will not bring you peace or stop you from being scrupulous, banging your head against the wall, agonizing over imaginations, or straining at gnats.

What do you do with your spare time? What interests or hobbies do you have? How do you relax?

 

[Joseph_LaMothe]

I agree that,

Its not because the Latin Rite is lacking, its because you, like the rest of us, are humans and have many limitations.

But not with the conclusion. All Rites are equal in majesty and when we miss something in our own rite the defect is with us. That being said, some Rites focus more obviously on some aspects of the Truth than others.

My experience is that I am Latin and my Wife is Ukrainian. We both love our own Sui Iuris Churches, and are enriched by our experience of the other’s liturgical and theological heritage. I understand where you are coming from see great things in both and feeling torn between two really good things. I would say, pour everything you learn from other traditions into enriching the Rite you where baptized in. This is what the cannons favour. It is often tricky to change Sui Iuris Church if you are not a marriage of mixed Rites.

However, the Church is more favourable to Latins becoming members of the smaller Rites than the smaller ones being absorbed into the Latin Church.

All this being said: You can attend ANY Catholic Church and it fulfills your Sunday Obligation. It is easy to just go to another rite’s service, and you should do so, at least on occasion. My wife and I go to Divine Liturgy more than Mass even though I am Latin and this does not change the fact I am Latin. Experience all the wonder that the East has to offer. You don’t need to worry about what “kind” of Catholic you are unless you are having children than it has an effect on what type of priest they will become.

Blessings.

 

[jwinch2]

There is no reason that you could not attend Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Parish and still read and study Western Theology and Spirituality. For example, I know of a Dominican Friar who is bi-ritual and was recently assigned as an Eastern Catholic Pastor. On the other side of the equation, my Pastor was raised and ordained as a Syro-Malabar Catholic but is also bi-ritual and serves in a Roman Catholic Parish.

The wonderful thing about the Catholic faith is that we can draw from those different traditions and still stay within the Church. If you are drawn to Eastern Liturgy and devotions but wish to retain some of your Latin personal devotions and study, I cannot think of any reason why you cannot do just that.

Peace,

 

[WoundedIcon]

You really beat yourself up. Whatever the problem is, it is not which rite you belong to. Switching rites will not bring you peace or stop you from being scrupulous, banging your head against the wall, agonizing over imaginations, or straining at gnats.

What do you do with your spare time? What interests or hobbies do you have? How do you relax?

I know I’m scrupulous, but a lot of it is out of my hands right now. I’m mentally ill and one of my meds hasn’t been working for me for months (but I just realized that was indeed the problem) and I can’t get any help for it for a while because the hospital won’t admit me, the other ward at a community center is full, and my appointment with my prescribing nurse isn’t for another month. I can’t say I was even scrupulous until that med stopped working - anxious, sure - but not over religious matters. I was socially phobic for a while there, and the medication that stopped working had helped me over that but once it failed I seemed to transfer my fears of what others can do to me for being imperfect over to God. So, I’m not deathly afraid going out, I’m just afraid of Someone who’s omnipresent! So I’ve become very rigorous and have a perfectionist form of scruples. Trust me when I say that I know my fears are irrational, but also trust me when I say that it doesn’t matter either way with the state I’m in because I can’t reason myself out of this paper bag. Everything in my mind gets filtered through the lens of depression and anxiety and the most I can do is console myself that there’s always Purgatory. I feel like I’ve been taken over, because when my depression (fleetingly) lifts I’m very peaceful and contemplative and carefree. I don’t get caught up in this nitpicking and rationalization.

The med crapped out on me right when I converted too. Nice one, Satan.

Needless to say, I don’t get much relaxation. Don’t have any friends around here, haven’t really formed any bonds at my parish (not to mention I only notice one other person of my age who’s regularly there), and when I’m capable of relaxing I usually just indulge in some TV or worship God contemplatively through other simple pleasures I can get my hands on (a good drink or food, some music, etc.) I have a very unhealthy living situation right now that has me living with, and dependent upon, a family member who’s more mentally unwell than me in some ways and seeing as we’re both disabled and jobless (and seeing as that we’re of different religions, cultural backgrounds, interests, and separated in age by 40 years) I feel like the fixins’ in a sandpaper sandwich.

It’s kind of a jeckel and hyde thing. My greatest strengths devil out on me when my illness kicks in and I go from being a curious contemplative to a rigorous walking perplexity.

