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Peepers
Guest
I am curious as to what the Catholic teachings are on this. Can one go to Heaven, if one is a non-Catholic?
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GloriousOrder
Guest
I believe the Church teaches that you may reach Heaven and our blessed Saviour as a Protestant, but only by means of the Catholic Church. This means that you may believe rightly in Christ our Lord, and that you may observe all the pious, faithful practices that make you a Christian, but since the Holy Orders are invalid in your reformed church, you do not receive the sacraments.
Being without the sacraments makes you quite lacking in sanctifying, sacramental grace. The Church says that grace flows entirely from the Catholic Church and no other. God may utilise actual grace (acting on individual people) outside the Catholic Church, because He is God and may do what He wants outside His Body… but the fullness of sacramental, mystical grace and truth are in Catholicism because it has preserved the line from A.D. 33 until now.
When it says non-Catholic Christians may be saved “by means of the Church”, it refers to the Church’s efficacious prayer, the merits of its good works, and its right faith. By the meritorious prayers of the Catholic Mass and the many Catholic sacraments and sacramentals, grace is flooded into the world from the great white throne of light.
All these extremely holy prayers, when “directed at” Protestants, allow Catholics to share the grace given unto them for the love of our separated brethren.
Being without the sacraments makes you quite lacking in sanctifying, sacramental grace. The Church says that grace flows entirely from the Catholic Church and no other. God may utilise actual grace (acting on individual people) outside the Catholic Church, because He is God and may do what He wants outside His Body… but the fullness of sacramental, mystical grace and truth are in Catholicism because it has preserved the line from A.D. 33 until now.
When it says non-Catholic Christians may be saved “by means of the Church”, it refers to the Church’s efficacious prayer, the merits of its good works, and its right faith. By the meritorious prayers of the Catholic Mass and the many Catholic sacraments and sacramentals, grace is flooded into the world from the great white throne of light.
All these extremely holy prayers, when “directed at” Protestants, allow Catholics to share the grace given unto them for the love of our separated brethren.
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KevinJFUm
Guest
This is always a difficult question to answer.
Catholic teaching on this matter is largely derived from Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Romans.
A virtuous life is often indicative of a state of grace, and for those individuals, who have never heard the Gospel and yet live such “holy” lives, salvation is possible. (Remember: a “holy” life as defined by the Magisterium, not self-rationalized goodness.)
This is not completely far-fetched as the Church teaches that people who lived before Jesus CAN have salvation.
Then the question often becomes, “Why become a Catholic then?” or “Why adhere to the Gospel?”
As the above poster mentioned, grace through the sacraments provides spiritual support and strength to abide by God’s teachings.
Frequent confession, for example, keeps us honest and reminds us to abstain from sin.
Holy communion reorients our lives and reminds us of our Lord’s great love and sacrifice.
Here, it is important to note that the Church teaches that we are saved by grace, not by faith alone.
In other words, with the Church, you receive a constant flow of grace from God.
Outside this framework, being in a state of grace is much more difficult.
I am sure that anyone who does not adhere to the teachings of the Church on a regular basis can tell you this.
The stories of Jesuits who often went to rural regions of North America alone also testify to this fact.
Catholic teaching on this matter is largely derived from Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Romans.
A virtuous life is often indicative of a state of grace, and for those individuals, who have never heard the Gospel and yet live such “holy” lives, salvation is possible. (Remember: a “holy” life as defined by the Magisterium, not self-rationalized goodness.)
This is not completely far-fetched as the Church teaches that people who lived before Jesus CAN have salvation.
Then the question often becomes, “Why become a Catholic then?” or “Why adhere to the Gospel?”
As the above poster mentioned, grace through the sacraments provides spiritual support and strength to abide by God’s teachings.
Frequent confession, for example, keeps us honest and reminds us to abstain from sin.
Holy communion reorients our lives and reminds us of our Lord’s great love and sacrifice.
Here, it is important to note that the Church teaches that we are saved by grace, not by faith alone.
In other words, with the Church, you receive a constant flow of grace from God.
Outside this framework, being in a state of grace is much more difficult.
I am sure that anyone who does not adhere to the teachings of the Church on a regular basis can tell you this.
The stories of Jesuits who often went to rural regions of North America alone also testify to this fact.
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SouthpawLink
Guest
A person must belong (in voto) to the Catholic Church in some manner (through divine faith and perfect charity) in order to be saved. A person who doesn’t belong in any way to the true religion cannot be saved.
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kimmielittle
Guest
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cargau
Guest
Absolutely! In Para. 819: “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” (LG 8 § 2) are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements” (UR 3 § 2; cf. LG 15). Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him (Cf. UR 3), and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity” (Cf. LG 8).
Christ instituted the Church as the conduit of grace for the whole world. All graces flow through the Church but are accessible to those outside the Church. Since this is true, one who is knowledgeable of the Truth must be in union with Christ’s plan for salvation.
But,God, through His boundless mercy can save anyone, anywhere. Even atheists who have no foundation in God may be saved.
