Is it possible to conceive of God?

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andyklein

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Do our minds have the ability to conceive of the concept of an utterly perfect, all-powerful, omnibenevolent being like God?

I’m asking this because if we cannot, then it seems that my Cartesian mindset would be invalidated?
 
We may not be able to fully grasp who God is in our finite state, that’s true. But our perceptions of God have no effect on God or his attributes, if that’s what you’re asking. 🙂
 
**andy

Do our minds have the ability to conceive of the concept of an utterly perfect, all-powerful, omnibenevolent being like God?**

We can conceive of such a God. You just did! We just cannot know this God per se.
 
andyklein said:
Do our minds have the ability to conceive of the concept of an utterly perfect, all-powerful, omnibenevolent being like God?

I’m asking this because if we cannot, then it seems that my Cartesian mindset would be invalidated?
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No…any idea of God is infinitely less than God. Just as any idea of you is infinitely less than you.
 
The mystical understanding of God is complete. That is to see God through his own eyes is to fully see God.
 
So let me propose that we can conceive of the concept without understanding the full nature of God. Epistemologically speaking, then, only our mental faculties and not any impression from experience allow us to conceive of God. But this concept is merely a definition, so any knowledge of God’s nature is a priori.

Any objections?
 
Pax Christi!

Yes, it is possible to conceive of God. Our Blessed Mother did it!

God bless!
 
**andy

But this concept is merely a definition, so any knowledge of God’s nature is a priori.

Any objections? **

Agreed, with one reservation. We can know God better by Revelation than by pure Reason. We can know God through Christ far better than we can know God a priori. The apostles knew God in the person of Jesus Christ. They were trul blessed.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**andy

But this concept is merely a definition, so any knowledge of God’s nature is a priori.

Any objections? **

Agreed, with one reservation. We can know God better by Revelation than by pure Reason. We can know God through Christ far better than we can know God a priori. The apostles knew God in the person of Jesus Christ. They were trul blessed.
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Indeed, they were blessed, I agree. Of course, as Our Lord told St. Thomas: “Blessed are those who believe who have not seen.” We too can know Christ through his Spirit, in his Church, in the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist and in prayer. So, we are not deprived of his presence. Although, I’m sure you didn’t mean to suggest that we are. 🙂
 
We can participate as our capacityfor grace allows

Abandonment to Divine Providence Jean-Pierre de Caussade

… SECTION III.—The Work of our Sanctification.

All you who strive after perfection and who are tempted to discouragement at the remembrance of what you have read in the lives of the saints, and of what certain pious books prescribe; O you who are appalled by the terrible ideas of perfection that you have formed for yourselves; it is for your consolation that God has willed me to write this. Learn that of which you seem to be ignorant. This God of all goodness has made those things easy which are common and necessary in the order of nature, such as breathing, eating, and sleeping. No less necessary in the supernatural order are love and fidelity, therefore it must needs be that the difficulty of acquiring them is by no means so great as is generally represented.

Peace
 
meltzerboy said:
I understand the analogy, but the conception of G-d by a finite mind is infinitely more complex than the conception of another human being.
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By that I would say you do not understand the oneness of all that is.
 
andyklein said:
Do our minds have the ability to conceive of the concept of an utterly perfect, all-powerful, omnibenevolent being like God?

I’m asking this because if we cannot, then it seems that my Cartesian mindset would be invalidated?
Click to expand...
To know this God in an immediate way which can completely satisfy our minds can come only as a gift from Him, as per the Beatific Vision where that knowledge will be given fully.
Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1 Cor 13:12
 
meltzerboy said:
Panentheism is also part of Hasidic Judaism and Kabbalistic thought.
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Then why would you assert that the conception of G-d by a finite mind is infinitely more complex than the conception of another human being?
 
tskrobacz said:
Then why would you assert that the conception of G-d by a finite mind is infinitely more complex than the conception of another human being?
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To my thinking, our understanding of a fellow human being is easier than probing the complexities of the Creator of the universe. Even if one takes into account revelation and guidance by means of the Holy Spirit, how much about G-d can we really know, has grace allowed us to know and understand compared to the understanding of our own species? And although G-d may interpenetrate our own being as well as mundane aspects of our behavior (I’m not too keen on Kabbalah philosophy or Hasidism), the mind of G-d still remains a great mystery to us, given our human limitations.
 
meltzerboy said:
To my thinking, our understanding of a fellow human being is easier than probing the complexities of the Creator of the universe. Even if one takes into account revelation and guidance by means of the Holy Spirit, how much about G-d can we really know, has grace allowed us to know and understand compared to the understanding of our own species? And although G-d may interpenetrate our own being as well as mundane aspects of our behavior (I’m not too keen on Kabbalah philosophy or Hasidism), the mind of G-d still remains a great mystery to us, given our human limitations.
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As the Catholic mystic’s say…to few it is given to understand that everything remains to be understood. I believe it is beyond us to understand the infinity of the creator and therefor the infinity of the created…
 
Can we know anything about the external world as our senses pereceive it?

Take for instance the Eucharist. If you believe it is the Body and Blood of Christ, then your knowledge of the external world cannot be relied upon. You can’t rely solely upon sense-perception to truly acquire knowledge of the external world. This still doesn’t mean that you can’t conceive of other beings as finite as yourself in the flesh. If you can conceive of yourself a priori, then you could possibly conceive of other beings like yourself.

So it seems that our conceptions of ideas are not bounded by our own mortality. Does it follow that we can then conceive of greater things than ourselves, like God?
 
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