Is it possible to become filthy rich without losing your soul?

  • Thread starter Thread starter stinkcat_14
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

stinkcat_14

Guest
Ok, I admit the “filthy rich” part was a cheap marketing ploy to generate interest in the thread. Anyway, I was listening to NPR yesterday, and they had on Felix Dennis who was basically claiming that if you want to get filthy rich, it will cost you in many ways, including your morals.

Here is the link to the show:

onpointradio.org/shows/2008/06/20080623_b_main.asp

Let’s define filthy rich as over $100 million. Although, if someone has a different number in mind, feel free to give it and defend it.

The problem I had with the main guest is that he was generalizing from himself, which of course is always bad thing. On the other hand being ruthless can be profitable. Also, can you make $100 million plus without being obessively focused towards your work? Is for example, neglecting your family to make money you will never spend, consistent with the gospel?

On the other hand, they had on Rosabeth Moss Kanter, who in my opinion did a very poor job arguing against him. All she did was make a bunch of assertions with no facts to back them up.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Ok, I admit the “filthy rich” part was a cheap marketing ploy to generate interest in the thread. Anyway, I was listening to NPR yesterday, and they had on Felix Dennis who was basically claiming that if you want to get filthy rich, it will cost you in many ways, including your morals.

Here is the link to the show:

onpointradio.org/shows/2008/06/20080623_b_main.asp

Let’s define filthy rich as over $100 million. Although, if someone has a different number in mind, feel free to give it and defend it.

The problem I had with the main guest is that he was generalizing from himself, which of course is always bad thing. On the other hand being ruthless can be profitable. Also, can you make $100 million plus without being obessively focused towards your work? Is for example, neglecting your family to make money you will never spend, consistent with the gospel?

On the other hand, they had on Rosabeth Moss Kanter, who in my opinion did a very poor job arguing against him. All she did was make a bunch of assertions with no facts to back them up.
Click to expand...
I suppose one counterexample (and my favorite) is George Soros. I suppose Karl Popper’s influence on him helped him use some of his money on noble goals. Unfortunately, not all wealthy people are like Soros.
 
buffalo said:
Tom Monaghan
Click to expand...
👍
ribozyme said:
I still think George Soros is a better example.
Click to expand...
Yes, Ribo…we all know you’re enamored with George Soros. 😉

But to the OP, yes, it’s possible but very difficult…easier to fit a camel through the eye of a needle. Think of it…100 million would make one independantly wealthy, and afford a measure of power as well. Very difficult not to let it get to you.
 
Fortunatly, not all wealthy people are like Soros.
Click to expand...
Fixed that for you 😉

His large donations to abortion groups being one of many evils that man supports.
 
Yes, it is possible to become filthy rich without losing one’s soul. If it were not possible, then Jesus would have been a liar.

Read Matt. 19:23-26.

DaveBj
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Ok, I admit the “filthy rich” part was a cheap marketing ploy to generate interest in the thread. Anyway, I was listening to NPR yesterday, and they had on Felix Dennis who was basically claiming that if you want to get filthy rich, it will cost you in many ways, including your morals.

Here is the link to the show:

onpointradio.org/shows/2008/06/20080623_b_main.asp

Let’s define filthy rich as over $100 million. Although, if someone has a different number in mind, feel free to give it and defend it.

The problem I had with the main guest is that he was generalizing from himself, which of course is always bad thing. On the other hand being ruthless can be profitable. Also, can you make $100 million plus without being obessively focused towards your work? Is for example, neglecting your family to make money you will never spend, consistent with the gospel?

On the other hand, they had on Rosabeth Moss Kanter, who in my opinion did a very poor job arguing against him. All she did was make a bunch of assertions with no facts to back them up.
Click to expand...
If one buys a lottery ticket and wins $100 million then yes they have become “Filthy” rich without losing their soul - Yet.

The question would be could they keep from losing it afterwards.