 

[Vico]

I’m a Roman Catholic who, by brief contact with Orthodoxy while searching for The Truth™, keeps stopping by to smell the roses in the Byzantine Church but can never bring himself to transfer. I don’t know why, but my will seems determined to stay Roman even though the rest of me seems to go with the flow of the Eastern patrimony much better. Something about the theology and culture I say - I like my Latin, statues, Mozart, and St. Thomas Aquinas… but I keep having this niggling thought of what if… what if I would, for some reason, fare better in my life through Eastern spirituality? I don’t know why, but I always feel such a disconnect at Mass, or with the prayers in the books and the devotions and such, and the main reason I don’t switch over - my love for the exacting, academic nature of Latin theology - is actually one of the things that seriously derails me because of the way I think as someone with Asperger’s Syndrome. I get extremely hung up on theological nuances to the detriment of my general spirituality.

Is it at all possible that I’m actually hurting myself by not transferring? It just strikes me as odd that someone could be “incompatible” with one of the Churches’ way of doing things to this degree. It’s not as though I don’t have some divine impetus to practice Eastern Spirituality, as it seems that every time I ask St. Therese for a rose to show me I should to do it I get it. But being scrupulous as I am, I dunno I just feel like I’m running away instead of towards. Not to mention I’d miss out on some of the ascetical traditions due to my diabetes… then again, I understand that my illnesses would basically BE my asceticism.

Okay… so the one thing really holding me back is the difference in the handling of theology. And the theology is a source of pride for me not to mention I tend to use my understanding of things to help me feel in control… and I keep crucifying myself on it… but surely I can fix that… and there’s the more progressive feel of the Roman Church too that keeps me… not to mention I just feel like there’s a different attitude toward charismatic gifts and miracles and mysticism and such…

/head meet wall

Canon 112 (NCCCL, Beal, Coriden, Green)
“… because ascription to a ritual church is definitive, it belongs to the status of persons. Consequently, affiliation is understood as belonging to constitutive law and not merely to disciplinary law (cf. CLD 9, 51). According to Pastor Bonus 58, the Congregation for the Eastern Churches is competent to judge the status of persons relative to rite.”

Merriam-Webster: status 3: state or condition with respect to circumstances <the status of the negotiations>

Remember that the bishops must approve any transfer, it is not under your control, only your initiative.

 

[MarkosC]

WoundedIcon,

Just IMO, and my deepest apologies if this comes across as condescending, but it sounds like “east vs. west” is not your problem. Rather, your most pressing problem is to find a community to worship of any rite in that you’re confortable with, and then a spiritual father who you feel comfortable talking about these things with.

I think once you have/are settled into such things, these other problems will become easier. I pray that you can find/ can grow in such an environment.

 

[SecretGarden]

Being a church hopper for many years which has included about three denominations and about 10 churches over the past 13 years. I think you need to stop asking yourself about theology and ask yourself, where do you find Christ? Where can you pray and communicate with him freely? Rites, and statues can become simple rituals and decorations when Christ isn’t at the centre of everything. I suggest that you first read the following prayer and then when you are ready, pray it with all of your heart.

If you pray it, and ask God to enter your heart, God will guide you to the place He wants you to be. Christ lives in all of the churches you have attended plus many more as well.

Good luck,
SG

“Heavenly Father, have mercy on me, a sinner. I believe in you and that your word is true. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that he died on the cross so that I may now have forgiveness for my sins and eternal life. I know that without you in my heart my life is meaningless. I believe in my heart that you, Lord God, raised Him from the dead. Please Jesus forgive me, for every sin I have ever committed or done in my heart, please Lord Jesus forgive me and come into my heart as my personal Lord and Savior today. I need you to be my Father and my friend.
I give you my life and ask you to take full control from this moment on; I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ.”
Amen.

 

[grandfather]

God loves you. He made your soul our of nothing for a purpose. That purpose is to love and be loved. It is for you to know and love Him. It is for you to know His love.

I am praying for a man who is a Catholic convert and in danger in his natve Muslim country. Would you pray for this man also? Would you offer your suffering of mental illness, the fear and anquish you suffer and depression for this young man’s safety and holiness and salvation.

He is like you in that he is all alone. He has no other Christians to be with or pray with. His family also is of another religion and are angry with him. You have a social phobia and remain alone. He also is very alone.

He emailed me yesterday asking for the prayers of fellow Christians. Living his daith is difficult, because he is so isolated.

 

[WoundedIcon]

God loves you. He made your soul our of nothing for a purpose. That purpose is to love and be loved. It is for you to know and love Him. It is for you to know His love.

