Is it possible that we go through Purgatory on earth?

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Hey everyone. Is it possible that we go through Purgatory on earth rather than after death? I mean, a lot of people have a lot of suffering on earth. Isn’t it possible that God accepts this suffering as our purification for our sins and then we don’t have to go through Purgatory after death? If I am wrong on this then please let me know because I do not wish to be unorthodox on anything. If anything I said is unorthodox and then I realize that I will immediately return to orthodoxy.
 
God can purge us on either side of death’s door. As with Purgatory, suffering on earth can prepare us for heaven also as we unite our sufferings to his:CCC#793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, “until Christ be formed” in them. “For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified.”
 
No. Suffering can be offered up for partial indulgences, but we cannot per se go through purgatory on Earth.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. Is it possible that we go through Purgatory on earth rather than after death? I mean, a lot of people have a lot of suffering on earth. Isn’t it possible that God accepts this suffering as our purification for our sins and then we don’t have to go through Purgatory after death? If I am wrong on this then please let me know because I do not wish to be unorthodox on anything. If anything I said is unorthodox and then I realize that I will immediately return to orthodoxy.
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We cannot go through purgatory specifically on earth. Purgatory refers to the suffering after death before heaven. However, we can remit some of our temporal punishment on earth and purify our souls on earth through our suffering. God certainly does accept this suffering for our sins and uses it to purify our souls. Also giving alms and saying prayers has the same effect. If we die with no purification left to do then we do not have to go to purgatory! It is better to suffer here than in purgatory…and lastly we can use this suffering to help the souls in purgatory now
 
TomD123 said:
We cannot go through purgatory specifically on earth. Purgatory refers to the suffering after death before heaven. However, we can remit some of our temporal punishment on earth and purify our souls on earth through our suffering. God certainly does accept this suffering for our sins and uses it to purify our souls. Also giving alms and saying prayers has the same effect. If we die with no purification left to do then we do not have to go to purgatory! It is better to suffer here than in purgatory…and lastly we can use this suffering to help the souls in purgatory now
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Nitpicking here, but almsgiving is only indulgenced when help is given directly to the needy. Of course it’s still virtuous when done through charitable organizations, but it can’t directly remit temporal punishment for sins.
 
Thanks everyone. I may very well be wrong on this issue as well but I have heard that we can offer up our suffering for other people? Is it true that we can offer up our suffering for other people so as to alleviate their suffering? Can we take on other people’s suffering so as to alleviate theirs?

Also, I had no idea that you could get a partial indulgence for offering up your suffering. Is that really true? Can I get that indulgence for someone else? Also, if I offer up the suffering for someone other than myself can I still get the indulgence?

Thanks in advance for offering advice and answers. I just have a lot of questions on my mind lately.
 
Holly3278 said:
Thanks everyone. I may very well be wrong on this issue as well but I have heard that we can offer up our suffering for other people? Is it true that we can offer up our suffering for other people so as to alleviate their suffering? Can we take on other people’s suffering so as to alleviate theirs?

Also, I had no idea that you could get a partial indulgence for offering up your suffering. Is that really true? Can I get that indulgence for someone else? Also, if I offer up the suffering for someone other than myself can I still get the indulgence?

Thanks in advance for offering advice and answers. I just have a lot of questions on my mind lately.
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1- We can offer our suffering in reparation for the sins of others. This helps them through purgatory

2- I’m not sure about the specific partial indulgence…however I do know there are 3 “General Indulgences” and that might be one of them. These are three indulgences the Church grants to general acts.