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odile53
Guest
God’s salvation is not limited to the Catholic Church, but the fullness of grace flows via the Catholic Church.
In a very secular way, I’m curious why one would just nibble at a salad bar if a huge smorgasbord was spread before them! Sure, you can stay alive on the salad bar. But wouldn’t you rather have the prime rib, the potatoes au gratin, and all the rest, too?
Just my stupid way of looking at it.
In a very secular way, I’m curious why one would just nibble at a salad bar if a huge smorgasbord was spread before them! Sure, you can stay alive on the salad bar. But wouldn’t you rather have the prime rib, the potatoes au gratin, and all the rest, too?
Just my stupid way of looking at it.
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Rascalking
Guest
From my understanding, people are saved by the Catholic church even if they don’t know it.
I’m no expert though…
I’m no expert though…
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PattiDay
Guest
’Life’s a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame’
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Zsofia_A
Guest
Exactly…if you live in a country where nobody is Catholic and you had been raised up in different religious views but you live a good life, loving and helping others, not committing mortal sins, then Jesus will save you. At least this is what our priest told us only few weeks ago on my confirmation class
God bless
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ProVobis
Guest
I’m not disagreeing with you but is this true for ex-Catholics?
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cargau
Guest
Of course! But, God knows what is in each of our hearts. It would be wrong to judge the sinfulness of anyone who rejects the Church. Still, it is serious, grave matter to turn away from the Church. Ex-Catholics need our prayers every day…
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Peepers
Guest
Yet, there have been people within the Church (and all churches, not just the Catholic Church), who have sinned against members of the Church. I could see how someone would turn away from the Church after having been hurt by an individual. Would this person then be denied salvation? I hope not.
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cargau
Guest
Me too. That is left to God’s judgment. We are not in a position to judge another’s soul.
Sometimes folks leave the Church in search of God’s light, His truth and His love. Someone within the Church may not have radiated those realities in a very effective way. Thus a journey was forced to take a detour.
I would rather see someone who is sincerely seeking God in all the wrong ways rather than see someone who is ambivelant and apathetic. Seek, and ye shall find…
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Gregory_I
Guest
“Unless a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.”
John 3.
Council of Trent, Session 7, On Baptism, Canon 2:
CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.
In other words, it is infallibly defined that Christ is speaking of real Sacramental Water Baptism, without which none can enter into heaven.
Now, it is possible for a man to be justified by Charity, and Perfect Contrition, and the desire to actually receive sacramental water baptism, but that implies the dispelling of ignorance, and that a person has received the gospel.
Then, that person would be justified. But, if he fell, how is he to be restored if he have not confession? For we cannot make a perfect act of contrition on our own, it is solely GOd’s gift, and for this reason he instituted confession, to help us in achieving union with GOd once broken. How can an ignorant pagan expect to be united to his GOd when he does not seek him, know him, and he has not the means of being restored to him?
Read the COuncil of Trent, ALL of Sessions 5, 6 and 7, and you will see what the Church teaches infallibly on the matter.
It is impossible to achieve salvation in another religion, because other religions do not please GOd, nor do they offer him true worship.
What pleases God ALONE and Exclusively is the Catholic Religion, which HE established, and for good reason.
John 3.
Council of Trent, Session 7, On Baptism, Canon 2:
CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.
In other words, it is infallibly defined that Christ is speaking of real Sacramental Water Baptism, without which none can enter into heaven.
Now, it is possible for a man to be justified by Charity, and Perfect Contrition, and the desire to actually receive sacramental water baptism, but that implies the dispelling of ignorance, and that a person has received the gospel.
Then, that person would be justified. But, if he fell, how is he to be restored if he have not confession? For we cannot make a perfect act of contrition on our own, it is solely GOd’s gift, and for this reason he instituted confession, to help us in achieving union with GOd once broken. How can an ignorant pagan expect to be united to his GOd when he does not seek him, know him, and he has not the means of being restored to him?
Read the COuncil of Trent, ALL of Sessions 5, 6 and 7, and you will see what the Church teaches infallibly on the matter.
It is impossible to achieve salvation in another religion, because other religions do not please GOd, nor do they offer him true worship.
What pleases God ALONE and Exclusively is the Catholic Religion, which HE established, and for good reason.
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cargau
Guest
Really, Gregory. What would you say to a mom who just had an abortion or one that just miscarried?
Trent was counter reformation. It was designed to clearly call out and dispell the heresies that were cropping up everywhere. I don’t mean to suggest that this statement is false, quite the contrary…
The Church has an expanded understanding of the dogma you are referring. For example, the Church teaches that Baptism may be efficacious as a result of desire.
Sr. Faustina says, Jesus, I trust in you… Trust in His divine mercy to save those for whom he has judged worthy of eternal life by the blood of the Cross.
Trent was counter reformation. It was designed to clearly call out and dispell the heresies that were cropping up everywhere. I don’t mean to suggest that this statement is false, quite the contrary…
The Church has an expanded understanding of the dogma you are referring. For example, the Church teaches that Baptism may be efficacious as a result of desire.