The Problem isn’t the money, it’s the methods of attainment, and the/or the Greed that tempts one who has too much.

Peace
James
 
DaveBj said:
Yes, it is possible to become filthy rich without losing one’s soul. If it were not possible, then Jesus would have been a liar.

Read Matt. 19:23-26.

DaveBj
Click to expand...
What Jesus said is that it is possible to go to heaven. Even for someone who is filthy rich. Now the more relevant question is, can one become filthy rich while remaining in the state of grace? If it is possible, the next question is: is it probable? It could be that these entrepreneurs are so focused on getting wealthy that they ignore what is really important in life. It is certainly a hypothesis that one can find some evidence in support of.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
What Jesus said is that it is possible to go to heaven. Even for someone who is filthy rich. Now the more relevant question is, can one become filthy rich while remaining in the state of grace? If it is possible, the next question is: is it probable? It could be that these entrepreneurs are so focused on getting wealthy that they ignore what is really important in life. It is certainly a hypothesis that one can find some evidence in support of.
Click to expand...
Well, while in my opinion, there have certainly been people who were right out selfish, many million and billionaires turn to philanthropy. Look at the many libraries started by Andrew Carnegie, for example.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
What Jesus said is that it is possible to go to heaven. Even for someone who is filthy rich. Now the more relevant question is, can one become filthy rich while remaining in the state of grace? If it is possible, the next question is: is it probable?
Click to expand...
It is not probable for anyone to achieve a net worth of $100 million. Probably less than 0.01% of the people in this country will achieve that level of wealth.

But that’s not the point. The point is, is such a person likely to be any more immoral than anyone else?

I suggest walking through the poorest part of your city and watching what goes on. Those muggers, dope dealers, drug addicts, prostitutes and so on are not multi-millionaires.
stinkcat_14 said:
It could be that these entrepreneurs are so focused on getting wealthy that they ignore what is really important in life. It is certainly a hypothesis that one can find some evidence in support of.
Click to expand...
Can you show that the rate of crime is higher for people who make more than say, $10 million a year, than for people on welfare?
 
vern_humphrey said:
It is not probable for anyone to achieve a net worth of $100 million. Probably less than 0.01% of the people in this country will achieve that level of wealth.

But that’s not the point. The point is, is such a person likely to be any more immoral than anyone else?

I suggest walking through the poorest part of your city and watching what goes on. Those muggers, dope dealers, drug addicts, prostitutes and so on are not multi-millionaires.

Can you show that the rate of crime is higher for people who make more than say, $10 million a year, than for people on welfare?
Click to expand...
Excellent points Vern!

To be even more specific, I would say that it is probably just as likely (possibly even more likely…I don’t know) for someone in the bottom 50% to “worship mammon” as it is for the top 1%. Wealth is not the issue. Love of money is the issue.

It is also very likely that those who are overly critical of the possibility of the “filthy rich” to be saved are in jeopardy themselves due to envy.
 
vern_humphrey said:
It is not probable for anyone to achieve a net worth of $100 million. Probably less than 0.01% of the people in this country will achieve that level of wealth.

But that’s not the point. The point is, is such a person likely to be any more immoral than anyone else?

I suggest walking through the poorest part of your city and watching what goes on. Those muggers, dope dealers, drug addicts, prostitutes and so on are not multi-millionaires.

Can you show that the rate of crime is higher for people who make more than say, $10 million a year, than for people on welfare?
Click to expand...
This sounds like you expect God to Judge on a curve.

Rich or Poor, immoral is immoral. It’s what is in the heart, not the pocketbook

The greatest commandment is Love. All of the Law and Prophets are based on Love. We are to Love each other as Christ Loved us.
If one can get “filthy rich” while doing this, then they will go to heaven, but since this Love will probably cause them to give it away as quickly as they get it, it’s unlikely they will ever be “Filthy Rich” so…🤷

Peace
James
 
rlg94086 said:
Excellent points Vern!