3- You cannot get an indulgence for anyone who is alive but yourself
devoutchristian said:
Nitpicking here, but almsgiving is only indulgenced when help is given directly to the needy. Of course it’s still virtuous when done through charitable organizations, but it can’t directly remit temporal punishment for sins.
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Almsgiving may only be indulgenced when given directly to the needy however that doesnt mean it only remits temporal punishment when given directly to the needy.
Two separate issues:
  1. Remitting our own temporal punishment- And I think that any form of charitable work does this…why not?
  2. Gaining an indulgence to remit temporal punishment- This is the Church remitting our punishment by applying the Saint’s superabundant acts of satisfaction to us. In this case, yes you are probably correct given that it is up to the Church to decide which charitable acts “count”
 
TomD123 said:
there are 3 “General Indulgences” and that might be one of them. These are three indulgences the Church grants to general acts.
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It is. The three general grants are offering up suffering, helping the poor (directly), and voluntarily abstaining from something licit and pleasing.
TomD123 said:
  1. Remitting our own temporal punishment- And I think that any form of charitable work does this…why not?
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Why would it? There’s nothing in the deposit of faith to indicate that there are other ways for a living person* who has been baptized to remove temporal punishment (Aside from martyrdom of course).

*Obviously, the temporal punishment of a dead person would be removed by its actual expiation.
 
Holly3278 said:
Also, if I offer up the suffering for someone other than myself can I still get the indulgence?
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Note: my answer may seem to contain details that are minute and largely impractical*.

You could choose to apply the indulgence partially to yourself and partially to a soul in purgatory, but the “sum total” so to speak of temporal punishment removed would be the same regardless.

*Impractical in the sense of having little practical effect, not in the sense of being unworkable.
 
devoutchristian said:
Why would it? There’s nothing in the deposit of faith to indicate that there are other ways for a living person* who has been baptized to remove temporal punishment (Aside from martyrdom of course).
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An indulgence is not the only way for a Catholic to remit temporal punishment. Penance after Absolution is the most common way. Prayer, fast and alms are also important. The Mass is as well. It is our job as Catholics to work so that we have no temporal punishment after death.

Here is what Trent says:
Canon 13. If anyone says that satisfaction for sins, as to their temporal punishment, is in no way made to God through the merits of Christ by the punishments inflicted by Him and patiently borne, or by those imposed by the priest, or even those voluntarily undertaken, as by fasts, prayers, almsgiving or other works of piety, and that therefore the best penance is merely a new life, let him be anathema.

Canon 14. If anyone says that the satisfactions by which penitents atone for their sins through Christ are not a worship of God but traditions of men, which obscure the doctrine of grace and the true worship of god and the beneficence itself of the death of Christ, let him be anathema.

Canon 15. If anyone says that the keys have been given to the Church only to loose and not also to bind, and that therefore priests, when imposing penalties on those who confess act contrary to the purpose of the keys and to the institution of Christ and that it is a fiction that there remains often a temporal punishment to be discharged after the eternal punishment has by virtue of the keyes been removed, let him be anathema.

And the Baltimore Catechism:
  1. Q. Which are the chief means by which we satisfy God for the temporal punishment due to sin?
A. The chief means by which we satisfy God for the temporal punishment due to sin are: prayer, fasting, almsgiving, all spiritual and corporal works of mercy, and the patient suffering of the ills of life.

“Chief,” but not the only means. “Fasting,” especially the fasts imposed by the Church-in Lent for instance. Lent is the forty days before Easter Sunday during which we fast and pray to prepare ourselves for the resurrection of Our Lord, and also to remind us of His own fast of forty days before His Passion. “Almsgiving”–that is, money or goods given to the poor. “Spiritual” works of mercy are those good works we do for persons’ souls. “Corporal” works of mercy are those we do for their bodies. “Ills of life”–sickness or poverty or misfortune, especially when we have not brought them upon ourselves by sin."
-Baltimore Catechism 4

My own addition: Each of these was written before the general grants existed
 
Also, this is the second general grant:

“A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who in a spirit of faith and mercy give of themselves or of their goods to serve their brothers in need.”

I see no reason to assume it has to be direct help to the poor. Why would working through a charity not count?
 
devoutchristian said:
Nitpicking here, but almsgiving is only indulgenced when help is given directly to the needy. Of course it’s still virtuous when done through charitable organizations, but it can’t directly remit temporal punishment for sins.
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So to clarify, giving to the church is not indulgenced? Only if someone puts money directly into the hands of the needy? Why is giving to a charitable organization ‘less’ than giving directly? How does this correlate with priests I’ve known in the past who have asked the parishioners not to give directly because there were too many known instances of that money going directly to drugs or alcohol?