I am praying for a man who is a Catholic convert and in danger in his natve Muslim country. Would you pray for this man also? Would you offer your suffering of mental illness, the fear and anquish you suffer and depression for this young man’s safety and holiness and salvation.

He is like you in that he is all alone. He has no other Christians to be with or pray with. His family also is of another religion and are angry with him. You have a social phobia and remain alone. He also is very alone.

He emailed me yesterday asking for the prayers of fellow Christians. Living his daith is difficult, because he is so isolated.

I will.

 

[FooFee]

@WoundedIcon.
Many people have responded to your question and I believe that their recommendations are good and true, but I would like to address now an important aspect that the others may have overlooked. I, like yourself, am an adult Catholic convert with Aspergers Syndrome. I understand fully the battle that you fight daily. When I converted to Catholicism, I was attacked viciously by the enemy. Like yourself, I felt utterly alone and felt constant temptation to despair. This is what the enemy is tempting you to do; to despair. I can hear it in your words and I know how terribly empty those feelings can be. Know that you are not alone. I’ve been there and done that and I have a remedy. One of the most pronounced aspects of our form of autism is ‘racing thoughts’. Our minds seem to run a million miles an hour without rest day and night. Some people call it a curse, but I choose to call it a gift. I have found a way to manage my Aspergers and I strongly recommend it to you. Pray the Rosary daily.
While ‘racing thoughts’ does not seem conducive to meditative prayer,it also can be a relief from the anxiety that we suffer because of our ‘gift’. After all, we can meditate at a million miles an hour.(LOL) It can also give us a calming cognitive outlet as it were. Place your feelings of despair, anxiety and fear into the hands of your Most Holy Mother. Pray Her Most Holy Rosary devoutly every day. I promise you that it will help you tremendously as it has done for me. My prayers are with you. J+M+J.

 

[grandfather]

I will.

Thank you. I’ll tell him.

Prayer for others is motivated by love, willing the good of the other. It puts us in communion with other souls. It is real, not imaginary. It does not matter that we have never met a person. This is part of the communion of saints, to which you belong.

If there is any communion between souls there is something they share, some glue that holds them together, a bond. The thing that those in the communion of saints share is God’s love. It is the pearl of great price, treasure laid up in heaven.

You may feel desperate at times in your suffering, but you are not alone, because you are loved and you love. You may think you have nothing of value to offer anyone or God, but that is false.

Your mental anguish and suffering is of great value if it is joined to the suffering of Christ and offered to the Father as acceptable sacrifice. He tells us we must take up our crosses and follow Him. There is no other way to heaven.

I once went to a daily Mass at a parish in a nearby city. The priest gave a very good homily. The Mass was at 5:30 PM and was attended by devout people on their way home from work. The priest had just come from a nursing home visiting the elderly and infirm. Many were sick physically, some suffering dementia, loneliness, bedridden or unable to walk without help, or even feed themselves.

The priest said to the congregation that the healthy vibrant people who go out and participate in all the various activities that keep the world working think that what they do is valuable contribution to us all, and those who are being cared for and shut away forgotten in places like nursing homes are no longer contributing things of value.

He said what they are doing is of more value than the healthy ones. Their suffering of every kind is of spiritual value to God, incorporated into that of Jesus for the same purpose He suffered and died.

I happen to believe this and know that what you are going through is of great value in the Body of Christ.

Thank you for praying for our friend in danger. He may end up being a martyr. He needs our prayers and so many others do as well. You are loved, but you also are needed.

Mary help of Christians, pray for us.

 

[nickybr38]

When I was Protestant I used to see different denominations as different body parts… we can’t all be hands or arms or feet…

I used to equate the Salvation Army to the feet of the church, because they were out there doing the work of God VERY visibly, very actively.

I used to equate the Catholic Church to the brain, because even in my anti-Catholic mind I recognized that they had a great deposit of Christian knowledge.

I used to equate the United Church to the heart of the church, because they welcomed ALL… and I do mean all.

I equated the Pentecostal movement to the spirit…

The Baptist to the voice…

etc. etc… and I believed that there were so many different denominations because we were all called to different functions…

However, gradually I began to see that a dismembered body is not functional.

And eventually I recognized that the Catholic Church was the complete body! Not dismembered but whole and entire in one unit.

I think that some people may not fit well in some parishes… and that some people may feel more comfortable in certain rites… but I also think we should never EVER seek our own comfort, our own edification. We should always seek to be part of the one, unified body… even when it’s uncomfortable.

Anyway, that’s my odd response.