To be even more specific, I would say that it is probably just as likely (possibly even more likely…I don’t know) for someone in the bottom 50% to “worship mammon” as it is for the top 1%. Wealth is not the issue. Love of money is the issue.
Click to expand...
There could be a sample selection bias however. After all, if you don’t care all that much about money, you probably aren’t going to go through the effort of starting and running a business to get into the top 1%.
It is also very likely that those who are overly critical of the possibility of the “filthy rich” to be saved are in jeopardy themselves due to envy
Click to expand...
The envy card again. My angle is not envy. I personally don’t care how much anyone has. After all, I consider myself to be one of the rich people in the US. I don’t envy someone with $100 million, because I will never spend what I have. In that situation, what good would it do for me to be envious?

However, I think some legitamite questions can be raised, such as:
  1. Can you make $100 million without making money your god?
  2. Can you earn $100 million without losing the humility that Christians should have?
Now, personally I don’t feel guilty for being rich, but I think it is reasonable to raise certain questions as to the potential hazards of the pursuit of wealth.
 
I think it is possible to become filthy rich with out losing your soul. If I start a hedge fund or a bank, it is possible that I could make billions with out losing my soul. It depends on how you treat people.
 
JRKH said:
This sounds like you expect God to Judge on a curve.

Rich or Poor, immoral is immoral. It’s what is in the heart, not the pocketbook

The greatest commandment is Love. All of the Law and Prophets are based on Love. We are to Love each other as Christ Loved us.
If one can get “filthy rich” while doing this, then they will go to heaven, but since this Love will probably cause them to give it away as quickly as they get it, it’s unlikely they will ever be “Filthy Rich” so…🤷

Peace
James
Click to expand...
Exactly. Nobody’s saying that poor folks aren’t sinners.

To me part of the questions if how they got so rich. Did they lie, cheat, lobby and use undue influence? Did they exploit workers or resources? Were they dishonest in intent even if not in deed? Did they operate on good faith? The rich man generally has a lot of power and influence because of his weatlh. He is therefore capable of doing great harm to many in the drive for greater wealth. Greed had led to many a horror. Have you heard the story about what happens when you put the world’s richest people in a room with all the money in the world? It’s not enough. Greed seems to feed on itself in many cases. Money is more important than people - and once you get there anything is possible. 😦
 
stinkcat_14 said:
There could be a sample selection bias however. After all, if you don’t care all that much about money, you probably aren’t going to go through the effort of starting and running a business to get into the top 1%.

The envy card again. My angle is not envy. I personally don’t care how much anyone has. After all, I consider myself to be one of the rich people in the US. I don’t envy someone with $100 million, because I will never spend what I have. In that situation, what good would it do for me to be envious?

However, I think some legitamite questions can be raised, such as:
  1. Can you make $100 million without making money your god?
  2. Can you earn $100 million without losing the humility that Christians should have?
Now, personally I don’t feel guilty for being rich, but I think it is reasonable to raise certain questions as to the potential hazards of the pursuit of wealth.
Click to expand...
  1. Yes.
  2. Yes.
Now, why does it concern you so much? If you personally have no interest in building a business that earns $100 million, then I don’t see what possible importance it has for you. 🤷

If you are interested in building a business that earns $100 million, then you should be able to assess your reasons for wanting to do it and, therefore, whether you would “lose your soul” in the process.

One thing that can and does happen: people start a business because it is their particular interest and their way to make a living. It then becomes wildly successful and they earn $100 million. The money may not have come from greed, but rather from success. No problem there that I can see, unless you believe that business success = losing your soul.

I think we all need to assess our attachment to material things - rich, poor or “middle class.” You consider yourself to be “one of the rich people in the US,” which I find quite interesting. You picked $100 million, I’m guessing, because to you that is “filthy rich.” Guess what? Someone with much less money than you could ask the same question about whatever level of wealth you have. Have you lost your soul in the process of becoming “rich?”
 
Is it possible to not be filthy rich and not be considered lazy for it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top