What is the source on this? Thanks.
 
holyrood said:
So to clarify, giving to the church is not indulgenced? Only if someone puts money directly into the hands of the needy? Why is giving to a charitable organization ‘less’ than giving directly? How does this correlate with priests I’ve known in the past who have asked the parishioners not to give directly because there were too many known instances of that money going directly to drugs or alcohol?

What is the source on this? Thanks.
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It was in one of the Council of Trent documents, I’ll try to find it. It’s not that giving to charity is less virtuous, but indulgencing such acts led to corruption.
 
Is it possible that we go through Purgatory on earth?

I hate to say this… but… it sure feels like it sometimes 😦
 
I have a few more questions.

Can we offer up our suffering for other living persons? I mean, can we offer up our suffering for their conversion?

If I understand correctly we can offer up our sufferings for souls in Purgatory so as to alleviate their suffering and to shorten their “time” in Purgatory? (I put “time” in quotes because there is no time in eternity.)

Also, in order to remit the temporal punishment by fasting, willingly bearing suffering, and doing the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, must we have the intention of remitting temporal punishment when we do this or does doing these things remit the temporal punishment automatically?

Finally, I love to get indulgences. Therefore, when I wake up and say my morning prayers I tell God that I intend to gain all of the indulgences that I can that day. I know that in order to gain an indulgence one must have the intention of gaining that indulgence. Does making your intention known for every indulgence obtained that day in the morning count or must one make their intention for gaining an indulgence known before each indulgenced act is performed?

I am sorry if this is complicated or anything but these questions have bothered me for quite some time. :o
 
Holly3278 said:
I have a few more questions.

Can we offer up our suffering for other living persons? I mean, can we offer up our suffering for their conversion?

If I understand correctly we can offer up our sufferings for souls in Purgatory so as to alleviate their suffering and to shorten their “time” in Purgatory? (I put “time” in quotes because there is no time in eternity.)

Also, in order to remit the temporal punishment by fasting, willingly bearing suffering, and doing the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, must we have the intention of remitting temporal punishment when we do this or does doing these things remit the temporal punishment automatically?

Finally, I love to get indulgences. Therefore, when I wake up and say my morning prayers I tell God that I intend to gain all of the indulgences that I can that day. I know that in order to gain an indulgence one must have the intention of gaining that indulgence. Does making your intention known for every indulgence obtained that day in the morning count or must one make their intention for gaining an indulgence known before each indulgenced act is performed?

I am sorry if this is complicated or anything but these questions have bothered me for quite some time. :o
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A general intention suffices to gain an indulgence. We can indeed offer up our suffering for the souls in purgatory. We can offer our sufferings up for the spiritual good of other living persons, though not in the sense of remitting their temporal punishment.
 
devoutchristian said:
A general intention suffices to gain an indulgence. We can indeed offer up our suffering for the souls in purgatory. We can offer our sufferings up for the spiritual good of other living persons, though not in the sense of remitting their temporal punishment.
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So in other words, making the general intention each day will suffice? Sorry, I sometimes need simple explanations. I’m rather simple minded. :o:p;)
 
TomD123 said:
An indulgence is not the only way for a Catholic to remit temporal punishment. Penance after Absolution is the most common way. Prayer, fast and alms are also important. The Mass is as well. It is our job as Catholics to work so that we have no temporal punishment after death.

Here is what Trent says:
Canon 13. If anyone says that satisfaction for sins, as to their temporal punishment, is in no way made to God through the merits of Christ by the punishments inflicted by Him and patiently borne, or by those imposed by the priest, or even those voluntarily undertaken, as by fasts, prayers, almsgiving or other works of piety, and that therefore the best penance is merely a new life, let him be anathema.
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Obviously, penances and the like can and often do coincide with indulgences, but I’m pretty sure that only indulgences directly remit temporal punishment in the juridical sense, although obviously prayers and works of piety can speed up the process or reduce the suffering involved.
 
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