Sr. Faustina says, Jesus, I trust in you… Trust in His divine mercy to save those for whom he has judged worthy of eternal life by the blood of the Cross.
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PJM
Guest
YES! But like all salvation it it conditional.
- All salvation by necessity and logically must and does flow through the CC.
Because ALL of the “key’s to the kingdom” [meaning everything that is necessary resides in the CC]
Because Christ Commanded this through the CC [Matt. 28:19-20] ALONE [there were no-other christian faiths or churches when this command was given to the Apostles]
Because in a very real way [Jn.14:16-17; Jn. 17:15-19; 1Cor. 11:23-29] Christ remains in Person in His CC and protects her truths on ALL matters touching Faith-Beliefs and Morals.
Because the Apostles LED BY PETER and his successors alone were given this Mission by Christ.
- Salvation while more difficult; and clearly with GREATER uncertainty can and may still attain Salvation:
The GREAT risk evolves around the forgivness of sin: Christ is extremely clear How he wants and expects it to be accomplished. 1 John 1:8-10; 1 John 5: 16-17 and John 20:19-23 are very clear and very specific.
The Church grants that is certain cases that an act of PERFECT CONTRITION will surfice in this matter. The issue is: 1. What is perfcect? 2. Perfect in whose opinion? Assurance of forgiveness? “Not every one who says to Me ‘Lord; Lord’ will enter the gates of heaven.”
4. Is the issue of “opportunity” to know the singular truth; or lack of opportunity to learn and know of the singular truths. GOD ALONE can make this call. WHAT we do know is opportunity to know; and refusal to accept the truth will be seen by God as refusal to accept His truth.
So while it is possible conditionally; it can be far less of a “certainty” [NO ABSOLUTES even for catholics…but FAR fewer uncertanities].
Cathoic Catecheism:
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
816 “The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.”
The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”
**846 **How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
God Bless,
Pat
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TomD123
Guest
Interestingly, there have been quite a few threads on this recently and some of them have been closed (idk why) but anyway, two quotes:
“As stated above (1, ad 2; 68, 2) man receives the forgiveness of sins before Baptism in so far as he has Baptism of desire, explicitly or implicitly” -St. Thomas
“29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation:” Catechism of St. Pius X
And some other sources
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson12.html
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdffeeny.htm
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bcreed09.htm
Basically, as I understand it, God requires all men without exception to become Catholics, however, those who through no fault of their own are outside of the visible body of the Church can achieve salvation if they unite themselves to the Church by a desire (implicit or explicit). This desire basically means one believes in the essentials to the faith and he/she makes an act of love for God which contains an implicit desire for water baptism.
“As stated above (1, ad 2; 68, 2) man receives the forgiveness of sins before Baptism in so far as he has Baptism of desire, explicitly or implicitly” -St. Thomas
“29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation:” Catechism of St. Pius X
And some other sources
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson12.html
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdffeeny.htm
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bcreed09.htm
Basically, as I understand it, God requires all men without exception to become Catholics, however, those who through no fault of their own are outside of the visible body of the Church can achieve salvation if they unite themselves to the Church by a desire (implicit or explicit). This desire basically means one believes in the essentials to the faith and he/she makes an act of love for God which contains an implicit desire for water baptism.
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TEPO
Guest
NO.
People can achieve salvation in spite of other religions though.
Yes.
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MarkThompson
Guest
It is not wrong to judge actions. It would be incorrect (in the “judge not” sense) to look at a particular person and say, “He committed a murder and is not repentant; he should go to Hell!” But it is an appropriate, and indeed a necessary, moral judgment to say in general terms, “A person who commits murder and never repents is almost certain to go to Hell.”
Thus we can discuss the implications for salvation of deliberately apostatizing from the Catholic Church, without lapsing into judgment of individuals. We are not required to answer “Beats me, I guess it’s up to God” to every question about the morality of actions.
That is not accurate. Many things that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion at all are pleasing to God, such as sacrificing for the benefit of another or loving a person who has been rejected by others. If I and my Protestant neighbor both give our money, or risk our safety, popularity, or good name, in the same way to come to the aid of the poor and lame, one cannot conclude, “What Mark did pleased God, because he is Catholic. But God is altogether indifferent to what the Protestant did.”
Occasionally one runs across the claim, on a board like this one, that it is impossible for God to impart any grace or favor through non-Catholic religion or worship, since those are odious and revolting to Him. That hypothesis seems to be disproved experimentally, however, when we hear reports from people who say, “I used to be an atheist, living a dissipated and heathenistic lifestyle. Then I was invited to join an evangelical church, where I turned my life around and came to love Christ. Eventually, I penetrated so deeply into the Christian mysteries that I realized I had to become a Catholic to live the fullness of the Christian faith – so now I am a proud Catholic convert.” Who are we to say that his first calling to Christ, even into a Protestant church, was not a mercy and a grace of God? Or that his conversion was not, in some measure, pleasing to God?
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